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#4470 - 06/16/05 06:35 PM Trained not to be a man
ForeverFighting Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: New Mexico, USA
I come from a family of powerful women and abusive men. It's the perfect recipe to mess with a boy's mind.

My mom taught me that my dad was lazy and stupid. He showed me that he was unpredictable, could lose his temper at any moment, and he was perfectly willing and able to hurt me. He tried to show his power. His idea of playing with the kids was to lay on the floor and have me and my sister try to keep him from getting up. He thought this was a great, fun game until I started growing. I remember the day he couldn't get up. Suddenly the game went bad, he blew into a rage and told me to get out of the house.

My uncle (dad's brother) was also unpredictable. He used to play with us--the same kind of rough play. Until the day he SA me. Again, the game had gone bad.

I had learned that being a man was bad. I remember, if you can believe it, praying when I was about 11 that my voice wouldn't change. I would do anything if God would keep me from turning into a man. Men were selfish, uncaring, unpredictable, mean, judgemental, violent, lazy, fat, stupid, and they would use another person as easily as turning on the TV. I would NOT become that. So I became the workaholic helper that never gained any weight. I never raised my voice or expressed my anger. And I used myself through porn and MB over and over and over so that I would never ever use anyone else. That stayed with me long into marraige. Sex was using another person, and I wouldn't do it.

I've come a long way. I'm here on a site full of men saying these words out loud. That never would have happened before. But I still have trouble with men. A family we love has a boy that's hit 14. He's always looked up to me, combed his hair like me, said stupid jokes like me. But I see man in him now, and it scares me. He stands too close, like he always did as a kid, but it was OK then. Now it makes me uncomfortable. He's becoming a threat to my safety. Another man at a meeting the other day came over and started talking to me. He's never done that. I can see that he wants to be friends, he needs to have a normal relationship with another guy at these meetings. I can't do it. He's a man. A cabinet-making, mechanically minded, emotionless man wanting to have idle chit-chat with me. I back away and try to get him talking to somebody else. He follows, because he probably thinks he and I could be friends. I leave and start talking to a woman.

In my mind still, men are judgemental. They want something from me. They expect me to be somebody I'm not to please them. Some days I detest this thing between my legs. Especially the days when things are hectic and emotional, when men are arguing and people are upset at me. It's still in me. If I could just be something I'm not, people will be happy.

Abuse isn't an event, it's a lifetime of training by a cast of mis-shapen characters in a bizaar play nobody wants to see. It's training by moms and dads and grandparents and aunts and uncles that I am nothing and I never will be as long as I'm a man.

This site gives me hope that it's OK to be a man and feel what I feel. It's a very vulnerable place, writing a post like this, but it's who I am and where I came from. I believe it's possible now to be a man and not be judgemental. I can be angry without losing my temper and hurting others. I can care and feel in front of others. That's my goal. Little by little, I'll find it.

_________________________
ForeverFighting

"This search for the truth--it's not for the faint of heart."--Goren on 'Law & Order: CI'
"The former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart."--Isaiah 65:17

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#4471 - 06/16/05 06:59 PM Re: Trained not to be a man
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
FF, I hear a lot of what you say,

Quote:
Abuse isn't an event, it's a lifetime of training by a cast of mis-shapen characters in a bizaar play nobody wants to see.
Its a lifetime exposure to negative thought.
I wanted to be anything except a boy when I was 11yo onwards.

I saw all men as potentially evil, and that included teachers, doctors and dentists or whoever was a man.

I think that it may be the boy side of you, that makes you so uncomfortable with men. I too feel inimidated sometimes by men, and if I take exception to some of their actions, then they perceive that I need their help.
Like Whoa!!

Many of us think along the same lines as yourself, and it is not hard to see why, but maybe you show the World what it is to be a real man, with compassion and care.

Abuse turns most of us into isolatory people, so our emotions are suppressed, and it is not right, and it hurts loads, to all the wrong people.

You can safely say that we all think you should be the proud man, for being here today,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#4472 - 06/17/05 04:26 PM Re: Trained not to be a man
self_righting Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 69
Loc: Tampa, FL
reality2k4 made a good point that got me to thinking. I have some of the same issues with men and children but especially authority figures. I know that it is the wounded boy within that is frightened by men and afraid of the taunting from children. I try to remeber that now when I am interacting with men or children. I try to remember that those who hurt me are not representative of everyone. There are good people out there. I don't always catch myself before the fear starts talking but usually I do. I accept it and remind myself that while I was powerless as a boy, now I am a grown man and I can protect myself and especially that wounded boy within. Don't get me wrong, I am no macho muscle guy...I am pretty scrawny but I trust my instincts to help me avoid dicey situatuions. Hopefully you understand what I trying to express...


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#4473 - 06/17/05 05:58 PM Re: Trained not to be a man
Sinking Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/26/03
Posts: 577
Loc: Took my ball and went home.
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Abuse isn't an event, it's a lifetime of training by a cast of mis-shapen characters in a bizaar play nobody wants to see.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Its a lifetime exposure to negative thought.
I wanted to be anything except a boy when I was 11yo onwards.
Seems to me you've both just contradicted yourselves in a beautiful way. Neither of you, in fact most of us here, because we are here and are seeking help elsewhere as well, are doomed to a lifetime of anything. You see, as I see, the potential to change, not only ourselves but the generations we help to mold from here on. We are breaking the cycle of fat, lazy, violent, emotionless 'men'. We are becoming the men we should have had raising us, teaching us, molding us. We've learned from them, not always the right things, too often the wrong things. But we can, we should teach the boys in our lives what it really means to be a man, to be a person. We are on our way. - John


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#4474 - 06/17/05 07:35 PM Re: Trained not to be a man
delta.tetra Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 108
Loc: Netherlands
FF
I also learned being a man is bad. My dad had sex-change operations and did everything possible to hide the fact he'd ever been a man, and when he SA me he would show disgust, shame and sadness, are the relevant emotions about male genitels. Men never got into the house. I didn't want to grow up. I have never talked openly to a man. It sure does me good to read that other men can feel bad about being a man. And live through it. thanks for writing it down.


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#4475 - 06/19/05 03:39 AM Re: Trained not to be a man
Grobut Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/05
Posts: 56
Loc: Denmark
Thats one of the things i still have to work hard on, accepting my gender.

For the most part i've come far, i have more selfrespect than ever before, i know what i stand for, what i'll accept and what i wont, and im starting to be proud of that and happy with it.. but i still see myself as a non-gender, im obviously not a woman, but seeing myself as a man.. just writing that i shuddered.

I have allways seen men as weak-minded, repulsive, cruel, and potentially evil, which is not supricing giving what i grew up with, a dad that was never there, a man that raped me, and all the other boys who mocked me and beat me up because i was an easy target.. changing that view on men is not going to be easy.

_________________________
"Bring back the Superman in me, Clark Kent is such a nerveous wreck" - Kashmir

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#4476 - 06/19/05 08:42 AM Re: Trained not to be a man
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
FF

Quote:
A family we love has a boy that's hit 14. He's always looked up to me, combed his hair like me, said stupid jokes like me.
Quote:
Another man at a meeting the other day came over and started talking to me. He's never done that. I can see that he wants to be friends, he needs to have a normal relationship with another guy at these meetings. I can't do it. He's a man. A cabinet-making, mechanically minded, emotionless man wanting to have idle chit-chat with me. I back away and try to get him talking to somebody else. He follows, because he probably thinks he and I could be friends.
That you are a man is undeniable. And it seems, from your recent experiences, that other men are validating your worth by wanting to spend time with you. How kewl is that?
Peace, Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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#4477 - 06/20/05 01:49 AM Re: Trained not to be a man
FEELNLOWBRO Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/19/05
Posts: 22
There is a part of me that says I can never be accepted by other men as male, the belief that there is something, anything, no matter how seemingly minor, that will disqualify me from being accepted by the other guys as male. In this part of myself I am still like at the beginnings of my teens, wanting the warm acceptance of other males in my group, which doesn't and didn't exist. One of the key areas where I have this fear about something at root being missing or incomplete or insufficient is in going to the gym to compete with other men; I can go and play but I feel the deep fear of competition, like I have to psychologically destroy the other male and not be humiliated, which I cannot stand. I also fear going to the shower rooms and being seen.

I know this sounds wierd but when I go to a pool and smell the chlorine it reminds me of the very unpleasant feeling I had in possibly competing with other males.

It is hard for me to accept psychologically and physically that I am adequate to being accepted as a male "by the other boys" of my past and still cotninuing as a thought to this daya. I will write more later.



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#4478 - 06/20/05 10:46 PM Re: Trained not to be a man
ForeverFighting Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: New Mexico, USA
This was helpful to me. I think your responses are right. It's the little boy in me afraid of never being able to live up to "that man's" expectations.

I also think it's about role models. I had a grandfather that was very good to me, and I try to imitate the wonderful things about him in the way he dealt with me when I was little. But he died when I was 5. So when this male to male relationship changes to one where we are more equals, I freak. I do know how to be a good uncle or older brother, but when it changes to an equal relationship, that's like playing basketball together and trying to figure out what the other guy wants me to be. I can't read his mind, his interests are probably different from mine, and I don't know how to conform. It's what I learned. So I run or be mean, like FeelnLow said. Try to keep the other guy less than me so I don't have to try to live up to anything. He has to.

Obviously this is something I'm going to have to work on for a while.

Thank you for your responses. Men equals being judged. I have to do what's right for me instead of trying to play whatever role I think the man expects. I don't know if I'm going to get that through my brain anytime soon.

_________________________
ForeverFighting

"This search for the truth--it's not for the faint of heart."--Goren on 'Law & Order: CI'
"The former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart."--Isaiah 65:17

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