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#449514 - 10/08/13 10:13 AM Open Question
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6317
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
So I sit here with 4 shattered or minimally injured lives:

-Daughter
-Son
-Ex-wf
-my life

Why? Because I was totally screwed and screwed-up from CSA and domestic violence.

THINKING about ME, I crawled out of the tar-pits.

THINKING of ME, I learned to emulate real people.

THINKING about what I WANTED, I matriculated into white-collar business through faking freakin everything.

WANTING what I WANTED, I tried to act enough like a real person and married a normal.

Our (my family) happiness was predicated upon my ability to maintain the mask. I could not. Reality became apparent to all. I failed 3 people directly and dramatically.

So around here, we like to say "its not your fault;" which I fully agree. It was not the child's fault if we were manipulated, used, forced, groomed, etc. I am FULL agreement with that. Its the PERPS' fault!!!!!

So why can't my ex-wf and kids say the same fkg thing about ME? That Still ruined our lives by not being what and who he was. By thinking he could fake his way through life...by thinking he could not tell anyone...by deceiving ex-wf!!!
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#449516 - 10/08/13 10:27 AM Re: Open Question [Re: Still]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1248
Loc: kansas
still,

will be sending you a pm to give you my thoughts on this.
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#449520 - 10/08/13 10:52 AM Re: Open Question [Re: Still]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 269
Loc: Southeast USA
I think 'normal' people just can't get into our frame of reference for life. And they should be happy they can't.

Wishing there was no collateral damage is like wishing water not ripple when a rock is dropped in a calm pond.

I think possibly they may benefit from adult child type groups. If you feel you were unable to parent them as you feel would have been best, maybe they could be helped.

It has helped me.
_________________________
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.

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#449580 - 10/08/13 07:15 PM Re: Open Question [Re: Still]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 636
Loc: NJ
We all wear masks. Life makes us do that. That's how we protect ourselves. Only some versions of "life" are harder than others. And the masks start to pile up, until the person breaks under the weight.

It is not your fault. And it is not their faults. Collateral damage sucks. It just does. What makes it worse? Beating yourself up over it. I believe in making meaningful amends to people we have hurt. They may or may not see the value, that's their experience. And your ex comes with her own baggage, baggage that may keep her from understanding. That is also NOT your fault.

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#449631 - 10/09/13 07:02 AM Re: Open Question [Re: Esposa]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6317
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: Esposa

It is not your fault. And it is not their faults. Collateral damage sucks. It just does.


Well that's a quality quote! And yes, it makes sense here in church, but step through the big double doors, and the street-thugs are still gonna whoop-yo-ass.

Originally Posted By: HER
"You people are like unlabeled uranium. Wherever you go, people get burned. And I was with you for 18 years, so my life is spent and burned."


That is her position and the opinion of "her people." I never knew that all the love and relations could just vanish (rifle dropped and soldier running away) at the first sight of s#*t.

She and her people were always very big on assigning blame. The blame for/of any diversity whatsoever would become a near-tangible...like a horse...which they would commence to beat.

She divulged her position on CSA many times through the years of marriage, actually stating (while watching the TV news) "if they find that child, she'll be better-off dead." "Really? WHY" I would challenge. "Well duh...she'll be SO fkt-up, her life will be hell."

My interpretation of things like the dropped-rife, blame-game and dead girl walking was that "dang...I am right! I will take my childhood-hell to the grave."

I am very comforted by connecting with my child self. Its better than valium or pixy-dust. Its truly amazing...but its also hugely isolating.
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#449649 - 10/09/13 09:42 AM Re: Open Question [Re: Still]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 636
Loc: NJ
Still - you made me smile as I remembered a day early on when I said to my husband "I guess I missed the warning label" - It's a natural response for someone who is playing the victim (as I was at that time). I am sorry.

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#449650 - 10/09/13 09:43 AM Re: Open Question [Re: Still]
sugarbaby Offline


Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 306
I struggle sometimes with blame. Do I blame his offender for everything? Do I blame H for his actions after he was 30? After 35? After 40? After 45?

His abuse was when he was 8 so.......at what point does he become responsible for his actions? I don't know the answer to that.

His offender was a juvenile and from the sounds of it also a CSA victim.....so do I blame him? Do I blame his parents? I don't know the answer to that.

When the dust settles in my head I split blame. Some things are the offender and some things are on H. That takes a lot of thought and talking though......otherwise the pendulum swings from one to the other.

It sounds like maybe your W had some preconceived notions and so she was not so open to learning more about it.

I'm not even so sure I need to find a home for blame......I guess that comes from frustration about the situation.

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#449658 - 10/09/13 10:59 AM Re: Open Question [Re: Still]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 269
Loc: Southeast USA
this blame thing is for score keeping.

On when and where there is a line? I am 53 and have not until this year been able to understand how I had such a conflicted inner self.

In a very thick shell, hiding and in control, was that 8 year old abused child. I was ashamed I could even think and act out some of the crazy crap I did. For assigning blame, I out it all on myself. But that placing of blame built a prison for my soul.

Once I realized, white light moment, that I was not to blame, and that i could grow and mature in my thinking...the inner child started to grow. It has been a while but I am not ruled by a hurt child now.

There is blame for the problems I caused, sure. But that is a separate thing. I can deal with that as an adult, more, kinda... Work in progress. But my wife and I are working together and moving forward.

The old self blame of the CSA perpetuated the trap. Removing that blame started fixing the bad behavior.

My wife was desperate to see progress to keep her hope alive. It was tough at times. I remember just laying in bed and softly crying, and she rubbed my back and let me get it out.

But blame is a funny thing. It is about grace more than anything to me. I really do believe the god of my understanding gave and gives my wife grace to love me despite my issues.

I know it and treasure her for it. I know I am guilty on many counts. I try and not add to the list. I am also thankful she has worked so hard to let so much of it go. It is the key to a happy future in my opinion.

All of the patient significant others are truly amazing people.
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#449666 - 10/09/13 11:44 AM Re: Open Question [Re: sugarbaby]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6317
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
****TRIGGERS**** invisible ink

Originally Posted By: sugarbaby
His abuse was when he was 8 so.......at what point does he become responsible for his actions?


Howard Stern (Still spits on ground) is very fond of one of his great "truths of life." He verbalizes on occasion: "If it were not for Fathers molesting daughters, we would not have strippers and whores."

As much as I hate the pig, he's right. He's right!!!

I suppose we could put out a Public Health message that survivors "ought not, as there's a good chance you'll ruin tangential lives," but I would Still deny, deny, deny.

I denied it at 11-yo when a surgeon and a nurse stopped mid-conversation and went silent during a rectal exam...they put the hospital shrink on me for 5-days. They asked "what's going on back here...has someone been.... Deny, deny, deny...twas all I did. Fortunately, I was already known as a boy of VERY few words, so remaining mum was not a big concern for her.

(why did I just say "Fortunately")

A battalion of marriage counselors, pastors and relationship Ts all (ALL) came to the same conclusion: "Still...there's no other explanation other than CSA." Deny, deny, deny.

<invisible Trigger Ink --- just highlight to read>
Hiding the truth. Hiding the emotional pain. Hiding the societal pariah-hood. Hand-washing the briefs and hiding them to dry. Hiding that at 14 I was Still sucking my thumb. Hiding that at 8, I was masturbating and reaching dry orgasms at-will. Deception becomes a key tool in survival for a long, long time for many of us.
_________________________
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Still's Globs

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#449668 - 10/09/13 12:33 PM Re: Open Question [Re: Still]
sugarbaby Offline


Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 306
I think sometimes what I want to do is blame society for not having an open and honest conversation about the abuse of males. The problem with that is that I cannot do anything to change that because I have to keep his secret. The secret keeping interrupts my avenue for expression, which leads to frustrations, which leads to anger (and blaming), and at this point, depression for me.

His offender was IMHO also abused and he went on to be a serial abuser. Is he then not responsible for his actions? I think at some point, regardless of his abuse, he is in fact responsible for his actions.

I think my husband, in some areas, is in fact responsible for his actions. Is most of it his fault....no, he was a victim FIRST and foremost just like all of you guys. No, it is not your fault. It is not....your.....fault. YOU guys are VICTIMS FIRST.

It gets very complicated on the spouses end though, at least for me. I guess that is what I'm trying to say. It's complicated for you guys in ways I cannot imagine. All I know is my end of my particular circumstance though and, emotionally, it gets very complicated.

The things that get better are always the things he will really dig into and explore and talk to me about. The things he cannot explore remain complicated/raw, and frustrating, and ....etc. Open wounds I guess. I am a woman of 1,000 questions though so it is not easy on him.

I like your posts. They make me think.

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