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#447529 - 09/18/13 10:25 AM Thoughts of a non-thiest
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 731
Loc: NJ
Thankfully when I started my journey of healing here at MS there was a group of men who I was able to connect with who had no interest in religion, like I do. Some of them come from a religious background but for whatever reason mostly our own transference (which isnt a bad thing) religion does not play a part in our lives. It is also my feeling that at that time , the boundries on the board were a little more stringent against religious mentions or thoughts in posts in the main section and over the years the line certainly seems to have changed.

While I know it has helped/helps some; on the flip side so many men have been hurt by religious personal and persecution and it continues to be a big trigger through thier lives and healing journey. Respectfully, some people just dont care about triggering others. Open blessings and quotes about god are all mentions that while they inspire some hurt and turn away others. It was my main goal here to connect with men whome were abused. I found a great deal of "blindness" to the healing. We talked, we shared, we cried, we were just men who were hurt. it was more inclusive vs exclusive, while identifying, even with a simple blessing, might be more divisive rather than inclusive.

While offering blessings in daily life might be "regionalized and accepted" to some its just plain rude and offensive. It has happened to me more and more often here in NJ, and rather than start a fight or make a big deal I walk away, for my own health and wellbeing. I rather say right there in the supermarket "Some of us don't want or appreciate being blessed or offered something we don't want or brings angst, anger and resentment by being blindly offered something that you feel the need to perpetuate".

While not limiting this to Christians, it seems that this group of people are the most in your face about it. I don't understand why religion has to be forced upon people. While you might suggest that signing something "blessings to you" is just reflectiong one owns faith, it at the same time is an overt way of adding religion into the conversation and topic. I think the overtness and lack of care for others who don't feel the same, whom might even be harmed by it, specifically here at MS is what bothers me the most. Also the most hurtful aspect of it.

So, while I'm the minoroty and only talk for myself I'll have to continue to ignore overt abuse, even unintentional but well documented. Maybe next time at Whole Foods/Home Depot, Ill take the time and gently say to the manager that not everybody wants to be blessed by the cashier. I suspect that if I worked as a cashier and said " Have a very athiestic day today" with a smile it wouldn't be very accepted by people. Similarly if I signed every post I wrote here with my old anti religion tag, I wouldn't be welcome here anymore and people would complain to managment again.

I dont suspect behavior is going to change, but I want my feelings of hurt out there too. When I see it, it brings me pain and sorrow. It makes me feel like I dont belong here. That there is a group within a group that separates the healing. Exclusive rather than inclusive.

I much rather post this in the main section, but I adhere to the boundries of MS to post religious topics here.
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#447537 - 09/18/13 11:26 AM Re: Thoughts of a non-thiest [Re: Castle]
BuffaloCO Offline


Registered: 07/14/12
Posts: 428
Loc: USA
Castle, I fully support your choice to not believe as is your right. Finding healing is a individual path for everyone. I would say however that to tell others "keep it to yourself as some are offended" applies in many discussions, not just theology. That is why I post my spiritual beliefs in this thread and try not to take them elsewhere, and I also simply do not visit some threads because for me I can't support the ideas there. Still, others need a place to be able to speak up freely without being attacked. For that reason, I'll stay away from the conversation in those threads as arguments add little to anyones progress. I'm not perfect at it but trying to get better at it.

I also try not to speak about my beliefs in the chat room, for the reasons you mentioned. If I'm asked I usually will take it into a PM, again for the reasons you state about it being a possible trigger for others. However, there does seem to be no problem for some atheists when it comes to openly slamming people of faith there, so I'm learning to ignore it. It is certainly not all members of either group who try to promote heated discussions, just some, so I think the majority of members try to be respectful here.

So, for me I think it's a good idea to keep discussions of faith in this thread as much as possible. Yet some have come in previously simply to attack an entire group too, and that also does not add to healing. I don't see this post by you as an attack, because you outline a polite discussion about your concerns and I respect that. As far as businesses go, they have a right to operate under any business model they like. If it causes them to loose customers that may bring a change in the practices. I simply would not shop there if I found the place uncomfortable.

Now the waiting for me begins, to see if this response is considered an attack as well. I really don't mean it that way, and again very much respect your right to your own ideas and chosen path for healing.
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“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.” - Plato

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#447543 - 09/18/13 12:28 PM Re: Thoughts of a non-thiest [Re: Castle]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 731
Loc: NJ
I'm not looking to attack, nor do I feel attacked.

Both " sides" ( which is the paradox) should leave it outside as to prevent sides. We're all just survivors here.

I could shop elsewhere however I don't think it's a corporate allowable greetings and it just shows poor personal boundaries at the work place. Im not debilitated by it, just personally offended.

I do believe we work at not trying to trigger other members here...I see little to no political discussion s which is great. Religious division is just more inherent. Im asking to consider the trigger effect of adding/ signing " blessings" or other connotation in the main forum.


I certainly am not telling anybody to be or not to be religious ( sorta definition of a nonthiest)


Edited by Castle (09/18/13 12:40 PM)
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#447552 - 09/18/13 03:25 PM Re: Thoughts of a non-thiest [Re: BuffaloCO]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 849
Loc: Kc,Mo
Very well said sir
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-uYCAfpxrY
TRIGGER WARNING
Video of me telling my story
you are not alone never were
WRITTEN FORM
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=339159#Post339159
Why i hate Religion but love Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

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#447556 - 09/18/13 04:17 PM Re: Thoughts of a non-thiest [Re: Castle]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3362
Loc: O Kanada
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#447560 - 09/18/13 04:53 PM Re: Thoughts of a non-thiest [Re: Castle]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3362
Loc: O Kanada
Originally Posted By: Castle

Both " sides" ( which is the paradox) should leave it outside as to prevent sides.


even a line with zero thickness, and only one dimension (length), still has two "sides" and an infinite number of points.



even if the line is curved into a loop and the "opposite endpoints" are joined and thereby eliminated,
two dimensions are still required, and two "sides" still remain... in "side" and out "side".
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#447562 - 09/18/13 05:07 PM Re: Thoughts of a non-thiest [Re: Castle]
BuffaloCO Offline


Registered: 07/14/12
Posts: 428
Loc: USA
Guess I am not sure what you are talking about so would need an example perhaps. If you are talking about eliminating this particular thread I'd be opposed to that. In other general discussions, clearly not intended for a specific topic like world news, I think any triggering comments should be left out of those areas too, not just ones referring to faith issues.
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“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.” - Plato

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#447594 - 09/18/13 11:40 PM Re: Thoughts of a non-thiest [Re: BuffaloCO]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 849
Loc: Kc,Mo
I think he is saying that there are 2 sides regardless
you can not have one without the other. I think also there is room for all as long as love is the motivating factor.

I do not believe forcing anything on anyone nor do i believe if someone says have a blessed day is forcing anything on anyone . I just think that we are expressing ourselves the only way we know how as people.

You never know what will or will not offend someone because everyone has had their own walk in this life . Everything can be considered an offense now a days . So to say by not doing this for one person it will somehow alleviate the problem for all will not solve the issue because by doing so even that will cause offense because solving a problem for one in some instances creates another problem for the other. I know that is not what is being said directly in this thread but in a way it is .

Considering that if we just Respect one another whether we agree or disagree I think would solve the majority of the whole religion issue .

I do not look at a persons belief as a religion for it is the obsession and unwillingness to view ones own belief without correction or an unwillingness to see even your own views as possibly wrong that defines religion.
I personally can not stand religious people in the sense that ,they are bound by their own belief or what they view as the only way or their way is the best way. I also do not think you can lump "Christians" into one group because there are Christians that live out the life with love and compassion . Than there are Christians that live out the life with hatred and bigotry. The westboro baptist church is the best example i can think of . I would not consider myself a christian to be lumped in with the whole broad spectrum "Christian" because of so called Christians like westboro .

I think it all boils down to respect and knowing yourself what you can and can not handle where you can and can not go. No one forces anyone to read any of this stuff . If i see a thread not going in a place i do not agree with or see a thread taking a direction i do not like , i simply exit out . And above all show respect . Even exiting out of a thread you disagree with is a sign of respecting yourself really. My 2 cent
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-uYCAfpxrY
TRIGGER WARNING
Video of me telling my story
you are not alone never were
WRITTEN FORM
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=339159#Post339159
Why i hate Religion but love Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

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#447595 - 09/19/13 12:52 AM Re: Thoughts of a non-thiest [Re: nltsaved]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3362
Loc: O Kanada
you explained my position very well, nltsaved.
especially...
Originally Posted By: nltsaved

Considering that if we just Respect one another whether we agree or disagree I think would solve the majority of the whole religion issue.


if i may change just one word...
Considering that if we just Love one another whether we agree or disagree I think would solve the majority of the whole religion issue.

_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#447656 - 09/19/13 04:08 PM Re: Thoughts of a non-thiest [Re: Castle]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 731
Loc: NJ
Assuming everybody wants to blessed and that's their problem if they don't appreciate the thought is the primary issue.... especially after knowing it's an issue for some. It shows a total lack of respect, exactly the opposite of what you write.

I know it wouldn't change around here, and my feeling respectfully is you have no respect for me as a survivor should you choose to overtly " push" a belief system.

Luckily I'm not a debilitated survivor and my day w ill go on... I choose not to connect with any survivor here who shown me a lack of respect or common courtesy.
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