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#448633 - 09/28/13 08:48 PM My story about my path and my choice. **triggers*
Onesimus75 Offline


Registered: 08/22/13
Posts: 158
Loc: Minnesota
I didn't come to the boards to be controversial. And I'm not doing this to attack or hurt anyone. But the topics involved are painful, to me as well.

[I shared this first as a PM because it's a tangled story, and deeply personal. I don't want it out in public. Among other things I know from personal experience with the local college PFLAG group that the only thing you're not allowed to choose as a homosexual man is religious celibacy. It's like all the guys who were friendly and nice to me, talked about having crushes on me etc suddenly treated me like I ate kittens for breakfast with a side of live mice. Hateful, hostile stuff I'd like to avoid.

But the guys had asked on a public forum, and were so kind and supportive I will risk it. PLEASE this is not an attack. I was asked about the movie Prayers for Bobby and how it differed from my experience with the same conflict between religion and homosexuality (well, bisexuality in my case, predominantly homosexual)]

I grew up in what Freud would call your 'classic triadic relationship'. My mom was strong, close, and we understood each other. My dad worked 80+ hours a week and other than using me as the ball for water polo "grab your knees and hold your breath" my brothers were really too much older to have much to do with me.

I can't remember a time when I didn't feel different. I was smart, and the youngest in my class so even though i grew into a large, strong man I was always smaller, thinner, less developed. I loved theater, singing, gymnastics, dancing, swimming, and soccer. Hated hockey, football, etc.

I disagree with the Michael Reagan topic board, that abuse made me gay, but when I was going into 6th grade and the first perp copped a quick feel, I was shocked that it felt good. That year the kids were old enough to start making gay jokes. Their favorite one for me was to walk by and make an 0 with their mouths and blow. No sound. The joke was that I had been sodomized so many times that you couldn't hear me fart. As an abuse survivor, already confused and starting to feel attracted to the strong, healthy, confident boys around me... that really messed with me.

Sex play started for me in seventh grade, with two of my friends mostly. One would be my lover from the age of 12 until 19, though at that point we just sort of poked at each other... you know... nothing really serious until going into high school.

Some family background is relevant. I grew up religious. I can't remember a time when i didn't believe in and love the Judeo-Christian god. (My family is sort of traditional Lutherans on most things.) Homosexuality was known, spoken of, but never really approved of as a lifestyle, but hatred wasn't even remotely allowed. My aunt was in a lesbian relationship the whole time that I knew her. She died when I was in college. There was no ostracism. I was encouraged to visit and enjoy her company, and I remember staying at her and her lover's house in California when i was young. My cousin the EMT was also a practicing lesbian. Her brother, my cousin was married by the time I was old enough to remember, but he'd lived an active homosexual lifestyle, then gone through the conservative Christian ex-gay movement and was married and had two or three kids. (He's still one of the most happily married of all my siblings and cousins, and his kids are awesome.)

i also knew about abuse from early on. My mom is a rape survivor. One of my uncles was a perp (I don't know if he ever abused my mom.) I knew by the age of 10, and suddenly I looked back and could see that he was allowed to Christmas and thanksgiving dinners but he was watched like a freaking hawk by all the adults, and no kid was ever allowed alone around him.

So, that's my family. Sex was always an open topic, but I still hid so much. I never told them about any of the guys who offended against me. They would have listened, but my conflict was never with my family (like Bobby from the movie). I could have 'come out' and still kept my place in my family, been welcome home on holidays, loved, and had compassion there even if my parents didn't agree with the lifestyle. (Feelings were never condemned at our house, just actions. I remember my mom telling me when I was in 9th grade that she thought a lot of people chose best friends they were at least a little sexually attracted to.)

In Prayers for Bobby the conflict for Bobby was between his religious mother and the most rewarding love Bobby ever knew outside his family. For me, the religious conflict was internal.

One of the most influential people in my life, the woman who's the reason i stayed Christian, was Pastor E, a woman pastor who taught my 8th grade confirmation. I'm smart and passionate but also... challenging. When I encounter an idea I try to knock it down, and if I can't then I take it up. So our church had random parents teach 7th grade confirmation (the basics of the Christian faith so that we could make our own choice about whether we'd agree with (confirm) our baptism as infants or turn away from it.) I terrorized those adults, not to be hard but because I had hard questions and I really wanted to know.

Pastor E took them all and knocked them out of the park. She also just plain loved on me. She took me to see Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. The part where Indie takes the Lord's name in vain and his dad smacks him? She stood up and cheered like it was a home run in the world series. I found out after that year that Pastor E had been a lesbian and chose celibacy as the way to deal with her beliefs and the Bible. She was the one who took me by the shoulders, told me how good at theology I was, and asked if I ever thought about becoming a pastor. Ever since then it's the only thing in my world that's in color and everything else is black and white. I love it that much.

But Jr. High was so confusing. I was such a little wh-re. I found out that if i put out for my guy friends, they'd want me around, so I put out. And then there was M, my best friend. We did more than any of the others combined, and with him... sex stuff wasn't just good. It was like taking a drink of water after years in the desert. I never felt so loved, so wanted, or had such intense sexual reactions. i totally loved that guy. i still do.

But we were never enough for one anther. We had girlfriends all the time, and I wouldn't be surprised if Matt had other guys. I did have one affair on the side, which was super stupid since it turned into date rape and my primary abuse. The sex was... apocalyptic. I felt like I'd turn myself inside out in his hands. But then I'd go home and cry myself to sleep more often than not. I didn't want to be gay. I didn't want to want something I thought was wrong so much that I'd lie and sneak around everyone in my life to get it. But that was who I was. I became suicidal over that (the fact that the only love that felt real to me was homosexual love) by the age of fourteen or fifteen. And got some T for the first time. (Now I wish I could go back and kick myself for not telling the T about the abuse or the homosexuality, but I learned secrecy long since...)

Matt eventually got sick of my conflict. He thought it was hypocritical for me to say I was a Christian and be up having sex with him 3 or 4 times a night at band camp, every year. (yeah, yeah, when I saw that movie I about spit my pop all over the place.) For my sixteenth birthday we didn't sleep all night. It was just sex from dusk to dawn, even though we had our mutual friend asleep right next to us. Sex ninjas, we were. All my siblings thought I was SO virginal.

So, after a lifetime of sex from eleven until eighteen, I went away to college as a pre-seminary major. I was celibate for the first time in my life (Though memories of Matt were always close at hand.) It felt... hard but good. I wasn't lying to people, sneaking, or hiding any more. I'd always been bisexual so I got along with some nice ladies back when I was young, fit, and hot. (That just doesn't last until your 40's you know?) I missed feeling desperately wanted like Matt made me feel. But I didn't miss all the guilt and shame that came with it. And that wasn't external, but internal. That was 1993, the same year that my church at the time started a draft on accepting homosexuality. So officially, and familially, I was golden. But I couldn't shake my belief in the old-fashioned understanding of the Bible passages. So... for a long time my Christianity had lost out to my sex life. Now I flipped it around by circumstance and I liked it better.

I wasn't depressed all the time. I wasn't struggling with suicide. I still had flashbacks etc from the abuse, but I felt like I'd gotten some control.

When I got back after a year at college, Matt and I got back together for the weekend. It would be... inappropriate to describe the sex we had that weekend. But if you cut away to that old movie reel of an atom bomb going off, you wouldn't be far wrong.

But when we were exhausted and he was asleep next to me, that hollow, hurt feeling came back. I felt like I had to choose between sex and God as I knew him. I tried God. I did all right for seven or eight years, just choosing not to act on how I felt. It wasn't as thrilling. (Callouses can't ever make up for a warm person in bed with you, ya know?) But as long as my abuse issues weren't flaring up I didn't want to die every time I got off.

I'm no super-saint. Sometimes I waver in my decision. In my late twenties I had a homosexual affair. In my thirties I've had one 1-weekend stand and then once five years ago I hit on a friend that I'd been flirting with. See? Not perfect, not better than anyone.

But all the sex I could get didn't make me feel happier than when I was celibate. I only really slip up when things hit the rocks with my abuse issues or with relationships with girls. That's one reason that I quit dating.

After the last 'slip' between who I want to be and how I feel, I got in touch with a Lutheran ministry that helps people who want to live a life where their faith and their sex lives match up. The non-Christian world would call it an ex-gay ministry but we don't use that term. I never changed like my cousin did. I just choose to pursue my best understanding of my faith, and if I don't get to have sex here on earth, how does that make me any different than anyone else who's not married in the church's eyes? I'm chasing purity according to my beliefs, and I'm happier about it than when I was chasing that awesome feeling of being held and loved, being trusted when i get someone off.

it's not an easy path. i get attacked by both sides. There are Christian dufuses who somehow think if I really loved God, or prayed right, he'd "fix" me and take away my feelings. And I think he could but he doesn't. Then there are the active homosexuals who treat me almost as bad as the high school bullies because of who I won't have sex with.

And in the middle it's sort of a no-win scenario, but it's the best, most honest one I can come up with. it's occasionally even fun. Here in Minnesota they passed gay marriage this year. i wish I had a photo of the woman at coffee hour at church who was complaining to me about it. My response: "I have two thoughts on this. First, as long as so-called straight Christians are allowed to have no-fault divorces, sleep together before marriage and then wear white to the wedding, all the church is doing is saying 'our sexual immorality is admissible but yours is the worst thing ever' and there's no logical reason anyone would agree with you." She fired some 'it's not the same thing at all' at me and I replied, "yeah, it's not what you're tempted by. So it must be more evil than gossip, slander, covetousness, or anything else on the exact same list in 1 corinthians. Second, if you think homosexuality is wrong, and it's the patience and kindness of God that leads people to repentance, then unless you're willing to go love someone in a homosexual lifestyle better and longer than the guy he's sleeping with, you don't really get a vote."

i don't think she's spoken to me since.

But that's sort of my story. I still find men attractive as well as women, but my faith doesn't permit me to have either. So it's a lot of wanking and prayer for me, but I feel "pretty chill" when I pray.

Monkey in the middle. That's me.
_________________________
We are not defined by our faults, or our wounds, but by the truth within us, which nothing can take away.

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#448635 - 09/28/13 09:41 PM Re: My story about my path and my choice. **triggers* [Re: Onesimus75]
newground Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 741
Loc: michigan
hey Onesimus
I totally get it. I was raised in a fundamental home and the feelings for guys totally flipped me out! I never had the experiences you spoke of but the shame and fear yea totally. when I was last attacked it was by a guy and it made me more afraid then ever of the sexual feelings I totally felt like I was just going to have to live alone and miserable though with a strong right arm the girls seemed so frightening and ... I don't even know. they always had. I wanted to want one but totally didn't. I had some sexual experimentation with a guy friend before the attack and that made me want that more until the perp. then I thought it was too dangerous...too ugly. so I was screwed. just gonna be me all alone. and I made it that way. no risk , no touch, just jack off 10 times a day. but I did find a woman who was different. she saved my life really. cause I could at least find out some big answers like is it possible to be a good dad? is it possible that I'm not gay? is it possible? I did marry her, I do love her.I still have the attractions but I have not acted on them with another guy and our marriage has been good. we have two kids and they are not me. so yea it can be done. and you can do it as well man it is possible. really super unfairly hard, but you can do what you choose to do. I keep pretty quiet on this issue, still feeling the fear I guess but you showed your heart so ..just want you to know you are not alone
_________________________
Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee. let me then tow to pieces, while still chasing thee, thou damned whale! Thus, I give up the spear!"
Herman Melville

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#448636 - 09/28/13 09:44 PM Re: My story about my path and my choice. **triggers* [Re: Onesimus75]
Onesimus75 Offline


Registered: 08/22/13
Posts: 158
Loc: Minnesota
thanks. I appreciate it. And i'm glad that you were able to find marriage and family that make you happy. That's so neat even if hard work..
_________________________
We are not defined by our faults, or our wounds, but by the truth within us, which nothing can take away.

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#448665 - 09/29/13 03:36 AM Re: My story about my path and my choice. **triggers* [Re: Onesimus75]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1466
Loc: New England
Hey Onesimus75,

You have a right to live however you feel is best for you. Gay, straight, bi, and any of the above with or without celebacy. Its nobody's F'ing business but your own.

And good for you for telling off the old biddy at church. She must've had her panties in a twist!

Jude
_________________________
"But now old friends are acting strange,
they shake their heads, they say I've changed.
Something's lost but something's gained in living every day
....it's life's illusions I recall, I really don't know life at all. "
Joni Mitchell

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#448866 - 10/01/13 08:54 AM Re: My story about my path and my choice. **triggers* [Re: Onesimus75]
Tyr Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 161
Post removed. Attacks on specific groups or individuals are not allowed on the site.


Edited by ModTeam (10/04/13 10:27 PM)
Edit Reason: Attacks on groups or individuals not allowed.
_________________________
Once you hear the details of victory, it is hard to distinguish it from a defeat.

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#448914 - 10/01/13 06:42 PM Re: My story about my path and my choice. **triggers* [Re: Onesimus75]
Onesimus75 Offline


Registered: 08/22/13
Posts: 158
Loc: Minnesota
Quote:
I shared this first as a PM because it's a tangled story, and deeply personal. I don't want it out in public. Among other things I know from personal experience with the local college PFLAG group that the only thing you're not allowed to choose as a homosexual man is religious celibacy.


Pretty sure I just called myself a homosexual man. What closet is that?

Quote:
Post removed by ModTeam


So... pretty much exactly why I said I almost didn't share or join this site. 'Cause "free to be who I am" doesn't apply to me apparently...

Also... attacking someone's God or their relationship with their personal faith: Not very tolerant, perhaps?


Edited by ModTeam (10/04/13 10:28 PM)
Edit Reason: Referenced post removed by ModTeam
_________________________
We are not defined by our faults, or our wounds, but by the truth within us, which nothing can take away.

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#449031 - 10/02/13 11:29 PM Re: My story about my path and my choice. **triggers* [Re: Onesimus75]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1466
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Onesimus75
So... pretty much exactly why I said I almost didn't share or join this site. 'Cause "free to be who I am" doesn't apply to me apparently...
Hey Onesimus75,

Don't let one person's comment silence you. You ARE free to be who you are...and who you choose to be. There will always be some self-appointed "identity police" who want to tell you that you're not gay enough, not straight enough, not promiscuous enough, not celebate enough, not christian enough, not anti-christian enough...and on it goes. Pardon me for being blunt, but screw 'em. Its nobody's business to judge you.

Be wll,

Jude
_________________________
"But now old friends are acting strange,
they shake their heads, they say I've changed.
Something's lost but something's gained in living every day
....it's life's illusions I recall, I really don't know life at all. "
Joni Mitchell

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#449035 - 10/03/13 12:52 AM Re: My story about my path and my choice. **triggers* [Re: Onesimus75]
Onesimus75 Offline


Registered: 08/22/13
Posts: 158
Loc: Minnesota
Thanks, Jude.
I appreciate it. I know that, but it's always good to hear.
_________________________
We are not defined by our faults, or our wounds, but by the truth within us, which nothing can take away.

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#449056 - 10/03/13 11:09 AM Re: My story about my path and my choice. **triggers* [Re: Jude]
Jacob S Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 586
Originally Posted By: Jude
Originally Posted By: Onesimus75
So... pretty much exactly why I said I almost didn't share or join this site. 'Cause "free to be who I am" doesn't apply to me apparently...
Hey Onesimus75,

Don't let one person's comment silence you. You ARE free to be who you are...and who you choose to be. There will always be some self-appointed "identity police" who want to tell you that you're not gay enough, not straight enough, not promiscuous enough, not celebate enough, not christian enough, not anti-christian enough...and on it goes. Pardon me for being blunt, but screw 'em. Its nobody's business to judge you.

Be wll,

Jude


I'm going to add my vote to this. well said.
_________________________
Like a spent gladiator
crawling in the colosseum dust
who can count on his remaining limbs
all the people he can trust.
Like the one who stands behind him
cheering him on
Estatic when he stands defiant,
wild with abandon when he's gone

just stay alive.
do whatever you need to.
you are worth it.

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#449192 - 10/04/13 05:55 PM Re: My story about my path and my choice. **triggers* [Re: Onesimus75]
risingagain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 595
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Thanks for telling your story, Onesimus75. I believe all of us have a right to find our own right relationship with spirit, religion, and sexuality. God has given us a heart that knows and a mind that thinks and a mouth that speaks. So no one else can speak for the truth in our hearts.

However when I read the words "sexual immorality" applied to someone who is gay (or sexually different for that matter), I hear that as a judgement and a personal statement, not a truth.

My story is that I live a life of sexual respect and consent through my relationships, which include relationships that have gay romance, sex, and yes, consensual kink!

We all participate in writing our own stories. Bless you on your journey. I trust that you know what is best for you (and you only!).

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