Newest Members
JayNL, Robert Barrett, lostsoul824, beatcook, MassGuy
12279 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
melnjams (42), rage (27)
Who's Online
5 registered (sadclown, don64, 3 invisible), 22 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12279 Members
73 Forums
63188 Topics
441842 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 12 of 15 < 1 2 ... 10 11 12 13 14 15 >
Topic Options
#434849 - 05/16/13 01:28 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: reality2k4]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1390
Loc: California
This is simply not true.

41 years old, devout christian as a child. Thrown to the wolves, neglected, ignored, bullied, and then developed homosexual feelings against my own dreams of being a good devoting christian.

I've had a long and tortured life, in spite of all the work and soul searching and seeking out "God".

No benefits here. Nothing but pain and trauma.


What do you tell people who have fought their entire lives to gain sanity, connection, spirituality, and love and failed?

And what do you tell 3 year old children in Africa who die of AIDS? Did they deserve their suffering?

I can't believe in a God that designs a universe to make innocent people suffer.

Originally Posted By: reality2k4
If you live your life, true to God, then you will indeed reap the rewards, that you deserve.
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

Loving Kindness Meditation will dramatically improve your spirits; give it a try for just 3 days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz7cpV7ERsM

Top
#436691 - 06/03/13 03:42 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: kiwi64]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3042
Loc: O Kanada
this documentary answers a lot of questions.
it also questions a lot of answers.

_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

Top
#436696 - 06/03/13 04:20 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: kiwi64]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3042
Loc: O Kanada
for those interested in research, history, religion, mythology, theology, psychology...
for those who search for wisdom, knowledge, and truth...
for those willing to invest the time...

i recommend the "Mystery Babylon" series by William Cooper.

smile http://archive.org/details/MysteryBabylonSeries-WilliamCoopertranscriptIncl

smile http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr35KYcNoaM

smile http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl5GZEz3prk

smile http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jZXUqEkwTs

smile http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEGtfCIb3V0

i also highly recommend anything by Joseph Campbell
(co-creator of Star Wars according to George Lucas).
especially if you can get your hands on "The Power of Myth".

smile http://billmoyers.com/spotlight/download-joseph-campbell-and-the-power-of-myth-audio/

smile http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl5GZEz3prk

smile http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwPh4dHDmx0&list=PL6447317C9EF176AD

smile http://www.youtube.com/user/campbellfoundation

_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

Top
#436698 - 06/03/13 04:28 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: Magellan]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3042
Loc: O Kanada
dear magellan,

how to put suffering into perspective.
a detailed in-depth study of the book of JOB.



and another look at the book of JOB
http://vimeo.com/15315450

Originally Posted By: Magellan
This is simply not true.

41 years old, devout christian as a child. Thrown to the wolves, neglected, ignored, bullied, and then developed homosexual feelings against my own dreams of being a good devoting christian.

I've had a long and tortured life, in spite of all the work and soul searching and seeking out "God".

No benefits here. Nothing but pain and trauma.


What do you tell people who have fought their entire lives to gain sanity, connection, spirituality, and love and failed?

And what do you tell 3 year old children in Africa who die of AIDS? Did they deserve their suffering?

I can't believe in a God that designs a universe to make innocent people suffer.

Originally Posted By: reality2k4
If you live your life, true to God, then you will indeed reap the rewards, that you deserve.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

Top
#440024 - 07/04/13 06:50 AM Re: How can there be a God [Re: kiwi64]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3042
Loc: O Kanada
some interesting and thought provoking documentaries on this subject...

The Signs of God's Existence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS1x-6al2pE

God of Wonders: Scientists prove Almighty God's existence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvVt4lDSPeY

"Science Refutes God" Debate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKNd_S3iXfs

Is there evidence for God?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBInzDv3zE0

Proof there is no God.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4GaTts_5DA

The Evidence for God from Contemporary Physics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYfaOJATh_U

In the Beginning Genesis 1:1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmfU-g6Ohpk

have fun smile
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

Top
#444892 - 08/21/13 12:29 AM Re: How can there be a God [Re: victor-victim]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3042
Loc: O Kanada
came across a lively debate between atheist and judaeo/christian monotheist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKeqrtnJ9jE&list=PL1705A06E04875F14
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

Top
#448445 - 09/27/13 02:53 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: kiwi64]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3042
Loc: O Kanada
yet another interesting point of view.

The Absurdity of Life without God

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-absurdity-of-life-without-god

"if there is no God, then objective right and wrong cannot exist. As Dostoyevsky said, 'All things are permitted.'"

"If God is dead, then man is dead, too."

-----------------------------
and the atheist perspective

Atheism and Meaning

http://www.investigatingatheism.info/meaning.html

“Atheism... has generally taught that both individual human beings and (eventually) humanity as a whole have no purpose in the universe, and that they will be definitively annihilated in the course of time...”

here is a great website with lots of information.
http://www.intelligentdesign.org/whatisid.php
plenty of food for thought.

"Intelligent design refers to a scientific research program as well as a community of scientists, philosophers and other scholars who seek evidence of design in nature. The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.
Unlike creationism, the scientific theory of intelligent design does not claim that modern biology can identify whether the intelligent cause detected through science is supernatural."

------------------------
added on October 4,2013.
here is George Carlin's view on religion.
very closely resembles my "former" opinion.

i thought and talked like this for most of my life.
GC sums up most atheist arguments in one monologue.

while i still have my doubts and weaknesses,
i DO NOT think like this anymore.
now i feel disrespectful and arrogant whenever these thoughts enter my mind.
i stand humble and ignorant before my creator, unworthy to criticize his creation, having created nothing myself, being only a creature.

warning: offensive language and religious satire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPOfurmrjxo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_tr_k59O6s



Edited by victor-victim (10/04/13 05:06 PM)
Edit Reason: added link
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

Top
#448760 - 09/30/13 08:35 AM Re: How can there be a God [Re: victor-victim]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: victor-victim
yet another interesting point of view.

The Absurdity of Life without God

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-absurdity-of-life-without-god

"if there is no God, then objective right and wrong cannot exist. As Dostoyevsky said, 'All things are permitted.' If God is dead, then man is dead, too."


This is both an Appeal to Emotion and an Appeal to Consequences logical fallacy: it doesn't address whether there is a God but rather how people would feel and act if there were no God. Such sentimentality does not answer any question of import and is usually just a tactic meant to guilt people into shutting up.

"Right and wrong" are the adapted results of human social development, and obviously vary far more widely between different cultures that believe in different gods than within a single culture where some members believe in god and some don't. Someone who thinks a person who does not pray like they do must be immoral is - themselves - revealing misanthropic tendencies that have spelled out some of the goriest chapters of our history. You might as well say that atheists don't enjoy the taste of chocolate cake.


-----------------------------
Quote:
and the atheist perspective

Atheism and Meaning

http://www.investigatingatheism.info/meaning.html

“Atheism... has generally taught that both individual human beings and (eventually) humanity as a whole have no purpose in the universe, and that they will be definitively annihilated in the course of time...”


First - this is not "the atheist perspective". It is almost certainly written by a theist who is trying to be fair to the other side but struggles with nuances.

Second: "Generally"? People really don't want to start talking about human well-being and religion in "general" terms.

It is false to say there is no expectation of purpose in an atheist life. Rather, there is no expectation of supernaturally-decreed purpose. People can find plenty of meaning in their own lives, the lives of others, something bigger than themselves, by valuing life and the world they experience around them - not because they are told they themselves have no value and the only thing worthwhile about themselves is a magic spell cast by an invisible genie from another dimension. Once again, those who project dangerous nihilism onto people without religious faith are only exposing their own propensities towards violence that apparently can only be held in check by superstitious warnings.

And, sure, ultimately the individual, the species, and all matter as we know it trends towards annihilation. So what? Throw a bunch of atheists and a bunch of believers into a burning building and they'll all run for the door all the same.

One could very fairly ask about how much value is given to life if you believe you actually get two of them, if you get a "do-over."

Quote:

here is a great website with lots of information.
http://www.intelligentdesign.org/whatisid.php
plenty of food for thought.
"Intelligent design refers to a scientific research program as well as a community of scientists, philosophers and other scholars who seek evidence of design in nature. The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection. Unlike creationism, the scientific theory of intelligent design does not claim that modern biology can identify whether the intelligent cause detected through science is supernatural."


Oh ugh, no. If people want to make an intellectually forthright religious truth-claim, go ahead and do it. But ID is a lie, a media campaign that no one actually believes in - as everyone purporting to believe it always asserts the designer to be the Abrahamic God. Being untestable and unfalsifiable it is NOT a scientific theory, and anyone who claims it is is either ignorant or dishonest. The fact that an early ID textbook included multiple uses of the term "crintelligent designeror" due to an incomplete use of global replace should tell you all you need to know of its fraudulent nature. And if you want to read more, look here - the final nail in ID's coffin, where all of its strongest proponents were exposed as charlatans and bullies, the credibility of the movement destroyed forever (you might say, annihilated):

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District


Matt
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

Top
#448766 - 09/30/13 10:01 AM Re: How can there be a God [Re: kiwi64]
WriterKeith Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 932
Loc: southern California
Interesting discussion.

I've always liked many aspects of going to church: the camaraderie, the sense of doing something traditional, and of family custom. Like many, I'm drawn to the idea of being a part and contributing to something bigger than myself, something universal.

But something started disengaging me from those "warm and fuzzy" feelings when the pulpit messages became focused on political and social power, on "worship center" building luxuries, and on the "us vs. them" group mentality.

Somewhere the message of "the gospel" was brushed aside to demean, judge, and ostracize anyone who behaved, looked, believed, or thought differently from the group.

Through the years I have worked with and befriended many people whose beliefs contradict mine, and that is how I recognized the exaggerations and lies many impassioned pastors tell their congregations to fortify their established groupthink.

I was an associate pastor at a Baptist church when the AIDS epidemic broke loose in the 1980s. It was also the period Jerry Falwell was building his political powerhouse. During this time I also worked at Trinity Broadcating Network, (TBN). I could fill volumes about the vile, sinister, and unconscionable statements those circles made about others. Turn on 700 Club and Pat Robertson is sure to deliver a daily sample.

It boils down to market share. "Leave your group and come join ours; we're the only ones that are right."

Something is unraveling in the worldwide church, and it's happening from the inside out, largely based on a fear of facts and provable science.
_________________________
Keith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JfvAPZGjds

Top
#448772 - 09/30/13 11:18 AM Re: How can there be a God [Re: kiwi64]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 326
Loc: Southeast USA
I think people have free will to do evil aside of god.

The hostage situation in the Mall in Kenya was a literal house of horrors. If you have not read any of the reports, do so with caution. It is every brutality known to man in one place.

CSA is another thing. Boggles my mind. As a veteran, I would have no issue dropping a trigger on a CSA perp as a terrorist.

Similar result of pain and terror.

The whole religious justification of murder, genital mutilation, and prejudice is sickening.

I don't understand why people just gravitate to evil so often.
_________________________
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.

Top
Page 12 of 15 < 1 2 ... 10 11 12 13 14 15 >


Moderator:  ModTeam 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.