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#447130 - 09/13/13 04:22 PM how to be here
focusedbody Offline


Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 355
Loc: NY


Hello to all.

It is difficult to say this now. MS has been a good place for me to share my true self, my true desires. But like other survivors may have experienced, I now find myself in a place where there seems to be a strong force within that is attempting to override.

It is painful to experience, as well to see it happen to others. All I can say is I have a sense that what I am experiencing is structural dissociation. For me itís a kind of split where there seems to be always two ways to go. When I go down one path, the other is left behind.

Iím not sure what help I am going to need. I feel distress but also hope. What makes sense for me to do is to be familiar with both paths. They are both me. They donít know each other, but who knows what can happen in time.

My dilemma is that as much as I enjoy the website, Iím a bit afraid at this point about participating here. What may happen is a further split, as I employ different means for different posts and responses. I may provide support to others but be empty inside because of a lack of wholeness.

Would appreciate any thoughts.

Warmly,

FB



Edited by focusedbody (09/13/13 04:52 PM)
Edit Reason: mentioning other survivors
_________________________
Lose the drama; life is a poem.

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#447141 - 09/13/13 08:42 PM Re: how to be here [Re: focusedbody]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2017
Loc: durham, north england
Well fb, on the one hand I completely applaud your self knolidge, however on the other, posting on ms is unlike most other experiences you will have (or at least it has always been for me), and thus is more difficult to evaluate.

I removed ms from my favourites four times after starting recovery, even on one occasionn going so far as to clear my brousers history, cookies, and delete all traces of my visit to the site from my computer so that I couldn't possibly retrieve it.

This was very much due to denial. I didn't want to acknolidge the effects that the sa had on me or my life, I wanted to say "yes, it's done, I'm fine it's over with!"

this was of course totally wrong as it turned out.

On several future occasions I've had dramatically similar thoughts "oh all that recovery nonsense is finished, I'm better now" which again, I now realize was an attempt to minimise on my part, and one which was incorrect.

At the moment my position is I come on ms when I either feel I need to, or when I think I am in a position to be helpful to someone else. If this means occasional absenceor lapses back into one of those nights, well fair enough since that is all part of being a surviver and I came to the conclusion that the only hard and fast rule about ms I could make was not to make any rules laugh.

Regarding supporting others, well one thing I have noticed myself is that it is far easier for me to feel compassion, empathy and desire to help others than myself. Even in my most dire moments, in absolute apothy, if someone else! asked me to do something for them, or was in a state of pain that I felt I could at least try and offer some insite about, I would do it. Not to make me feel better, not because I had a duty, simply because I desired to do something for someone with a similar problem to mine.

it didn't matter how bad I was feeling at the time, since this feeling, though based on my own empathy, was not in any sense self motivated.

I don't say this to pretend to be some sort of ultra saint, ---- I'm certainly not that and am just as capable of being pig headed, stubborn, and selfish as anyone, however there is! a desire I have to help others, especially those who's problems and emotional state I could in some way share.

Thus, I can quite understand why you offer others support while feeling absolutely awful yourself. This just says your a decent human being, nothing else.

Whether you decide to carry on with ms is up to you, but personally i'd not recommend making any rules either way, just post if you wish, and not if you don't, if you need to talk about you, do that, and if you want to try and help someone else, do that too. That is indeed part of the great bennifit and liberation of an internet forum, there are no obligations or requirements.

Whether you decide to carry on or not, I'm really glad to have heard about your journey and had your thoughts on mine and other people's.

Luke.

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#447148 - 09/13/13 11:06 PM Re: how to be here [Re: focusedbody]
focusedbody Offline


Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 355
Loc: NY
Luke:

Thanks. It was good just to see my words and have your response.

I think there is some denial in there and I try to replace it with rules so that I don't have to deal with the ongoing confusion.

This reminds me of how therapeutic processes are peeling back one layer at a time, and we don't always know what's coming next: emptiness, feeling awful or something more solid. And this proceeds without obligation -- perhaps because wanting something more, we want to make discoveries that lead us there.

Peace

FB
_________________________
Lose the drama; life is a poem.

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#447155 - 09/14/13 12:40 AM Re: how to be here [Re: focusedbody]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1557
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: focusedbody
My dilemma is that as much as I enjoy the website, Iím a bit afraid at this point about participating here.... I may provide support to others but be empty inside because of a lack of wholeness.
FB,
Honestly, we're ALL empty inside and lack wholeness. Its not our great wisdom or brilliant insights that are needed here. Its just being a guy who listens and "gets it" that matters most on the MS community.

Consider the time you may take away from MS as a "break" not a final goodbye. I took a 3 month break and learned from it, among other things, that I need you guys to stay (barely) sane.

Jude
_________________________
Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine.
Sheryl Crow

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#447229 - 09/14/13 08:49 PM Re: how to be here [Re: focusedbody]
focusedbody Offline


Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 355
Loc: NY
Jude:

What's difficult is how confusing pain can be when it overwhelms you. For a long time I thought that pain was simply a signpost meant to direct me on a different path. Nowadays it is that and so much more.

Thanks for letting me hear my voice. Like a lonesome yet curious prairie dog, it may not be long before I once again try to take a good look around.

FB
_________________________
Lose the drama; life is a poem.

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#447324 - 09/15/13 10:36 PM Re: how to be here [Re: focusedbody]
Publius Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 396
Loc: OH
"This reminds me of how therapeutic processes are peeling back one layer at a time, and we don't always know what's coming next: emptiness, feeling awful or something more solid."

You nailed it. The unfortunate thing is some layers make us feel depressed, lonely, afraid, etc. Recovery marks the first time in our lives that we are actually processing the trauma we endured as children. It is important we do not forget the nature of the horror we went through. We were raped. Not only that we were raped at a time when our brains/beliefs were still in a developmental state. I am just shooting from the hip here but I happen to believe a lot of us have to unlearn what we were taught by the abuse while learning what we should have been taught by a normal childhood. It is as if our mind is hitting the reset button emotionally but this throws us into a state of flux. As a result, we sometimes feel crazy, anxious, afraid, out of control, etc. but with the self-awareness and reflection you've demonstrated in this post these things become a part of the recovery process rather than an end unto themselves. How to be here? You are here. You are facing your trauma, processing the myriad feelings, and ultimately walking down the unique path of recovery familiar but not altogether known by each of us who are walking along our own.
_________________________
"Life is like this dark tunnel. You may not always see the light at the end of the tunnel, but if you keep moving, you will come to a better place." ~ General Iroh

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#447348 - 09/16/13 09:24 AM Re: how to be here [Re: focusedbody]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2017
Loc: durham, north england
Well fb, yes, pain is bad, and there is no point denying recovery involves lots of it. Different people have differnt perspectives, but myself the one thing I can say is that I know I can live through it.

There are times I've been hopeful, times I've looked to the future, but when it comes down to nothing but shear, blinding pain, to being in absolute darkness, there is one and only one thing that keeps me going, ---- the knolidge that I can. as I've said before, persistance is the one constant.

This is really what to me at least recovery means. I opened the door, I started climbing that particular mountain without any really clear idea what's up there. Much of the time I don't even look upwards or realize I'm moving at all, just reduce down to basic movements, to nothing but endurence, even though often it feels like I'm not moving at all. It's not really until I look back that I realize I've actually climbed quite a long way.

this is why rules are only really helpful as general resolutions, not as absolutes, indeed that's something I'm only just coming to recognize myself, just how problematic clinging to an absolute rule can be and how much harm it can do, even when it is an attempt at self diciplin.

This is why I'd personally not recommend making any rules about ms, since ms is one of the few places I've found myself where I can actually express pain, resolution, fear and all the other fun things, without having to feel constantly guilty as I would if I tried to talk to someone else, and of course by being hear and reading something someone else writes and perhaps responding if I feel I can I might be able to be helpful as well.

That of course,is another major point about ms, since frankly people don't! realize, indeed in my personal experience (and I know others have had differnt ones), even my attempts at therapy didn't help too much due to the counsellors I tried not really getting much of this.

Luke.

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#447408 - 09/16/13 10:37 PM Re: how to be here [Re: focusedbody]
justplainme Offline


Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 318
We can never go back to pretending like something as Abuse never happened to us..the unconscious always has a way of making you aknowledge your own truth and reality..
Like Freud said;"where does a thought go, after you forget it?"
Answer is..it's always there..
For me..I know I will always come back to MaleSurvivor.
I find its my personal responsibility to share and help others that have suffered as much as we all have.
Otherwise what's the point of all that suffering we received.
Your brain will always try and find a way to incorporate the abuse into your life,some numb it out with drugs, others ignore the reality and become emotionally destroyed, and the most hideous end.. Some act out their inner life commiting destructive acts of rape to innocent children.
I hope you always come back if not to support do it to be supported, I like to think we are a brotherhood of men.
Before the abuse we already were..all men.
And after the abuse we should be more comprehensive men towards each other.
So come back always please..if only at least so you know..you're not alone.
_________________________

"Survivors need an opportunity to define their own sexuality in their own terms, rather than in reaction to the abuse, so that they stop allowing their offenders to have power over them sexually."

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#447413 - 09/16/13 10:54 PM Re: how to be here [Re: focusedbody]
focusedbody Offline


Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 355
Loc: NY
Luke:

I really love your understanding of the rules, i.e. the way we experience the lack of rules and how in some ways, it makes one feel a little bolder and maybe a little safer. The website is an opportunity to go where we need to go. Thatís important because at some point it was taken away. Whether it was running away when necessary or standing up to a situation, looking it in the eye and making it clear where the boundaries are; those are things that are out of the comfort zone and need to be taken seriously.

Publius:

Thanks for the words of encouragement. Most of my life encouragement has fallen short, probably because true support is being there while I face the innermost trauma. How the hell this can be done with any consistency often seems beyond me, but as you said, my growing awareness says something about how Iím willing to hang in there. At first all of the feelings make you think something is wrong. But then it begins to be clear that this wrongness is just confirmation of what truly happened.

Peace and healing,

FB
_________________________
Lose the drama; life is a poem.

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#447429 - 09/17/13 05:46 AM Re: how to be here [Re: focusedbody]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2017
Loc: durham, north england
@Fb, it is extremely true that rules help us feel safe, especially those rules we make for ourselves, and even more if we are the sort of people who only respect! self imposed rules.

Indeed this is something I've recently realized myself. though I am both naturally and experiencially inclined to say "society can go and jump in a lake! only individuals matter", I still am guilty of imposing rules on myself, of saying "this is what I will do" and thus confining what I actually am experiencing.


Again, ms is likely the only place I could have this discussion, indeed it's sort of interesting for me having studdied philosophy for a good few years to realize just how naked a self is when you remove the restrictions of requiring logic or formality of arguement and just being! in words.

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