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#449846 - 10/11/13 12:24 PM Just so angry
tbkkfile Offline


Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 154
Loc: Surrey, United Kingdom
Well where do I start - life long hater of anything related to religion, confirmed atheist.......

My anger was my wall, my friend, my protection, it was something that I could hide behind, just another side of me trying to self destruct I guess, I could direct it at the things that I blamed.

But I'm exhausted being angry, and lately now that I've started down this road of healing, there's a little more room in my life for a few chinks of light to enter and against everything that I believe in or don't depending on your view I'm feeling drawn to question my non belief.

So guys what to do now
_________________________
Go back?" he thought. "No good at all! Go sideways? Impossible! Go forward? Only thing to do! On we go!" So up he got, and trotted along with his little sword held in front of him and one hand feeling the wall, and his heart all of a patter and a pitter

J.R.R.Tolkien, The Hobbit

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#449872 - 10/11/13 07:21 PM Re: Just so angry [Re: tbkkfile]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 838
Loc: Kc,Mo
I am right along with you on the religion thing . I can not stand religious people the people that have their own idea of what everyone one else should or should not be doing according to their own interpretation. I will not hound you with just come to Jesus stuff . I will however say start out with prayer and see where it takes you . I can only say that I can only tell you what works for me and if that does not work for you that is cool. If at some point what you are doing is not working for you and you want to know what is working for me i will be more than happy to share. Respectfully always is the key we can agree to disagree is the way i like to say it . It is ok to disagree on things just do not be disagreeable.



I like your quote by Carl Sagan by the way , really feeling that
Good luck
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-uYCAfpxrY
TRIGGER WARNING
Video of me telling my story
you are not alone never were
WRITTEN FORM
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=339159#Post339159
Why i hate Religion but love Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

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#449876 - 10/11/13 08:50 PM Re: Just so angry [Re: tbkkfile]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6376
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Well...my testimony is out there for all to see, but the religious people re-hurt me, but never once have they pushed me away from my faith. i have no faith in mankind except that it will always be sin-based and evil. We are never told in the Bible to "have faith in our fellow man." We are told our fellow man is sinful and wicked...and the Bible is right...without exception, the Bible is right.

We have evidence ALL around us that man is filth and nasty and wicked...horrid. There are so many testimonies to the wickedness of man, I can';t watch ANY local news as I get sick.

Surely, (Shirley) there HAS to be something other than what we see and hear is real...every day. We see and KNOW that mankind is total sh*t, but many have a hard time seeing the opposition.

I'll be blunt: I think atheism is a high regard of man...faith in man and a religion of and for and by man. Atheism has boundaries and limits. No one can define the same atheism from person to person. But atheism is not a void. Its not a vacuum. Its a set of disbeliefs. Said disbeliefs seem to get replaced with many things OF this world, like porn, booze, money, self, a 2002 Lamborghini in pearlecent white and elkhide seats.

I look to NO religion for anything except certain folly. I look to my faith in Christ for all things true, right and good.
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#449877 - 10/11/13 09:45 PM Re: Just so angry [Re: tbkkfile]
newground Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 749
Loc: michigan
hey tbk
I think that you might get a lot out of a book called "the problem of pain" it is old written by C.S. lewis who wrote a LOT of good stuff btw. it is a little complex but it talks about pain and his take on it. it is from a christian perspective though not so much about religion. I have always tried to just be open to whatever understanding I can have though I believe there are things I will never be able to understand and that irks me. in the end I do believe in God and I think he can be known, I think I have tended to disagree with him a lot about things in my life and yet I still feel he loves me... go figure??? I guess dont understand a LOT lol
_________________________
Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee. let me then tow to pieces, while still chasing thee, thou damned whale! Thus, I give up the spear!"
Herman Melville

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#449901 - 10/12/13 06:35 AM Re: Just so angry [Re: tbkkfile]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 326
Loc: Southeast USA
The chapter o the agnostic is very simple, very good. It is in the AA big book, but a great read.

I was so anti religious when I joined AA, I would not read it for almost 3 years smile

Still not into big organized religion, except for enjoying Christmas shows and choral things on holidays. A departure from my rock and blues steady diet.

Reading it gave a different perspective I could work with.
_________________________
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.

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#449929 - 10/12/13 12:13 PM Re: Just so angry [Re: tbkkfile]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1626
Loc: Minnesota
Welcome to MaleSurvivor-

Being willing to question your positions and seek information is a sign of progress.

I relate to having a defensive wall built up around me until a few chinks opened up and I sought out some answers. Those answers seemed to make some sense (the chapter "To Agnostics" in the AA Big Book is a classic.
_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

“It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#449948 - 10/12/13 03:50 PM Re: Just so angry [Re: tbkkfile]
Jacob S Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 592
Originally Posted By: tbkkfile
Well where do I start - life long hater of anything related to religion, confirmed atheist.......

My anger was my wall, my friend, my protection, it was something that I could hide behind, just another side of me trying to self destruct I guess, I could direct it at the things that I blamed.

But I'm exhausted being angry, and lately now that I've started down this road of healing, there's a little more room in my life for a few chinks of light to enter and against everything that I believe in or don't depending on your view I'm feeling drawn to question my non belief.

So guys what to do now


It's good to recognize our anger and be in control of it. As long as we are angry at someone or something, that person/thing has a certain amount of power over us.

Just remember that hating religion and believing in it aren't the only two options. You can deal with your emotions about it and be at peace with it and still not believe it is true.
_________________________
Like a spent gladiator
crawling in the colosseum dust
who can count on his remaining limbs
all the people he can trust.
Like the one who stands behind him
cheering him on
Estatic when he stands defiant,
wild with abandon when he's gone

just stay alive.
do whatever you need to.
you are worth it.

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#449961 - 10/12/13 05:06 PM Re: Just so angry [Re: tbkkfile]
BuffaloCO Offline


Registered: 07/14/12
Posts: 415
Loc: USA
Believe or don't believe, it's up to the individual. I'm ok with that. What I am not ok with is when someone else says "I will define how you may believe."
_________________________
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.” - Plato

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#449989 - 10/12/13 09:12 PM Re: Just so angry [Re: BuffaloCO]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6376
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: BuffaloCO
Believe or don't believe, it's up to the individual. I'm ok with that. What I am not ok with is when someone else says "I will define how you may believe."


Yeah...we're all gonna have a bitch of a time with Islam...yeah...
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Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

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#449994 - 10/12/13 10:26 PM Re: Just so angry [Re: tbkkfile]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3139
Loc: O Kanada
i was in the same situation when i turned 50.
this is what worked for me.

even though i am a skeptic doubter and a backsliding hypocrite,
i still highly recommend reading the bible (EVERY DAY) and private prayer (AS REQUIRED SEVERAL TIMES A DAY) and fellowship with other like-minded seekers of truth (TWICE A WEEK).

keeping these habits for the last few years has improved and benefited my life and relationships immeasurably.
(and believe me, i hated god and religion.)

i really don't care if it's true anymore.
i don't care that it doesn't make any sense.
i just know that it works.
for me.
and i hope it can work for you or others.

my anger and fear have mostly disappeared.
as a result, my behaviour has become much more manageable.
no drug has ever done that for me. ever.
no therapy or self help system has worked as well.

that is all i can tell you.
contemplating supernatural and spiritual matters has provided me with a long-overdue inner peace.
after a lifetime exploring and studying
the available choices out there, (i even tried to invent and create my own religion a few times) i prefer the collections of books known as the bible, especially the gospels and prophets.

there is timeless wisdom there.

hope this helps.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#450010 - 10/12/13 11:45 PM Re: Just so angry [Re: tbkkfile]
mattheal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 142
Loc: Ohio
For what it's worth, my personal disbelief in ANYTHING supernatural is based on reason and my own experiences. I think we as survivors are often forced to examine our own lives once we are ready, and I can't imagine any of ones beliefs/disbeliefs that stem from anger and hatred will last very long if one is truly being honest with themselves. I think both sides clearly show that belief or disbelief and hate are not mutually exclusive.

I like what Mark Twain had to say about man's journey for truth:

"We are always hearing of people who are around seeking after truth. I have never seen a (permanent) specimen. I think he had never lived. But I have seen several entirely sincere people who thought they were (permanent) Seekers after Truth. They sought diligently, persistently, carefully, cautiously, profoundly, with perfect honesty and nicely adjusted judgment—until they believed that without doubt or question they had found the Truth. That was the end of the search. The man spent the rest of his life hunting up shingles wherewith to protect his Truth from the weather. If he was seeking after political Truth he found it in one or another of the hundred political gospels which govern men in the earth; if he was seeking after the Only True Religion he found it in one or another of the three thousand that are on the market. In any case, when he found the Truth he sought no further; but from that day forth, with his soldering-iron in one hand and his bludgeon in the other he tinkered its leaks and reasoned with objectors."
_________________________
It's okay to find the faith to saunter forward
With no fear of shadows spreading where you stand
And you'll breathe easier just knowing
that the worst is all behind you
And the waves that tossed the raft all night
have set you on dry land
- The Mountain Goats - "Never Quite Free"

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#450309 - 10/16/13 12:58 AM Re: Just so angry [Re: tbkkfile]
tbkkfile Offline


Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 154
Loc: Surrey, United Kingdom
Religion sure is an emotive issue, but thanks to everyone for giving me their perspective both here and via PM's its really appreciated and has helped greatly.

I feel the need to explore this further but face to face with someone and will let you know how I get on.

Thanks to everyone again
_________________________
Go back?" he thought. "No good at all! Go sideways? Impossible! Go forward? Only thing to do! On we go!" So up he got, and trotted along with his little sword held in front of him and one hand feeling the wall, and his heart all of a patter and a pitter

J.R.R.Tolkien, The Hobbit

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#450335 - 10/16/13 10:25 AM Re: Just so angry [Re: tbkkfile]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3139
Loc: O Kanada
i tend to go by the "work in progress" ideal.

belief is a working model of truth.
it is like a map i am continuously fashioning out of the wilderness in which i wander.
the map is NOT the territory!

absolute truth is beyond the grasp of any mortal's lifetime.
belief is only a temporary and efficient arrangement of axioms.
as new facts emerge, the belief system must be updated and upgraded.
no functional belief system should contradict the facts.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#450346 - 10/16/13 12:00 PM Re: Just so angry [Re: tbkkfile]
tbkkfile Offline


Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 154
Loc: Surrey, United Kingdom
Well said Victor

Quote:
no functional belief system should contradict the facts.
_________________________
Go back?" he thought. "No good at all! Go sideways? Impossible! Go forward? Only thing to do! On we go!" So up he got, and trotted along with his little sword held in front of him and one hand feeling the wall, and his heart all of a patter and a pitter

J.R.R.Tolkien, The Hobbit

Top
#450379 - 10/16/13 06:05 PM Re: Just so angry [Re: tbkkfile]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3139
Loc: O Kanada
the only problem is,
1 don't have all the facts, and
the ones 1 have keep changing.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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