Newest Members
BCtejas, JHNebraska, mike42069, JACKL, Personman
12491 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
mrwhiskers (25), SouthernLaw (41), TerryT (61)
Who's Online
1 registered (1 invisible), 12 Guests and 6 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12491 Members
74 Forums
64159 Topics
447734 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#449267 - 10/05/13 09:24 AM Re: was it r- - - or not? TRIGGERS? [Re: traveler]
Rich1967 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 289
Loc: PA
Lee,

You are so strong and brave. Thank you for that and I'm glad you are doing better.

[ And why was this the worst event? I guess there was physical pain - but there was pain during the beatings, too. But this combined the pain and the sexual abuse. And I think the fact that there was penetration made it more of a violation than other acts. ]

In my own story I am coming to terms with the amount of shame of penetrating myself with objects FOR my abuser. I put that stuff in my story because I knew I was deeply ashamed about it. I really didn't have a clue how ashamed I was till these last couple of days. I agree that there is something about it being inside you that makes it worse and much harder to talk about.

Your wife obviously loves you so I bet she will be very supportive, but I know it won't be easy. That means it will probably be healing though.
_________________________
Rich

"Me too" - I don't think I will ever get tired of saying or hearing these two words.

My Story:
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=441625#Post441625

Top
#449417 - 10/07/13 12:00 PM Re: was it r- - - or not? TRIGGERS? [Re: traveler]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3513
Loc: somewhere in Africa
Thanks, Rich. As you know, it helps so much to hear that someone else gets it.

The thoughts that are helping me right now :

Its kind of like getting a diagnosis of a mysterious ailment. It may be bad news - but at least now I know what I'm dealing with and have a better idea how to proceed.

It may change my thinking and feelings - but it does not change who I am. It is in the past and whatever effect it had - there is no new damage that can occur at this time.

Knowing this does not make me worse or weaker or more damaged. If anything, it means that I was stronger and more resilient and more resourceful to have survived even more than what I had originally realized.

It is all part of my story and I become more complete and whole by accepting it as what is real and what I cannot change.

Lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


Top
#450776 - 10/21/13 09:48 AM Re: was it r- - - or not? TRIGGERS? [Re: traveler]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3513
Loc: somewhere in Africa
NO MORE MINIMIZING!

I went to The WoR this past weekend at Hope Springs in Ohio. What a life-changing experience! I think most of us went in terrified and trembling. But the atmosphere created was so safe and accepting and protective and growth–inspiring and nurturing that within a couple hours most of us were relaxing, opening up and willing if not eager to become more transparent and vulnerable – to be seen, heard, understood and validated. By the time we left, many of us did not want to say goodbye. Acceptance and brotherhood and solidarity and mutual esteem and belonging feels so great! It was truly transformational for me. I can’t say enough to praise the process, the facilitators, my fellow participants, the facilities and the results.

One of the biggest take-aways I got was learning not to minimize. One of the facilitators in my small group gently but firmly challenged us to stop downplaying “what happened to me” as a boy. First we all had to learn not to say that – but to use the words that expressed the truth of the situations and acts. And then I needed to stop using “weasel words” that skirted around the issues or qualified or rationalized or minimized or left room for doubt or dismissal. It was hard – but liberating and empowering to say it - in all the ugly, loathsome, unvarnished, raw reality.





TRIGGERS AHEAD!







An “AHA!” moment:
I was very calmly and objectively and typically self-deprecatingly talking about how the step-dad’s use of the hairbrush handle and enema tube to penetrate me was “almost like a rape” – and my facilitator called me on that – and I tried to rationalize and explain it away – and heard myself say – “it wasn’t like a *normal* rape.” And the significance of that phrase – the inappropriateness of using that adjective with that noun – absolutely shocked me and electrified me and jolted me out of the self-induced numbness that I have had all these years. For the first time in my life I was able to connect with and express ANGER about what HE DID TO ME! this may seem like more of a DUH! moment to some of you who have lived with long-term anger as a constant in your lives – but to me it was earth –shaking and new and a revelation. Suddenly I shouted – “FUCK! THERE IS NOTHING *NORMAL* ABOUT ANY OF IT! IT IS ALL PERVERTED AND WRONG!” I didn’t need to continue a lengthy rant or get into physical demonstrations or expressions of the anger. It was like once I owned that truth – I could accept the truth that all my feelings and the effects I have suffered are justified and not the result of my own weakness.

So – here is a list of affirmations – not the typical nice, positive, encouraging ones that you usually hear – but what I need to know and believe:

What the step-dad did to me was brutal and angry RAPE with foreign objects and it was INCEST.

The experience at scout camp at the hands of older and bigger boys was not initiation or hazing or a circle jerk or mutual masturbation - but forcible ABDUCTION, and GANG RAPE using their hands on me, instead of asses or vaginas.

The teasing and ridicule by classmates in the school locker room was systematic and daily and intentional arousal, voyeurism, humiliation and TORTURE.

The “fondling” by a sales clerk in a menswear shop changing room when I was in my teens was actually MOLESTATION and OBJECTIFICATION and DEHUMANIZATION that recreated and triggered all the abuses that had gone before and did just as much damage because of my already fragile condition.







END TRIGGERS





Strangely – I feel so much stronger and healthier and more whole after getting that out. I would have expected it to have had the opposite effect.

It wasn’t just those statements – but the entire weekend that made a profound effect upon how I view myself and others and how I will conduct myself from now on both internally and externally.

By the way – during the WoR there were also moments of enjoying good food, the beauty of nature, music, relaxation, playfulness, joy, jokes, exhilaration, cameraderie, quiet contemplation and lots of “ME TOO!” epiphanies. it was all good.

LEE


Edited by traveler (10/21/13 11:03 AM)
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


Top
#450798 - 10/21/13 11:41 AM Re: was it r- - - or not? TRIGGERS? [Re: traveler]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
Wow Lee this is so good to hear, I love that "weasel words" phrase, it covers so much people say.

I'm glad you have a concept for what happened to you which actually matches the traumer.

Top
#450804 - 10/21/13 12:22 PM Re: was it r- - - or not? TRIGGERS? [Re: traveler]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3513
Loc: somewhere in Africa
thanks, Luke.

some of it - the scouts and school stuff - sounds like what was done to you - but for me it was all done by males. but i think the experiences were similar enough for me to really value your comment as coming from someone who truly gets it.

"I'm glad you have a concept for what happened to you which actually matches the traumer"

that is a big part of it. now i can think and feel that i DESERVE to think and feel the way i always have - and now i can work on rejecting those thoughts and feelings of unjustified suffering rather than just trying to deny or hide or repress them. the cause and effect finally match up and are appropriate.

here's to stamping out "weasels"!!! KILL the little insidious buggers!

LEE
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


Top
#450806 - 10/21/13 12:30 PM Re: was it r- - - or not? TRIGGERS? [Re: traveler]
DavoSwim Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 336
Loc: Iowa, USA
Lee

This is really valuable stuff you have written about. This is something I'm guilty of myself, minimizing what happened. It took guts for you to write about your weekend and your experiences of abuse. Thank you. I hope it helps your healing. It is helpful to other survivors to read it. Congrats

Dave

Top
#450816 - 10/21/13 01:56 PM Re: was it r- - - or not? TRIGGERS? [Re: traveler]
don64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 820
Loc: St. Croix, USVI
hi lee. the "weasel words" and minimizing is timely for me to hear now. i'm just now putting the pieces together about early abuse from my mother. i began remembering the abuse from my father 11 years ago and began remembering my mothers abuse 5 months ago. my father raped me more than once. i don't know how many times. my mother systematically tortured me into submission as a sexual toy for her. your minimizing and "weasel words" comment has helped me to put some words to my feelings. If my father was a psychotic bull, my mother was a professional assassin. It's the first time i have been able to start putting appropriate words to what they did to me. thank you. don
_________________________
Divine Law is not judgment or denial of self truths. Divine Law is honoring harmony that comes from a peaceful mind, an open heart, a true tongue, a light step, a forgiving nature, and a love of all living creatures. Jamie Sams & David Carson, Medicine Cards

Top
#451015 - 10/22/13 08:58 PM Re: was it r- - - or not? TRIGGERS? [Re: traveler]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3513
Loc: somewhere in Africa
Dave & don -

keep at it. you will be glad you did. the payoff is definitely worth it!

LEE
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


Top
#451055 - 10/23/13 07:10 AM Re: was it r- - - or not? TRIGGERS? [Re: traveler]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
Your talk about weasels reminds me of a wonderful scene from the game of thrones books, in which a very stern and quite loud military commander sees one of his aides, ---- a fairly shy young man, standing with his mouth open obviously wanting to speak but to afraid to.

"My mother told me that if I stood with my mouth open a weasel was likely to mistake it for his hole and scurry in! so if you have something to say say it, ---- otherwise, beware of weasels!" laugh.

I do suspect our experiences were in some way similar, though with me boys were principly involved in the violence and exposure end of things while girls did the s/xual himailiation, and one of the interesting facts about mine is that though it went on at school with increasing frequency for close to three years between the ages of 12 and 15 (though the tampon incident happened when i was 15), I could never!tell anyone. There was an insane paradox about the experience. At one and the same time I felt completely and utterly alone with it, at the other I was certain it was all perfectly normal, that my brother (who went to a different and far better school), had exactly the same things done to him.

Even when i was 15 and some of the violence and insults came out due more to my using any excuse possible to skip school and having my mum pretty much force the truth out of me, (two months before I left), and my parents nearly pulled me out of school, the s/xual stuff was still something I didn't talk about or even think about particularly.

The thing that still bothers me is if I were female, either someone would've stopped it, ---- since even in that particular group and ethos there were things that were too extreme to do to girls, if just because they'd get the perpetrators jailed. Even if not, I'd have had all the cultural bounderies and sense of physical protection on my side to be able to admit it more easily than I actually did, after all girls in our society are still taught! that they are owed protection from bad touch, s/xual harrassment etc.

Heck, this was even used against me during my abuse, since when, (at the age of 13), I punched a girl in the chest (given her position at the time it was the easiest thing to reach), she told a teacher and I got a very stern talking to about "not touching girls there even by accident" (I said it was an accident).

Of course I do know there are plenty of women who are intimidated, confused or terrified into silence about sa, which is quite another matter entirely.

It's thinking about these sorts of concerns and just how wrong the language we use is that actually makes me want to write about my own abuse and the experience in a very public, serious and absolutely academic way, after all I'm a qualified ethicist and it's a major part of the tradition of ethics to redefine the language we use to think about ourselves, (I've just finished a thesis redefining disability).

The problem is I'm simply afraid to try, since I dread to think how terrible some of the stuff I'd have to read for the researching of such a paper, much less a book would be, both in terms of just making me furiously and absolutely angry (I remember how my so called introductory lecture on the ethics of s/xuality was), and because quite frankly with my genophobia such things would be painful to read when considdering my own experience.

Maybe I'll have the courage to do it in the future, I hope so because it does need doing and as with my deffinition of disability it's something I am circumstantially in a position to be able to do where many other people aren't.

Top
#451072 - 10/23/13 09:30 AM Re: was it r- - - or not? TRIGGERS? [Re: traveler]
Bretty Offline


Registered: 10/12/13
Posts: 1
Loc: Australia
Hello. I'm a survivor of a decade of sibling sexual and other abuse. Or in other words, repeated and prolonged encounters of human rights abuse, violations to my integrity, rape, indecent assault and so on.

Criminal law is equivalent to a public law - a crime so serious that society (via the police) should intervene to prevent it from happening. E.g. Rape, indecent (sexual) assault, physical assault, emotional abuse (harassment and bullying).

These are far from trivial, they are very serious. What you men are talking about is someone committing an 'act' and 'crime' against your "INALIENABLE HUMAN RIGHTS". It makes me feel like crying when I read those words 'inalienable human rights' because to people like us they seem ridiculous based on our experiences.

Your step-dad penetrating you with a hair brush is the crime of 'rape' and indecent assault with an object, someone touching your genitals against your will is 'indecent assault' even if for a moment. What you men have experienced is at the serious end of crims and human rights violations and abuses.

Some other lawful things you might like to consider:
'Law of Torts' (private 'unlawful' wrongs - as opposed to public 'unlawful' wrongs (crimes)). Any person can take legal action (sue) another person for tortious (wrongful) conduct per below:
1) Tort of Assault - someone physically threatening another person, causing them to believe imminent contact will occur; even if it doesn't occur. Includes someone making threats of violence, motioning that they are going to hit you or even just telling you they will hit you and you believe it. Punishable by damages (money)! This is unlawful!
2) Tort of Battery - someone physically touching you (the slightest unwelcome purposeful touch will do) against your will. Includes unwelcome touching anywhere on your body, includes punching, touching with objects and so on. Punishable by damages! This is unlawful!
3) Tort of False Imprisonment - someone physically restraining you to a geographical location or holding you against your will. Includes stopping you from being able to escape from a room, car or other area or physically pinning you or physically restraining you. Punishable by damages! This is unlawful!

Most countries also have some form of human rights laws and are members of the United Nations Human Rights treaties.

There are so many laws that people have broken when they abused us its abhorrent. Some are classed as crimes and some as wrongs, but all are absolutely unlawful. So in my opinion these things that occurred to you and me are terrible, absolute violations of our human rights, they attacked our most basic and personal dignity, violated our inherent integrity, interrupted our right to be happy, overpowered us, manipulated us and made us feel and think we were less than even them (them being abusers).

I'm outraged at the stories I continually hear, here. How dare they!

You are much more, we are so very much more. Believe in your inherent self worth you great and wonderful human beings. The violations done to you are a big deal, and they have caused us many struggles as a result. If you find yourself downplaying that, think of the words 'inalienable human rights'.

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.