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#448992 - 10/02/13 01:30 PM Questioning rather it was abuse *Maybe Triggering*
Zero Offline


Registered: 09/24/13
Posts: 35
Loc: Tennessee
Hello all,

I am struggling quite a bit with rather or not I was sexually abused as an adult or not. I have a lot of feelings of guilt and shame and honestly lately this has bothered me more than my CSA I experienced. Its like everyone I talk to has a different opinion, my best friend doesn't believe I was abused and that I consented a long with other people. However, I have just as many people saying I was abused so I am very confused at this point. I would like to post the facts and see what everyone on here feels it was.

The facts are, I met an older women (48) in a psychiatric hospital when I was 20 and we shared contact information. Afterwards she said she wanted to be my friend we hung out with each other. The whole time I was oblivious to the fact she wants a sexual relationship. She finally tells me she wants a sexual relationship and I guess I was actually okay with the idea at this point; I really don't know how I felt about it, I just brushed it off. The next few times I seen her she acted very sexual around me and we set up a date and time to have sex. Up until this point I guess I consented but here where things take a turn for the worse. She picks me up and I am obviously shaken at the idea of sex but never expressed a verbal disinterest. The older woman noted I was "tense" and offered me drugs and alcohol.

Drugs included marijuana and ecstasy and I drank maybe 4-5 beers. I was moderately drunk but you have to remember it was the first time drinking so my tolerance was low, same with the marijuana and ecstasy. Anyway she takes me to hotel and begins to come on to me sexually and I resisted very little before cooperating. I felt horrible during the sexual experience, I wanted to say no but I didn't for some reason. I felt like it was too late for me to change my mind seeing as how she already paid for the hotel and a part of me felt too impaired to disagree with anything.

My friends believe that because I didn't say no, I consented and I can't help but feel the same way. About the only thing that makes me feel like I was raped was the fact that she offered me drugs but did not do them herself. The guilt is overwhelming, I feel horribly guilty because I knew ahead of time she wanted sex but still didn't end the relationship. I feel ashamed in the fact I didn't say no despite feeling such a strong urge to voice my true feelings.

Was this sexual abuse or did I consent like my friend said?

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#449000 - 10/02/13 03:06 PM Re: Questioning rather it was abuse *Maybe Triggering* [Re: Zero]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 916
Loc: New York
You might not have been in the right mind to consent, given your need to be in a psychiatric hospital and the behavioral impacts of the earlier childhood abuse. It is also possible to consent to something without true willingness - to more or less give up - which clouds the picture of what "consent" is supposed to mean. And in all cases, it is possible and understandable to regret something that was consensual, possibly to the point of damage.

If you can't decide whether or not it was abuse, this may be because the foreknowledge and expectation of sex was very clear between the two of you beforehand. The encounter definitely played into your weaknesses - you seem to have felt pressured to go along with it and are offended and disturbed that mood-altering substances were involved.

Having said all that...

Every now and then, a guy will post here about a sexual experience with an older woman (it is ALWAYS an older woman) in which he went along with it but felt unable to say no - out of consideration for her feelings, out of longing to have straight sex after being abused by males, or because prior abuse had left them without a grasp that they ever could deny physical access to an older stronger person. And in all such cases, the guy says: "I don't know how I feel about this. It wasn't explicitly bad but I wasn't in my right mind and she took advantage of me. How should I respond? Should I feel worse? Should I prepare myself to feel worse someday - is it headed my way?"

There is enough blatant, riveting pain and anguish in the life of an abuse survivor that you don't need to go hunting to amplify more instances. If it doesn't actually feel so bad, assume that it offended your dignity more than anything else and don't try to "make it hurt" more than it already does.


Matt
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#449028 - 10/02/13 11:02 PM Re: Questioning rather it was abuse *Maybe Triggering* [Re: SoccerStar]
Zero Offline


Registered: 09/24/13
Posts: 35
Loc: Tennessee
Originally Posted By: SoccerStar
You might not have been in the right mind to consent, given your need to be in a psychiatric hospital and the behavioral impacts of the earlier childhood abuse.


I was in a psychiatric hospital for a mild form of autism and I have a history of suicide attempts.

Originally Posted By: SoccerStar
If you can't decide whether or not it was abuse, this may be because the foreknowledge and expectation of sex was very clear between the two of you beforehand. The encounter definitely played into your weaknesses - you seem to have felt pressured to go along with it and are offended and disturbed that mood-altering substances were involved.


I guess I went along with it because I valued my relationship with the older woman. Having autism I never really had a friend before and I didn't feel like a peer to her as much as viewing her as a authoritative figure. I would have done anything to be accepted, included drugs which I never did before that point.

Originally Posted By: SoccerStar
Every now and then, a guy will post here about a sexual experience with an older woman (it is ALWAYS an older woman) in which he went along with it but felt unable to say no - out of consideration for her feelings, out of longing to have straight sex after being abused by males, or because prior abuse had left them without a grasp that they ever could deny physical access to an older stronger person. And in all such cases, the guy says: "I don't know how I feel about this. It wasn't explicitly bad but I wasn't in my right mind and she took advantage of me. How should I respond? Should I feel worse? Should I prepare myself to feel worse someday - is it headed my way?"


I related to all the reason listed here really, I did it for her benefit more than mine. I don't feel like I could have said no because like I said I viewed her as an authoritative figure.

Originally Posted By: SoccerStar
There is enough blatant, riveting pain and anguish in the life of an abuse survivor that you don't need to go hunting to amplify more instances. If it doesn't actually feel so bad, assume that it offended your dignity more than anything else and don't try to "make it hurt" more than it already does.


Like I said this incident bothers me more than my CSA oddly. The feelings of guilt and shame are huge, I don't think I am making it hurt more than it does. It already hurts a great deal.

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#449032 - 10/03/13 12:12 AM Re: Questioning rather it was abuse *Maybe Triggering* [Re: Zero]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1585
Loc: New England
Hey Zero,

From your description, it does not sound like you were interested in sex with this woman, but went along with it A) because she was older and you felt you couldn't say no; B) because you valued her friendship and feared losing that by rejecting her. As the situation progressed, you felt increasingly bad about it, but believed you couldn't stop it.

On that basis, you were certainly in a vulnerable position with her, and were coerced into sex. The fact that you did not say no, or put a stop to it, does not mean it was your fault. You were understandably reluctant to do so. The fact that you still have such bad feelings about the experience suggested that it was damaging in the same ways that rape and CSA are.

So whether you call it rape, CSA, ASA or whatever else, the fact remains that you were coerced into sex that you did not want, and were deeply hurt by it. Consider letting go of the need to attach a label to it, and just work on getting well.

Jude
_________________________
Can't be bothered with sorrow
And I can't be bothered with hate, no, no
I'm using up the time but feeling fine every day
That's why I'm telling you
I just want to celebrate another day of livin'
Rare Earth

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#449623 - 10/09/13 01:05 AM Re: Questioning rather it was abuse *Maybe Triggering* [Re: Zero]
Tyr Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 180
Zero your view of a person in authority is a 48 year old woman with some kind of psychiatric past? Forgive me for being honest I am a bit skeptical.

You were young but you were an adult. She made it clear that she wanted sex, you were younger and had hormones. no force or coersion was involved. you chose to use alcohol and certain drugs. She didnt "drug" you or force herself on you and hold you down. She didn't even manipulate you.

If a guy did all that to a woman and say bought lobster instead of a hotel room the hidden message and social subtext is sex is going to probably happen and she may or may not have been hot or a "MILF" but you had a bad lay with an older woman. Chalk it up to experience and move on and be more "MINDFUL" of the bag of tricks older women might try to use to get a young studly buck.

If you reallly felt you were abused by her I am sorry you feel that way and hope you heal in your own time. But you were have a psychiatric history and you are clearly competent and well spoken and can make your needs known. as a guy who was indeed raped by a person in your autism spectrum and who purposefully over drugged me to try and have sex with me almost as a corpse, i will say that i am not transferring my views of autism on you either. my best friend has aspergers and people tell me i might have it since i can be cold and aloof though i doubt it.

if you let a women buy oyu drinks drugs and a hotel, expect that she probably wants sex dude.
_________________________
Once you hear the details of victory, it is hard to distinguish it from a defeat.

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#449628 - 10/09/13 04:53 AM Re: Questioning rather it was abuse *Maybe Triggering* [Re: Zero]
Tyr Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 180
it honestly sounds like your remorse is coming from superficial reasons. like maybe she wasnt that "hot" ? even taking psych stuff out of this. i hate to be blunt what would a 48 yr old woman and 20 yr old male have in common. some of those relationships work great but in this context she was forward about what she wanted. you consented to chemicals that made oyu less inhibited i am struggling to see an abusive angle.
_________________________
Once you hear the details of victory, it is hard to distinguish it from a defeat.

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#449669 - 10/09/13 01:02 PM Re: Questioning rather it was abuse *Maybe Triggering* [Re: Tyr]
Zero Offline


Registered: 09/24/13
Posts: 35
Loc: Tennessee
Originally Posted By: Tyr
Zero your view of a person in authority is a 48 year old woman with some kind of psychiatric past? Forgive me for being honest I am a bit skeptical.

You were young but you were an adult. She made it clear that she wanted sex, you were younger and had hormones. no force or coersion was involved. you chose to use alcohol and certain drugs. She didnt "drug" you or force herself on you and hold you down. She didn't even manipulate you.

If a guy did all that to a woman and say bought lobster instead of a hotel room the hidden message and social subtext is sex is going to probably happen and she may or may not have been hot or a "MILF" but you had a bad lay with an older woman. Chalk it up to experience and move on and be more "MINDFUL" of the bag of tricks older women might try to use to get a young studly buck.

If you reallly felt you were abused by her I am sorry you feel that way and hope you heal in your own time. But you were have a psychiatric history and you are clearly competent and well spoken and can make your needs known. as a guy who was indeed raped by a person in your autism spectrum and who purposefully over drugged me to try and have sex with me almost as a corpse, i will say that i am not transferring my views of autism on you either. my best friend has aspergers and people tell me i might have it since i can be cold and aloof though i doubt it.

if you let a women buy oyu drinks drugs and a hotel, expect that she probably wants sex dude.


Originally Posted By: Tyr
it honestly sounds like your remorse is coming from superficial reasons. like maybe she wasnt that "hot" ? even taking psych stuff out of this. i hate to be blunt what would a 48 yr old woman and 20 yr old male have in common. some of those relationships work great but in this context she was forward about what she wanted. you consented to chemicals that made oyu less inhibited i am struggling to see an abusive angle.


You have valid points, I guess thats why I feel I don't belong because I don't. I can't explain why, I was more afraid during this encounter than I was when I was molested at 12. I was afraid to say no to both sex and the drugs for some reason and that is why I am ashamed. Honestly the only thing I can say your wrong about is the superficial reasons. I was indifferent as to rather the woman was attractive.

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#449677 - 10/09/13 02:50 PM Re: Questioning rather it was abuse *Maybe Triggering* [Re: Zero]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 916
Loc: New York
Not to get too personal but, was this your first time? Because it's normal to have some amount of fear, maybe a lot, in that circumstance. Sometimes people can get shocked back into the realization that THERE IS ANOTHER PERSON ALL OVER YOU. Humans are very large animals, larger than just about everything that ever lived, and having one all up in your personal space can be startling if you're not used to it.

Also, as I'm sure you're aware, many people on the autism spectrum are highly touch-sensitive and easily agitated. Plus the alien factors of not knowing her so well, getting drunk / high for the first time.... it can leave you with more negative emotions than positive ones.

You were a consenting adult, but you now regret it. Those are not antonyms. It is entirely possible to regret, and have legitimately awful feelings about, a consensual and undamaging sexual encounter.

Look at it this way: you paid your entry fee for the roller coaster, and your head whipped around too hard and you got bruised up by it. The roller coaster operator wasn't aiming to hurt you and you are in no way benefited by thinking he did. You are still allowed to feel bad about it.
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#449757 - 10/10/13 09:46 AM Re: Questioning rather it was abuse *Maybe Triggering* [Re: Zero]
blacken Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 1285
Loc: Northern Ohio
This Topic has been Locked for Moderator Team Review on 10-9-13

PM the ModTeam http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showprofile&User=3049 if u have questions
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it would think it was stupid all of it's life.
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