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#448033 - 09/23/13 09:28 PM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 364
still, I think Crux hit the nail on the head that we can't even imagine it.

For me, my husband telling me what happened, makes him so very brave. at the point of disclosure, I had discovered his sex addiction, money lies and alcoholism lies. He really had no choice but to tell me or I would have left. I am so glad he did and I feel he has so much courage. If he hadn't told me, I would have thought of him as so evil and scary because of the things I caught him doing.

Now I see him as courageous for facing his shit (although I wish it was going a lot faster) I see him as wounded by the bad shit that happened to him. Heck, we are all wounded in some way.

I am very grateful he told me. If he hadn't I can tell you that 3 years ago when I found out what had been going on would have been the last time we spoke. Now I can have compassion.

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#448399 - 09/27/13 08:17 AM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
HopeDiesLast Offline


Registered: 01/15/13
Posts: 62
I see a picture that makes a little more sense. Where things/behaviours I didn't understand before fall into place. I still see the grown-up person beside me, not the kid, though every so often I want to hug the kid he once was and tell him he's alright and he's safe now.

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#448400 - 09/27/13 08:30 AM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: tbkkfile]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1722
It was brave to tell your wife. I hope she can realize the fears you harbor and the bravery it took to tell. Not all people have the capacity to learn and understand CSA. Some will turn on you like a dime others will be benign and those who have a heart will extent a shoulder and try to understand and be there for you. It may not work out but in the end both of you will know you have tried and both will be better people. Those that do not try are consumed with biases and a closed mind and heart. Fear controls them as to the realities of CSA and its effects. It sounds like you made a good choice to tell your wife. Ask her how she feels and make sure she is getting support and help fro someone who knows about csa and traumsa. There are many incompetents who do not have a clue on trauma snd csa and give uninformed opinions and advice. Good luck

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#448413 - 09/27/13 09:46 AM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
tbkkfile Online   content


Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 235
Loc: Surrey, United Kingdom
KMCINVA - thanks for your kind words, a while back I was I guess aware of my own mortality and figured that it was time to at least begin the healing process (it was a long time coming around 43 years or so), I realised that I couldn't do this on my own (one of the reasons I'm here) and I had a wife that at least deserved to know what had happened and why I am who I am, I needed to try to be honest, after I told her there were many things that she couldn't understand many of the questions she's asked I asked myself, and many of them I have no answers for either of us.

I didn't tell her all that happened, but she does try to shield me when she can such as news items on the TV, and her attitude has changed regarding hearing similar things, I guess we are closer now then we were before.

She has had to put up with me for a long time so I guess she deserves a medal just for staying the distance.
_________________________
To look up and not down,
To look forward and not back,
To look out and not in

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#448417 - 09/27/13 10:32 AM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
freeze-on Offline


Registered: 08/08/09
Posts: 76
Loc: southeast
In what I perceive is a healing aspect in recovery is sharing our story in some situations...of course, where its safe, where it won't set us up for someone else to heap abuse on us if we are not at a 'good' place.

I disclosed to a deacon chairman in my church for purposes of accountability for ssa....in an effort to get better....he i suppose saw me as 'wanting an encounter'...which he took advantage of a few months later when i was quite vulnerable....leading to a year of hell.....when will i ever learn what's safe and what's not?

My wife disclosed to my older son and daughter/26/23 some of my crazy behaviors and they are in turmoil currently over it....i would have liked to have told them but not all the details...but i was the one who did the crazy behavior in the context of marriage....a great rejection from one i thought loved me, but she did it in an emotionally chaotic state of hurt and anger. I have to go one day at a time and not worry constantly over it, and process it slowly.

The shame of what others 'think' diminishes over time as we move thru this life when we 'think' they see us one way or another. Some can handle it , some can't, but i know there is always that nag in me that wants to say "they're thinking_____________about me", i am rejected again, i don't belong, i don't fit in etc. I cannot project back onto what they are 'thinking' without validating it. Validation comes by point blank asking them and/or observing how they treat us after the disclosure. My failure is to 'think' i know what they are thinking without asking them and assuming they are thinking one way or another....some times i just don't know and don't jump to conclusions. If they are not safe people i just don't disclose period.

AND THEN when others disclose my story and/or my behaviors viciously to others/via the rumor mill,etc. i still have to take one day at a time and not own the shame, and remember who i am, who i was made to be, and not let the abuse label hang around my neck like a giant road sign.

AND THEN if they want to know details, i ask 'why do you need to know' and determine if there is any reason to tell them anything further.

Part of my recovery program is hanging out with addicts at a local treatment center. FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE of being a sounding
board for when they are clear minded enuf to start dealing with their stuff. And if I am genuine and sincere in my dealings with them some of them trust me enough to disclose at which time I disclose for the purpose of allowing them to identify with another AS WELL AS knowing that it is healing for me. The specifics are not always discussed but the general emotions are usually similar. I am not their counselor, but a layperson on the streets of life, who is there for them, and they for me, just as this survivor board is.

I suppose a forward goal is to reach a spot where my wound can become a healing agent for others in some way. One day at a time.

sorry for the long post. guys thanks for being here.

cec

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#448425 - 09/27/13 11:56 AM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
sugarbaby Offline


Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 352
I never saw anything except the man I married. Post-disclosure never changed that. Then it was the man I married who was in pain and needed help beyond my expertise.

Now he is more withdrawn ....but I don't know what is with that right now.

I never really thought of the abuse if that is what your asking. He described lots of things to me but it was never something I associated with him. I associate that behavior with the perp.

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#448431 - 09/27/13 01:26 PM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: KMCINVA]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6542
Loc: Never Sugar Mountain
Originally Posted By: KMCINVA
I hope she can realize the fears you harbor and the bravery it took to tell.
Yeah...umm...no. It was all used to destroy me, but that's a mile-long thread for another year.
_________________________
Stop expecting people to be other than what they are! You'll be so much better-off. [Christopher, age 10]

The Aftermath Video

My Absolute Hero!

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#448432 - 09/27/13 01:28 PM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: sugarbaby]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6542
Loc: Never Sugar Mountain
Originally Posted By: sugarbaby
I never saw anything except the man I married. Post-disclosure never changed that. Then it was the man I married who was in pain and needed help beyond my expertise.


MS will be sending you a Ferrari ASAP.
_________________________
Stop expecting people to be other than what they are! You'll be so much better-off. [Christopher, age 10]

The Aftermath Video

My Absolute Hero!

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#448433 - 09/27/13 01:55 PM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
One thing that occurs to me is that "seeing" ie, literally viewing and believing in a visseral, detailed way and "perceiving" ie, what you think of a person, how you juddge their behaviour etc are intrinsically different things.

For example, my mum like me had an extremely lonely and isolated time at boarding school, was severely regimented and went through what was tantamount to major emotional abuse, ---- albeit unlike me she was there for close to twelve years where she lived full time, where as I was for just two and only for two nights a week, (indeed her avoidance of me boarding full time was precisely due to her own experiences).

Because of some degree of shared experience I can very much see my mum as a shy little girl standing bare foot in a cold school corridor late at night being given a verbal tongue lashing for the hainus crime of talking after lights out. That is a matter of imaginative empathy, extrapalating what anothers' experience is based on my own.

That is quite a different matter to perception. I know for example how my mum's time at school affected her, her self esteem, even the way she still! is far more tense on Sunday nights than she should be or the way she constantly feels that she must be "doing something useful"

These two things can exist independently. You can see someone on tv stub their toe and think "youch!" without it affecting at all how you perceive them, or you can for example still perceive someone as significantly couragious for say coping with a bereavement even if you've never been in any sort of comparable situation yourself.

Of course, this works negatively to. You can assume that because you! find something easy or not to be painful, that holds true for everybody, and thus believe those more affected by it as weak or incompetant, or indeed you can perceive someone one way just! because of your judgement of them, irrispective of what their actual experience or even actions might be. This is exactly what Lee said above. A person who assumes any man who experiences sa is just an abuser waiting to happen is pretty much not paying attention to anything! to do with the person's own experience.

These are things I have to face myself. People either believe that because they personally couldn't say climb a flight of steps without looking I can't, or automatically assume anyone witha disability is an idiot.

What I find interesting about the two people I first fully and completely disclosed all the gorey details to, is one of them i pretty much believe "saw" my abuse, while the other simply percieved me!

My extremely close male friend had worked extensively as a teaching assistant, and when i told him, he actually admited he'd seen groups of teenaged girls motivated by exactly the same sort of s/xually predatory mockery as created my abuse, though in the schools he worked in such things were usually only expressed verbally, or at most with exhibitionism, not the physically violent virtual gang rape I experienced.

The other friend I told was my Russian friend, who seemed pretty shattered by the news, which surprised me, since otherwise she is an amazingly strong person. her response was more trying to alter what I! felt than actually discussing the events, (which, considdering that I was phoning her up incoherent with tears at the time is not surprising).

thinking about it, I don't actually know if she ever has experienced physical vulnerability or been in a situation where she felt herself physically powerless, since she's a black belt in karate, does viking reinactment and has recently started Krav Magar, indeed she admits that on all the occasions she's ever been in fights her first response was to attack.


I don't actually believe there really is superiority in one thing or the other, in sensory impressions from imaginative empathising or indeed in simply making a qualified judgement of another person and perceiving them accordingly, like everything else I suppose it's how it's done and what a person's intentions are.

I do know however, that I fear giving people the imaginatively empathic experience of disclosure, since frankly I don't want others to experience even vicariously what I did, while I worry about how others will perceive me, wether I will be just seen as weak or damaged, or still worse as a potential abuser.

Then again, what others actually do! perceive or imagine and what our own beliefs say! they perceive or imagine can be vastly different things as we all know.


Edited by dark empathy (09/27/13 02:03 PM)

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#448470 - 09/27/13 05:59 PM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
CruxFidelis Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
how about an Aston Martin?
_________________________
“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

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