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#449463 - 10/07/13 09:03 PM why is sex still so hard for him...
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 357
Seriously, it has been almost 4 years. Why is sex still so hard for him? So much performance anxiety, sexual dysfunction..........why? Years of therapy, treatment and 12 step so why??

I feel like it is getting better than it isn't...I hope I don't sound unfeeling but after all the above, he still doesn't have an answer as to why all the ejaculation issues. If he still doesn't know, how wwill we ever get past this?

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#449466 - 10/07/13 09:23 PM Re: why is sex still so hard for him... [Re: lucylives]
CruxFidelis Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
It's been 4 years since my rape happened and I still haven't been able to even try with my wife. We did try once, before I told her, and I couldn't get it up. It just didn't work. At least he is trying. That's a huge step. I can't even go there with my wife yet, even though I know she is a survivor and we had a fulfilling intimate sex life before.
_________________________
“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

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#449467 - 10/07/13 09:40 PM Re: why is sex still so hard for him... [Re: lucylives]
CruxFidelis Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
I have tried getting things to work with Cialis, going to the doctor is incredibly hard for this sort of thing. Even the cardiologist or pulmunologist is not fun but below-the-belt stuff is particularly hard to sit through and talk about with a health professional. He knows about the rape and also the injury that part of my body went through, and did reconstructive surgery on it to correct some of the damage. He is really compassionate about the whole thing and I've gotten to feel safe working with him. But even getting to this point has taken a long, long time.

It's also tough because the mind and the body are so interconnected. I can't tell you what your husband is feeling because no two survivors are alike, and his reasons for performance anxiety might be wildly different from mine. But it's impossible for the body to cooperate when the mind is full of fear and self loathing, and it's also impossible for the body to cooperate with the mind, if there are physical reasons why a man cannot have sex. The brain is also a sexual organ and trauma re-wires the brain and all its associations with sexuality.

It has to be hard waiting 4 years. I know it is a deep source of pain for my wife, and I do wish I could do something but it has nothing to do with her. It is nothing personal.
_________________________
“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

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#449474 - 10/07/13 10:26 PM Re: why is sex still so hard for him... [Re: lucylives]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6353
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Not once was I with my wife (sex) when and where I was not getting done by them. Its a permanent part of my brain. I really don't see standard T fixing that.
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#449498 - 10/08/13 08:34 AM Re: why is sex still so hard for him... [Re: lucylives]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
Lucy,

You have posted in the past that your husband sometimes is aroused by and masturbates to the memories of abuse, then absolutely hates himself afterwards. If he can't untangle sexuality from exploitation, or if he sees his approaches / contact with you as being like what the perps did to him ("I'm seeing her like they saw me, this right here is how they felt, how did they choose what to touch first...") then it can be horribly nauseating and emasculating.

Are there levels of intimacy of which he is capable - backrubs, hugging? You are an equal partner in this relationship and you have basic human needs too.
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#449517 - 10/08/13 10:28 AM Re: why is sex still so hard for him... [Re: lucylives]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1893
Loc: durham, north england
Ouch sockerstar! were you watching my nightmare last week? that is so accurate it's frightening.

@Lucy, I don't know how it is for your husband, but for me with my genophobia, the very concept even divorced from anything else is something disgusting, soemthing that just makes me want to curl up and freeze.

Here is how your post looked to me:

Title

Why is "drinking from a toilet" so hard?

Seriously, it has been almost 4 years. Why is "drinking from a toilet" still so hard for him? So much performance anxiety,
"Disgusting" dysfunction..........why? Years of therapy, treatment and 12 step so why??
I feel like it is getting better than it isn't...I hope I don't sound unfeeling but after all the above, he still
doesn't have an answer as to why all the "freeze and let it happen" issues. If he still doesn't know, how wwill we ever
get past this?

I don't say this to make you feel guilty or upset. I am hear, I chose to read your post and to answer, and I am aware of my reactions even if I don't like them. I'm just trying to illustrate the complete and total phenomonal backlash that abuse can cause in a given subject.

I can understand your question and I can empathise with your feelings of frustration, but the idea of s/x being something desired, something good is just alien to me. Heck, I even find it hard to actually conceive! of s/x as something to "perform at" together, like playing a duette, since for me it's always something done to me or, (in my worst nightmares), something I am afraid I'll do to another person.

Physical closeness and intimacy, hugging, holding hands, kissing, that I can conceive of ina communicative and good way, indeed I often feel a desire for that sort of thing, but anything more is just disgusting! I'm fairly sure this is soemthing I could change with the right person, but it'd be changing an entire concept. Indeed for me at least physical responses are completely and absolutely apart from mental ones, (one of the most profoundly horrible experiences of my abuse was how my body responded completely differently to my mind).

I'm not trying to say it's impossible, I certainly don't think that, indeed I'm fairly certain it's something I could over come if I ever actually found someone who loved me enough to want to try, but it'd be a complete reversal.

As I said, I really hope this isn't too negative, it's not intended to be, it's just an attempt to illustrate just how profoundly different even the concept of such things are to me, ---- and maybe to your H as well.

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#449583 - 10/08/13 07:40 PM Re: why is sex still so hard for him... [Re: lucylives]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 357
"But it's impossible for the body to cooperate when the mind is full of fear and self loathing"

Crux, I think you may be on to something there. This is what happens from wahat I gather from him.

We start messing around....h gets aroused, thoughts to past abuse come into his mind as well as past acting out behaviours which were reenactments of the abuse, and then bam. Self hatred, feeling like a perv because it excites/excited him, guilt, and fear that he isn't a "normal" man. That he is less than. At least that is how I understand it from what he has said. So every one of your comments were on in one way or another.

still, I agree. I think they are always there in our bedroom with us.

Soccer, he has said he feels like a perp sometimes when we are doing it.

And Drk, I think I get what you are saying but maybe not. I am not offended whatever you say so don't worry. This is my truth, this is my life so if someone hasn't been on my side of it, they can't possibly know how I feel so I wouldn't take any offense personally anyway.

But what the heck does drinking from a toilet have to do with anything?? wink I am thoroughly confused.

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#449591 - 10/08/13 08:12 PM Re: why is sex still so hard for him... [Re: lucylives]
CruxFidelis Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
I think I also agree with Still in that this never does go away and it is hard for it to ever not be part of your sex life.

When I first started a physical relationship with my wife, it was a slow go. Took a really long time for her to feel comfortable holding hands, hugging, kissing, being kissed... much less having sex. Probably a good thing in a way because we were teenagers, lacking any kind of moral principle that would prevent one from having premarital sex... and our parents (like most Baby Boomers) had resigned themselves to the idea of their teens getting into sexual relationships. Even my conservative Jewish mom handed me a bag of condoms telling me that if I was going to do anything to at least "be safe."

But with my wife, we had to think about a completely different kind of safety first. It had to be particularly hard for her because she had been abused by an older male and I was male too. whereas my wife bears no physical resemblance to the guy who raped me (which is why it's even MORE confusing to me why I'm the one who's been holding out on sex for 4 years).

Eventually, we both finished college and got married, and sex became a really fulfilling part of our marriage. But I had found out that she has dissociative identity disorder and can switch between various fragments of herself when in different situations which I think allowed her to mentally "shift gears" between parts so she didn't have to feel traumatized... which is also really hurtful to think about... the idea that I, as a sexual partner, could have been triggering and retraumatizing for her.

Sometimes I find myself saying that I wish my son had a playmate and she'll say, "You know how that works, right?"

"Yes," I'll say. "But we keep drinking from the same coffee cup and nothing happens."
_________________________
“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

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#449593 - 10/08/13 08:20 PM Re: why is sex still so hard for him... [Re: lucylives]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
My wife has patiently waited over 24 years.
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the story
    https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

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Alta - September 2012
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#449600 - 10/08/13 09:15 PM Re: why is sex still so hard for him... [Re: lucylives]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 326
Loc: Southeast USA
I will be a bit different in opinion.

I had non-violent abuse. And maybe that is a factor, I think it is. I was groomed by an older teen at 8 and was his understudy I thought. But we know where that went.

I became hyper sexed as is well documented in cases. My only issue is occasionally remembering an act in a certain position. I question myself as to why I like it. It is an intrusive thought that sometimes can make the train jump the tracks once a month or so. It happened last week after nothing for a month. Talking here and remembering has actually probably made me remember it more.

The wife and I have a Saturday morning date for sure unless one of us is sick to have an extended time together. Getting her outfits and all. It was about getting not only used to it but making it playful instead of work or threatening. Now after years, it is looked forward to.

We are all different and our reactions seem all over the map. I can completely see how someone with violent abuse may feel fear or horror.

Love and support are like healing balm. My wife loves me dearly. I know she is happy with however our time together ends up on a particular night. And that seems to help. If it happens cool, if not, then that is fine too.

The measure of true intimacy is not an orgasm. We always enjoy wether it happens or not. It took a little while to get there. I do believe the type of abuse plays a part. I only know what happened to me.

I hope you find the intimacy you seek.
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I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.

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#449608 - 10/08/13 09:52 PM Re: why is sex still so hard for him... [Re: lucylives]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: lucylives

We start messing around....h gets aroused, thoughts to past abuse come into his mind as well as past acting out behaviours which were reenactments of the abuse, and then bam. Self hatred, feeling like a perv because it excites/excited him, guilt, and fear that he isn't a "normal" man. That he is less than. At least that is how I understand it from what he has said. So every one of your comments were on in one way or another.

still, I agree. I think they are always there in our bedroom with us.

Soccer, he has said he feels like a perp sometimes when we are doing it.



If it has been 4 years, a switch-up of therapists is likely necessary. Also, the antidepressant Wellbutrin has the very pleasant side effect (to me anyway) of hypersexuality - it is the ONLY antidepressant now on the market free from sex-impeding side effects and in fact it goes the opposite way. Some other meds are real chemical cock-blocks.... Zoloft in my experience is the absolute worst, the most frightening in the thoroughness of its deactivation.

At the risk of seeming vulgar... there may be options of exploring avenues of physical intimacy that don't require him to "perform." Sex toys are used just as much by people with physical or neurological challenges as by the bored and kinky. If there is a certain level where he IS comfortable and then a threshold where he ISN'T - use that threshold to introduce some accessory. You could agree on which of you would be controlling its use, or take turns. He could stay at the level of his own physical involvement where he is excited and "good" and then you could get more fulfillment.

I hope that wasn't offensive - I deliberately posted it publicly and not via PM, despite its sensitive nature, because this IS a problem that many many couples deal with and it is a potential threat to the relationship. Creative approaches can avoid traditional "shutdown" triggers while making clear that your needs are validated and met.

My wife was seriously nauseous from a really bad pregnancy - I went 14 months with utterly no intimacy whatsoever. Nothing. Not even a helping hand on my birthday (which btw she forgot). It puts you in a very bad place - my nervous breakdown absolutely would not have happened had that part of my life been normal. So I am very sympathetic to the wives out there and, to be frank, I also believe there is a difference between "acting out" and getting the essentials of life from outside a marriage that isn't providing it. If your spouse gets jaw cancer, you don't also have to go on a liquid diet along with them.


Matt
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My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#449609 - 10/08/13 09:56 PM Re: why is sex still so hard for him... [Re: lucylives]
newground Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 741
Loc: michigan
lucy I wrote this for my wife not long after I started here http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...3356#Post393356
it was to help her understand what it in my head at times maybe it will help ... it is really hard to explain but I hope it helps
Jeff
_________________________
Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee. let me then tow to pieces, while still chasing thee, thou damned whale! Thus, I give up the spear!"
Herman Melville

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#449639 - 10/09/13 08:01 AM Re: why is sex still so hard for him... [Re: lucylives]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 357
OTF, the thoughts of why liking it and then jumping the tracks sound like him exactly.

Mark, 24 years? Yikes.

Soccer, he refused antidepressants and being that he is a sex addict, wellbutrin is out of the question.

Which brings up a whole other thing.......when acting out anonymously and with prostitutes it didn't seem to be as much as a problem. Probably because he could reenact the abuse and not feel like he is tainting them as they were already tainted to be doing that crap with him anyway.

As for the toys, I have no problem with that but I don't want sex to be about just getting off which is what toys feel like to me.

Newground, thanks for that. I am going to print that off for him. I think that is a lot of it. Tainting me. Which is why I think it was okay when acting out. He was only tainting himself and his partners which were the walking wounded, possibly below him in his mind. Already tainted.....

I hope that above paragraph didn't sound offensive and snobby.

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#449643 - 10/09/13 08:50 AM Re: why is sex still so hard for him... [Re: lucylives]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1893
Loc: durham, north england
@Lucy, I appologise if my rewording was confusing, I just wanted to illustrate the point that the meaning of even the concept of s/x to an abuse surviver can be such a different and alien thing to how it is for anyone else.

To me, just at the point in my development when I should! have been gently exploring s/x as a teenager as something at least fun, at most an expression of actual love and intamcy, it was given a different meaning. I actually can't even imagine circumstances of being naked with another person and not freezing or feeling that sense of disgust, the memory of that humiliation, even reading the word is a slightly dirty concept to me, like the thought of drinking out of a toilet.

This is why I've never looked for a prostitute or similar, though I admit I have a morbid curiosity. I mb (actually probably more often than I should), but that is to take care of the matter and hopefully stop myself from having nightmares, since for me all! s/xual dreams are nightmares simply because! they are s/xual.

As I said this is something I could imagine fixing with another person, but it'd take a lot of work, indeed when I think! about the sort of relationship I would like to have, the most physical intimacy I imagine is kissing, since anything else is just, ---- well bad!

Of course, I am genophobic, and that isn't really something I can fix without! someone tto fix it with, and as far as I can gather complete and total genophobia isn't quite as common among survivers, indeed I find Crux' comment about his mum somewhat ironic given how for me if anything my! mum has pushed me in the direction of finding a s/xual partner, making s/xual jokes in my hearing and once even offering to find me a prostitute "to fix things"

Really, if I didn't think it'd have serious medical effects and likely profoundly change my singign voice I'd considder full medical castration, since I do not like having a libido, particularly one as active as mine appears to be.

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