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#447161 - 09/14/13 01:20 AM Re: Did I Prostitute Myself? [Re: Chase Eric]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1369
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Chase Eric
I'm sorry, Jude. Maybe I should have just said, "It's not your fault - you were just a kid." And as true as that platitude is, it doesn't go nearly deep enough..... I won't tell you anything that I won't tell myself. We did what we had to do.
Erick,

I do understand your point, assigning the blame for what happened seems to be a total paradox. I didn't set out thinking "Maybe if I have oral sex with Tim, he will like me better and let me hang out with him more." I didn't set out thinking anything at all. I just found someone who seemed to think I was a good kid and gave me the drugs and alcohol that I wanted.

I am only guilty of wanting MORE. The guilt for crossing the "no-sex-with-children" boundry was his alone.

Still, that boy who molested, that boy who didn't run or fight back, "looks back at us in the mirror every day" as you said. As much as I want to ask him "Why did you let this happen to us?" I'm too afraid the answer will be "Because I wanted it to happen". And I just can't live with that.
_________________________
"When I was a child
I caught a fleeting glimpse
Out of the corner of my eye
I turned to look but it was gone
I cannot put my finger on it now
The child is grown, the dream is gone
And I have become comfortably numb."
Pink Floyd

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#447168 - 09/14/13 08:13 AM Re: Did I Prostitute Myself? [Re: Jude]
genedebs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/12
Posts: 262
Loc: MO
Jude, Erik, and all

When I was 13 my mother put this man in my life to take care of me when I was sick and home from school. What I wanted was to mail a gift box of chocolates to the girl back in Detroit where I used to live until 6 weeks ago. So, as he crawled over my body and told me it was normal in ancient greek culture, I thought I was prostituting myself.

I know today it isn't true. Today I am struggling with having to disentangle my mother from incest, crushing disregard, narcisism, and tremendous learning opportunities.

I acknowledge that I was not in a position to make meaningful choices. One disasterous choice versus another really isn't a choice. It is just how we survived.

Simply put, to wake up, come out of a black out, or whatever with to wake with him in your mouth is being raped. It is sexual assault. It is a crime whether you were 6 years old or 50. This is not prostitution.

But, I don't think that is the real question. The question is if you got something in return, were you complicit. The answer should be obvious, and would be if we weren't so distorted in our thinking. No one does anything unless there is some reason for doing it. The idea that you had a reason for doing it makes you a prostitute is nuts.

I believed for decades that if I did anything professionally that was the least bit of a compromise, I was prostituting myself. So I was a prostitute because I couldn't be perfect, and I didn't live in a perfect world. So, I do understand how to turn my self perception into prostitution. It is a very harmful delusion.

We all have different stories and we all are just the same.

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#447182 - 09/14/13 12:00 PM Re: Did I Prostitute Myself? [Re: Jude]
DannyT Offline
Member

Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 402
Jude,

You say, "Still, that boy who was molested, that boy who didn't run or fight back, looks back at us in the mirror every day. As much as I want to ask him 'Why did you let this happen to us?' I'm too afraid the answer will be 'Because I wanted it to happen.' And I just can't live with that."

I think you'll find that there are a lot of us who have struggled with the reality that the abuse was pleasurable in some way, for whatever reason: it could just be that it felt good, that it made one feel wanted or loved, etc: there are many reasons.

That reality is one of the complexities of life with CSA.

It certainly was true for me. My abuser was my dad. I knew if I walked out onto the deck when he was drunk he would probably touch me in ways that undeniably felt amazing (and terribly disturbing).

Did I want more? Yes. Was I glad when he said, "this has to stop"? Yes.

It's very complicated.

What I come back to is the reality that I never wanted the situation to start with. I would never have wanted or expected any of the sensations (which I knew were wrong, even though they felt amazing).

I think those of us in this situation have to be willing to face the reality that we wanted more, because to deny it would be to deny a reality. At the same time, we need to understand that we were young and totally unable to make anything like an informed decision about what was going on.

We also need to let ourselves off the hook of blame for the repercussions of the situation, which are the worst elements of the abuse. If only these things carried no future weight!

We also need to use the right words when we describe what happened, so that we see the events cleanly and without meanness. For example, I would say, "My father, warped by some inner demons I'll never understand, chose to involve me in his psychodrama. He used the pretense of sex ed to engage in some really inappropriate behavior. Then I, wanting and needing his love (which I never otherwise felt), shocked and disturbed out of my normal development and troubled by adolescent hormones, wanted more of the contact. I couldn't see at the time what it was doing to me, and I wish it had never happened."

Then I need to accept the reality of that whole picture. It doesn't make me any the less the victim of CSA that my story goes this way. It's just my particular adventure down the dark path.

So, when I ask the question you asked of younger self, "Why did you let this happen to us?" The answer needs to be, "You've got it wrong. I didn't let this happen to us. Our dad did this to us. All I did was go with the flow. I got trapped, and I would have given anything for your 20/20 vision of the scene. Unfortunately, I was a kid being abused, and I did the best I could."

I guess what I'm really saying is that we have to say that whatever our response was to being abused, it was the best we could do at the time. And that has to be OK. It has to be enough. Then it becomes our responsibility today to pick up the pieces and make our lives whole.

We can do that because we're safe. Those younger selves got us through as best they could. They're our heroes in a way. They endured so we could get past the bad and into the now.

I hope this is helpful,

Danny


Edited by DannyT (09/14/13 12:05 PM)

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#447189 - 09/14/13 01:14 PM Re: Did I Prostitute Myself? [Re: genedebs]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1206
...


Edited by Chase Eric (11/21/13 08:39 PM)
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#447296 - 09/15/13 03:38 PM Re: Did I Prostitute Myself? [Re: Jude]
ShortedDiode Offline


Registered: 11/26/11
Posts: 82
Loc: Hamilton, ON Canada
I struggle with this too, since I went back to "work" for my second perp when I was in high school to get money to buy Christmas presents for my family in the mid 90's and sold myself for $20. It was a decision between between knowing what was going to happen with the perp vs. knowing what my parents would have unleashed if I didn't put any gifts under the Christmas tree. I don't think anybody here who was forced to choose between different choices that are all bad under shitty circumstances with a mind clouded by the experiences we've all had in order to survive is prostitution. We did what we had to survive the situations that adults put us in. Intellectually, I think many of us understand that but coming to grips with it emotionally is something I think most of us have a lot of trouble with. I sure do.
_________________________
If it's a choice between laughing or crying, I'd rather laugh.

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#447297 - 09/15/13 03:50 PM Re: Did I Prostitute Myself? [Re: Jude]
Sven Offline


Registered: 07/29/13
Posts: 196
Something I struggle with myself, too.
At a certain point i didnt really care about the sexual abuse..
I did crave the attention they gave me so at a certain point i went home with / did anything for anyone who was nice to me.
I didn't consider myself a prostitute.. After all I didn't ask money for it right? Though it wasn't really all that different.
I went to that place deliberately where old perverts came to pick up young boys for sex.. So it feels like my own fault, esp since most of the time if i'd said no, nothing would have happened. I wouldn't have met S. or B. either then. Right now it feels easier to just give in to survive, rather then challenge them.
You know mentally it wasn't your fault most of the time. But your feelings say something else, and so often they win the debate..
_________________________
In the howling wind
Comes a stinging rain
See it driving nails
Into souls on the tree of pain
From the firefly a red orange glow
See the face of fear
Running scared in the valley below
~ Bullet The Blue Sky - U2

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#447313 - 09/15/13 09:11 PM Re: Did I Prostitute Myself? [Re: Jude]
JayBro Offline


Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 223
Loc: Germany
This thread has resonated with me as well... having been abused from my early teens but onwards until I was 20. I too feel guilt for my age, and it is indeed easier to talk about the earlier stuff that happened versus the stuff that occurred later on. All of it was ABUSE and I was a VICTIM through and through, however that is a tidbit I need to constantly remind myself. Call it machoism, call it victim-blaming, I just feel like "most people" would refuse to accept the later experiences as abuse. "Perhaps they might just see it as the actions of an irresponsible youth?"

However, when I tell others about the extent of my abuse and the full scale of what happened, they do not blame me and they end up re-assuring me to not blame myself. I feel regret that it all happened, and I also feel regret for my naitivity. I think that this feeling of self-regret and guilt has interfered with my sexuality- making me feel so "unattractive" around other gay men or like damaged goods that no one would be interested in.

Like many of you, I never had a proper introduction to adult sexuality or dating, and these feelings of regret, guilt, and sexual worthlessness from my later abuse experiences creep in, preventing me from feeling comfortable and taking the next step in my recovery.
_________________________
H.U.G.S.- Helping Us Grow Spiritually

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#447432 - 09/17/13 07:48 AM Re: Did I Prostitute Myself? [Re: Jude]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1369
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Jude
Still, that boy who molested, that boy who didn't run or fight back, "looks back at us in the mirror every day" as you said. As much as I want to ask him "Why did you let this happen to us?" I'm too afraid the answer will be "Because I wanted it to happen". And I just can't live with that.

Just to bring this thread to a close, I asked my younger self that question with the help of my T, and his answer was:

"I wanted love, attention, and to be made to feel worthwhile. The sexual abuse was the price I paid to get those things. Not the other way round. I was not the prostitute. But I didn't understand then, that the price ultimately would be my life.

After that we hugged and went to skip stones on the pond.
_________________________
"When I was a child
I caught a fleeting glimpse
Out of the corner of my eye
I turned to look but it was gone
I cannot put my finger on it now
The child is grown, the dream is gone
And I have become comfortably numb."
Pink Floyd

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#447462 - 09/17/13 01:13 PM Re: Did I Prostitute Myself? [Re: Jude]
Rich1967 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 264
Loc: PA
Love. That really is what it's all about. We need it from both men and women when we are growing up and when we don't get it it has a profound effect on us.

Jude - I am so happy you are able to love and accept little Jude now.

Thanks for starting this thread and trying to close it out :-)

From rich ((((((jude)))))) from RICH ((((((JUDE))))))
_________________________
Rich

"Me too" - I don't think I will ever get tired of saying or hearing these two words.

My Story:
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=441625#Post441625

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#447467 - 09/17/13 02:15 PM Re: Did I Prostitute Myself? [Re: Jude]
JayBro Offline


Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 223
Loc: Germany
Yes, Jude, that was very beautiful what you wrote and experienced!! smile
_________________________
H.U.G.S.- Helping Us Grow Spiritually

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