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#447954 - 09/23/13 02:14 AM What do you see?
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6419
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
A very serious question seeking blunt-arse answers.

So when sig others, wives, brothers, sisters and friends look at us, post-disclosure, I wonder what they see? What do they imagine? What's the picture in their head?

Now; please understand that I do not make a habit at all of disclosing to nearly anyone except for those like pastors et al whereas I can hear their views on allowing me as past of the flock, but many (as in zillions) of my local peeps heard lots about me as my ex made certain to tell all, tell the rumor-mill and all channels like them.

So what do they see when they look at us/me/we. A kid on his knees, all fours, in bed?

Just how disgusting a vision are we?
_________________________
This nation has lost its mind!

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#447955 - 09/23/13 02:16 AM Re: What do you see? [Re: Still]
Rambler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 134
Loc: Planet Earth
Frankly, I don't care.

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#447956 - 09/23/13 02:46 AM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6419
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
***Trigger in Invisible Ink****


OK...But I have people around me, whom I can't ask directly. I'd like to know if they see me at 10 with a dick in my mouth or up may ass.
_________________________
This nation has lost its mind!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#447960 - 09/23/13 04:24 AM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
newground Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 759
Loc: michigan
hey bud
I think it is natural to wonder what people are thinking about us. I do it all the time. and while I don't "care" exactly on one hand , I TOTALLY care on the other. it sucks that your ex told for you too really makes the telling again that much harder. I don't think that most people see in their mind the actions. for me the part I hate is the people looking at me like im broken, or just plain pitiful.for me this is a now feeling, nit thinking about what they might envision happened cause if there thinking in those terms... I don't want anything to do with them anyway.
_________________________
Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee. let me then tow to pieces, while still chasing thee, thou damned whale! Thus, I give up the spear!"
Herman Melville

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#447962 - 09/23/13 05:24 AM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
tbkkfile Offline


Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 181
Loc: Surrey, United Kingdom
Hi

I do understand where your coming from, I have only ever told one person about my CSA and she happens to be my wife, I don't know whether I made the right decision, she says that she's glad that I told her, I feel somehow less then a man because of it and in the days that I'm really down I wonder whther she feels the same
_________________________
Go back?" he thought. "No good at all! Go sideways? Impossible! Go forward? Only thing to do! On we go!" So up he got, and trotted along with his little sword held in front of him and one hand feeling the wall, and his heart all of a patter and a pitter

J.R.R.Tolkien, The Hobbit

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#447966 - 09/23/13 06:52 AM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
CruxFidelis Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
I don't think 'most people' imagine us "on all fours" so to speak, or whatever it looked like when it happened.

I don't think most people have the pre established neural connections in their head to even be able to visualize the horror. The face contorts and cringes in disgust at such a thing. They can't handle it and they run away with it.

I think some are able to see us compassionately.
_________________________
“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

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#447972 - 09/23/13 08:17 AM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3391
Loc: somewhere in Africa
what i FEAR that people might be "seeing" is me as a perp - because there is such a prevalent misconception that it is inevitable that the abuse victim goes on to become an abuser - the old vampire myth. that was one thing that kept me from revealing and getting help for years.
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#447973 - 09/23/13 08:42 AM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
Valkyrie Offline


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 167
I see the incredible man I married who is suffering horribly. I see the man who despite this insanely evil thing that happened to him, managed to cobble together a life, no matter how disfunctional it turned out to be. I see the man who will figure this is out, will integrate, will come to terms, and who will find peace because he accomplishes everything he sets out to do. I see the man who has hurt me in ways I never imagined possible, but whom I still love and will stand by no matter what becomes of us.

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#447979 - 09/23/13 10:12 AM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
wallflower Offline


Registered: 09/23/13
Posts: 5
As a friend I see a person, that is all. A person that I wish would embrace me wholeheartedly like I do them. The abuse is not even on my mind. I just want to be with them and have a good time and do what people do together. I do walk on egg shells thinking I will do or say something wrong because at some point I will get yelled at or mocked. So I do look at him wondering what is going on his mind and what it is I will do next that will cause him to bolt. I try to embrace the good times but they sometimes get over looked by the sudden mood changes. Honestly, I am anxious and cautious. But mostly I see someone inside of someone who I hope will take over forever and be happy.

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#448032 - 09/23/13 09:02 PM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
pittsburgh Offline


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 89
Loc: west Chester, Pa
I do not see where you say either of you in therapy. I would suggest that you do so. One, to help him move forward, there is a better way to live life. Two, for you to take care of yourself. My wife and I had similar issues I am now on antidepressants, this has helped the mood swings, have worked with a "T" now for several years I found that when I understood what was the effects I could start to deal with them better. The nightmares lessen to a great degree. So there is hope it takes a willingness and work. The road will have bumps but can get better. I wish you the best in your journey.
_________________________
it is and has been quite a trip thru life, as last I feel that I am in a better place, it takes work and in my case a wife the was and is forgiveing and helpful. At last a relationship has gone right, messed up three.

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#448033 - 09/23/13 09:28 PM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 360
still, I think Crux hit the nail on the head that we can't even imagine it.

For me, my husband telling me what happened, makes him so very brave. at the point of disclosure, I had discovered his sex addiction, money lies and alcoholism lies. He really had no choice but to tell me or I would have left. I am so glad he did and I feel he has so much courage. If he hadn't told me, I would have thought of him as so evil and scary because of the things I caught him doing.

Now I see him as courageous for facing his shit (although I wish it was going a lot faster) I see him as wounded by the bad shit that happened to him. Heck, we are all wounded in some way.

I am very grateful he told me. If he hadn't I can tell you that 3 years ago when I found out what had been going on would have been the last time we spoke. Now I can have compassion.

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#448399 - 09/27/13 08:17 AM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
HopeDiesLast Offline


Registered: 01/15/13
Posts: 62
I see a picture that makes a little more sense. Where things/behaviours I didn't understand before fall into place. I still see the grown-up person beside me, not the kid, though every so often I want to hug the kid he once was and tell him he's alright and he's safe now.

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#448400 - 09/27/13 08:30 AM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: tbkkfile]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1647
It was brave to tell your wife. I hope she can realize the fears you harbor and the bravery it took to tell. Not all people have the capacity to learn and understand CSA. Some will turn on you like a dime others will be benign and those who have a heart will extent a shoulder and try to understand and be there for you. It may not work out but in the end both of you will know you have tried and both will be better people. Those that do not try are consumed with biases and a closed mind and heart. Fear controls them as to the realities of CSA and its effects. It sounds like you made a good choice to tell your wife. Ask her how she feels and make sure she is getting support and help fro someone who knows about csa and traumsa. There are many incompetents who do not have a clue on trauma snd csa and give uninformed opinions and advice. Good luck

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#448413 - 09/27/13 09:46 AM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
tbkkfile Offline


Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 181
Loc: Surrey, United Kingdom
KMCINVA - thanks for your kind words, a while back I was I guess aware of my own mortality and figured that it was time to at least begin the healing process (it was a long time coming around 43 years or so), I realised that I couldn't do this on my own (one of the reasons I'm here) and I had a wife that at least deserved to know what had happened and why I am who I am, I needed to try to be honest, after I told her there were many things that she couldn't understand many of the questions she's asked I asked myself, and many of them I have no answers for either of us.

I didn't tell her all that happened, but she does try to shield me when she can such as news items on the TV, and her attitude has changed regarding hearing similar things, I guess we are closer now then we were before.

She has had to put up with me for a long time so I guess she deserves a medal just for staying the distance.
_________________________
Go back?" he thought. "No good at all! Go sideways? Impossible! Go forward? Only thing to do! On we go!" So up he got, and trotted along with his little sword held in front of him and one hand feeling the wall, and his heart all of a patter and a pitter

J.R.R.Tolkien, The Hobbit

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#448417 - 09/27/13 10:32 AM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
freeze-on Offline


Registered: 08/08/09
Posts: 72
Loc: southeast
In what I perceive is a healing aspect in recovery is sharing our story in some situations...of course, where its safe, where it won't set us up for someone else to heap abuse on us if we are not at a 'good' place.

I disclosed to a deacon chairman in my church for purposes of accountability for ssa....in an effort to get better....he i suppose saw me as 'wanting an encounter'...which he took advantage of a few months later when i was quite vulnerable....leading to a year of hell.....when will i ever learn what's safe and what's not?

My wife disclosed to my older son and daughter/26/23 some of my crazy behaviors and they are in turmoil currently over it....i would have liked to have told them but not all the details...but i was the one who did the crazy behavior in the context of marriage....a great rejection from one i thought loved me, but she did it in an emotionally chaotic state of hurt and anger. I have to go one day at a time and not worry constantly over it, and process it slowly.

The shame of what others 'think' diminishes over time as we move thru this life when we 'think' they see us one way or another. Some can handle it , some can't, but i know there is always that nag in me that wants to say "they're thinking_____________about me", i am rejected again, i don't belong, i don't fit in etc. I cannot project back onto what they are 'thinking' without validating it. Validation comes by point blank asking them and/or observing how they treat us after the disclosure. My failure is to 'think' i know what they are thinking without asking them and assuming they are thinking one way or another....some times i just don't know and don't jump to conclusions. If they are not safe people i just don't disclose period.

AND THEN when others disclose my story and/or my behaviors viciously to others/via the rumor mill,etc. i still have to take one day at a time and not own the shame, and remember who i am, who i was made to be, and not let the abuse label hang around my neck like a giant road sign.

AND THEN if they want to know details, i ask 'why do you need to know' and determine if there is any reason to tell them anything further.

Part of my recovery program is hanging out with addicts at a local treatment center. FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE of being a sounding
board for when they are clear minded enuf to start dealing with their stuff. And if I am genuine and sincere in my dealings with them some of them trust me enough to disclose at which time I disclose for the purpose of allowing them to identify with another AS WELL AS knowing that it is healing for me. The specifics are not always discussed but the general emotions are usually similar. I am not their counselor, but a layperson on the streets of life, who is there for them, and they for me, just as this survivor board is.

I suppose a forward goal is to reach a spot where my wound can become a healing agent for others in some way. One day at a time.

sorry for the long post. guys thanks for being here.

cec

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#448425 - 09/27/13 11:56 AM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
sugarbaby Offline


Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 341
I never saw anything except the man I married. Post-disclosure never changed that. Then it was the man I married who was in pain and needed help beyond my expertise.

Now he is more withdrawn ....but I don't know what is with that right now.

I never really thought of the abuse if that is what your asking. He described lots of things to me but it was never something I associated with him. I associate that behavior with the perp.

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#448431 - 09/27/13 01:26 PM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: KMCINVA]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6419
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: KMCINVA
I hope she can realize the fears you harbor and the bravery it took to tell.
Yeah...umm...no. It was all used to destroy me, but that's a mile-long thread for another year.
_________________________
This nation has lost its mind!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#448432 - 09/27/13 01:28 PM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: sugarbaby]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6419
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: sugarbaby
I never saw anything except the man I married. Post-disclosure never changed that. Then it was the man I married who was in pain and needed help beyond my expertise.


MS will be sending you a Ferrari ASAP.
_________________________
This nation has lost its mind!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

Top
#448433 - 09/27/13 01:55 PM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1988
Loc: durham, north england
One thing that occurs to me is that "seeing" ie, literally viewing and believing in a visseral, detailed way and "perceiving" ie, what you think of a person, how you juddge their behaviour etc are intrinsically different things.

For example, my mum like me had an extremely lonely and isolated time at boarding school, was severely regimented and went through what was tantamount to major emotional abuse, ---- albeit unlike me she was there for close to twelve years where she lived full time, where as I was for just two and only for two nights a week, (indeed her avoidance of me boarding full time was precisely due to her own experiences).

Because of some degree of shared experience I can very much see my mum as a shy little girl standing bare foot in a cold school corridor late at night being given a verbal tongue lashing for the hainus crime of talking after lights out. That is a matter of imaginative empathy, extrapalating what anothers' experience is based on my own.

That is quite a different matter to perception. I know for example how my mum's time at school affected her, her self esteem, even the way she still! is far more tense on Sunday nights than she should be or the way she constantly feels that she must be "doing something useful"

These two things can exist independently. You can see someone on tv stub their toe and think "youch!" without it affecting at all how you perceive them, or you can for example still perceive someone as significantly couragious for say coping with a bereavement even if you've never been in any sort of comparable situation yourself.

Of course, this works negatively to. You can assume that because you! find something easy or not to be painful, that holds true for everybody, and thus believe those more affected by it as weak or incompetant, or indeed you can perceive someone one way just! because of your judgement of them, irrispective of what their actual experience or even actions might be. This is exactly what Lee said above. A person who assumes any man who experiences sa is just an abuser waiting to happen is pretty much not paying attention to anything! to do with the person's own experience.

These are things I have to face myself. People either believe that because they personally couldn't say climb a flight of steps without looking I can't, or automatically assume anyone witha disability is an idiot.

What I find interesting about the two people I first fully and completely disclosed all the gorey details to, is one of them i pretty much believe "saw" my abuse, while the other simply percieved me!

My extremely close male friend had worked extensively as a teaching assistant, and when i told him, he actually admited he'd seen groups of teenaged girls motivated by exactly the same sort of s/xually predatory mockery as created my abuse, though in the schools he worked in such things were usually only expressed verbally, or at most with exhibitionism, not the physically violent virtual gang rape I experienced.

The other friend I told was my Russian friend, who seemed pretty shattered by the news, which surprised me, since otherwise she is an amazingly strong person. her response was more trying to alter what I! felt than actually discussing the events, (which, considdering that I was phoning her up incoherent with tears at the time is not surprising).

thinking about it, I don't actually know if she ever has experienced physical vulnerability or been in a situation where she felt herself physically powerless, since she's a black belt in karate, does viking reinactment and has recently started Krav Magar, indeed she admits that on all the occasions she's ever been in fights her first response was to attack.


I don't actually believe there really is superiority in one thing or the other, in sensory impressions from imaginative empathising or indeed in simply making a qualified judgement of another person and perceiving them accordingly, like everything else I suppose it's how it's done and what a person's intentions are.

I do know however, that I fear giving people the imaginatively empathic experience of disclosure, since frankly I don't want others to experience even vicariously what I did, while I worry about how others will perceive me, wether I will be just seen as weak or damaged, or still worse as a potential abuser.

Then again, what others actually do! perceive or imagine and what our own beliefs say! they perceive or imagine can be vastly different things as we all know.


Edited by dark empathy (09/27/13 02:03 PM)

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#448470 - 09/27/13 05:59 PM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
CruxFidelis Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
how about an Aston Martin?
_________________________
“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

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#448590 - 09/28/13 01:40 PM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
HD001 Offline


Registered: 07/30/12
Posts: 261
Loc: us
I see other humans telling their story. Some of them are hard to read. I don't look at them often. After reading a disclosure I often wish I could give the guy a hug. It is ugly stuff that no one wants to think about but its so important to share when one is ready.
I might react with less shock them some of the other partners because I'm a survivor as well. I remember how hard it was to tell what happened to me. After I remembered my tongue swelled up and I couldn't talk for two hours and just had a massive panic attack. Even once I could speak the story was soooo hard to force out. I'm proud of you guys. When I read your stories I feel sadness compassion hope and empathy.
_________________________
Everything comes from within

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#448655 - 09/29/13 01:24 AM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: Still]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6419
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
I see one idiot who screwed up all the lives around him with the poisonous looks and smell that a truly foul creature posesses. He has never lived a normal life. What friends he has, run away when they truly see what was once covered.

A friend for 20 years (really close friend) just put me on the "pay-no-mind" list. He was present for me when we filmed the 700-Club thing. He was the visitation supervisor of record for me and my kids during the vicious divorce. He took me on trips when I was ready to drop-dead from strain. He was the only one to visit me in the hospital last time I was in.

I would say some misunderstanding is at work here, except that things like this have happened over and over in my life ever since disclosure.

Too needy, too freaky, too gross, too icky to really be there, not enough brass, too wimpy...? I just don't know. I've let this thing take its time, but its been about 5-months now with no contact at all. We live in the same town. Today, he defriended me from FaceBook, which is the preferred method for everyone here to communicate.

My sister has completely written me of (including FB) as bottom-feeding sea-freak ever since disclosure.

This all hurts like hell and I don't get it. I don't get why its happening, but its like the alienation found in childhood all over again.

I have been certain to not over-lean on these folks, or anyone for that matter. That's the Ts' jobs. But this is telling me that people are willing to cut me loose for something that I AM, and that makes me sick.
_________________________
This nation has lost its mind!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#448874 - 10/01/13 09:58 AM Re: What do you see? ***TRIG*** [Re: CruxFidelis]
sugarbaby Offline


Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 341
Quote:
MS will be sending you a Ferrari ASAP.


Nah, I live near dirt roads.....I would feel bad for the car! smile

Quote:
This all hurts like hell and I don't get it. I don't get why its happening, but its like the alienation found in childhood all over again.


Don't ever discount the fact that people would have come into and gone out of your life even if you had never been abused. I've had people/friends/family come and go for no apparent reason (fbook and otherwise)....sometimes for apparent reasons....and I've never been abused. I've had people I've known for decades that won't talk to me because we don't agree on gun rights issues. It's stupid.....but it is what it is.

I was very disturbed at how people saw H when he did in-patient mental health. I was glad he was there but the same people who made a small effort to visit him in the hospital NEVER went the 9 days he was is psyche. I was the only one and I don't see what the big deal was....he needed it.

Maybe this has **triggers** maybe not....to be honest I'm not sure so read carefully.....in a nutshell:

I know H was very disturbed about explaining to me his physical reactions to the abuse but what he didn't understand then, and I hope many of you know, is that the parts of the nervous system that handle those things are not the same nerves we use to type these posts on our keyboards. I wrote up a post a while back about this but I'm not sure I ever posted it.

These physical reactions are handled mostly by the same nervous system areas that handle things like digestion, hormone releases, and breathing. These are not reactions that men or women EVER have much, if any, control over.

I think that information was one thing that he was very concerned about my reaction to and how I would see him. That was only because he didn't understand his physical reactions to the abuse though.


Edited by sugarbaby (10/01/13 10:08 AM)

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