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#446858 - 09/10/13 06:43 PM !
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
!


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (02/28/14 09:41 PM)

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#446862 - 09/10/13 07:05 PM Re: Dawkins Under Fire for ‘Mild Pedophilia’ Remarks [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1551
Absolutely disgusting. Shows continued ignorance by some of the damage pedopholia causes.

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#446864 - 09/10/13 07:17 PM Re: Dawkins Under Fire for ‘Mild Pedophilia’ Remarks [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
traveler Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3317
Loc: back in the USA
"mild pedophilia" is that like "slightly dead"?
sounds like an oxymoron to me - coined by a maxi-moron!
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there are many enemies, but we are never without a friend;
and though badly hurt at times, we are not destroyed.
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#446867 - 09/10/13 07:58 PM Re: Dawkins Under Fire for ‘Mild Pedophilia’ Remarks [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
SoccerStar Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
Dawkins has long been on the record as saying that his own case was "embarrassing but ultimately harmless," though with the caveat that he of course does not minimize the "pain and disgust" of sodomy victims.

People have different levels of resilience, cognizance, ego, and safety, all of which contribute to different post-SA outcomes. Dawkins has no right to project and presume his own circumstances and responses onto anybody else.


UPDATE - WITH TRIGGERS:

Here is a more detailed account of the incident in Dawkins' own words. What's notable is that he describes himself AT THAT TIME as having been revolted and horrified, running away at first opportunity and asking his friends for help... only for them to dismiss it, because they'd all gotten it already too. It seems he internalized and echoed their dismissiveness. He also reports being subject to multiple attempted rapes while at boarding school but that he fought those boys off - and of this he seems unaffected altogether.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyath...-comments-okay/

Seems like artificial numbness. I feel sorry for him now.


Matt
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"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#446868 - 09/10/13 09:05 PM Re: Dawkins Under Fire for ‘Mild Pedophilia’ Remarks [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
ThisMan Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/13
Posts: 767
Loc: upper south
I have heard the remarks before. A man who was abused many times in his childhood once told me that it had little to no effect on him as a man. He never sought treatment, never dealt with the abuse and all that it does. He was a rapist with a sadistic personality that emerged at times. I know... I was his victim.

I am not outraged by the remarks. They are foolish, condescending to the victims and families, and socially irresponsible. Calmly I say, "Fuck you, Dawkins". And those fools who minimize and blame the victim in any sexual assault.
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#446899 - 09/11/13 11:23 AM Re: Dawkins Under Fire for ‘Mild Pedophilia’ Remarks [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
CruxFidelis Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
I've never been a fan of Dawkins or New Atheism (or even old fashioned atheism) so my opinion of him is even lower now.

I'm kind of torn in my reaction.

On one hand, I think his comments had to do with understanding systematic evil as being ingrained in the culture during certain time periods, for example American racism in the 19th century. He thinks that we should look at certain time periods in their cultural context...and I believe he was saying that a racist in our time is worse than a racist in a time when the culture did not tolerate it. As someone who believes in objective moral good and objective moral evil, I think wholeheartedly disagree with him, however I can see what he was trying to say, and I don't think he was meaning to offend survivors in this way. Regardless of what he meant, though, it is incredibly offensive to me.

There is no excuse for giving "mild pedophiles" a free pass no matter how much the culture tolerated it. And there is never ever a reason to minimize its effects.

I remember when my therapist told me I had Post-Traumatic-Stress-Disorder. For the first time since before the rape, I felt really angry. Why am I the one who is slapped with the disorder? Why isn't the rapist walking around with a mental health diagnosis? Why am I the one getting labeled?

I asked my therapist, "Are there people who go through things like rape and abuse without having flashbacks and other PTSD symptoms?" He said that there might be some people who are more prone to internalize trauma than others, but more research has to be done. The diagnosis made me feel like I was a weaker man for not being able to just move on from the rape.

These comments just dig into that old wound and reminds me that maybe there are stronger men out there that that could have handled it better.
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#446911 - 09/11/13 02:50 PM Re: Dawkins Under Fire for ‘Mild Pedophilia’ Remarks [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
Jacob S Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 591
I have a lot of respect for Dawkins in terms of his ability to think critically and form conclusions about the physical world. I don't think a comment like this has anything to do with him being an atheist. There have been plenty of religious people who have said similarly hurtful things.

Dawkins does however have a well-known history of saying insensitive and stupid things about just about everything else. He's been on a roll of saying stupid things lately (this article sums up most of it http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/08/short-history-richard-dawkins-vs-internet/68149/ )

I think this can be filed under "don't go a hardware store to buy a gallon of milk." Dawkins is a man who is very good at his field of science and very bad at just about everything else. Its too bad, but its not very unusual.
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who can count on his remaining limbs
all the people he can trust.
Like the one who stands behind him
cheering him on
Estatic when he stands defiant,
wild with abandon when he's gone

just stay alive.
do whatever you need to.
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#446962 - 09/12/13 06:29 AM Re: Dawkins Under Fire for ‘Mild Pedophilia’ Remarks [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Ohio
Just maybe his lack of understanding on this and moral relativism comes from his theory that there is no God and therefor no moral absolutes.

The thought also occurs to me that people who themselves have become abusers and never been outed, are in the midst of manipulating themselves and others that nothing bad happened, may display a minimalization of others pain.
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#446967 - 09/12/13 08:10 AM Re: Dawkins Under Fire for ‘Mild Pedophilia’ Remarks [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
Quote:
Just maybe his lack of understanding on this and moral relativism comes from his theory that there is no God and therefor no moral absolutes.


Actually..... maybe not.

Dawkins does believe in moral absolutes and takes absolutist stands on many issues (as does every atheist I've ever encountered). He is turning a blind eye to what he considers "mild" due to his well-documented bubble of disconnected upperclass British academic privilege - as had been demonstrated by "ElevatorGate" years ago when he said if he wasn't worried about being raped by a man who followed him into an elevator at 4am then a woman shouldn't be worried about it either.

More importantly, many other atheists including PZ Myers (and, fwiw, myself) are aghast at his behavior in all of these circumstances. See:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/09/09/i-beseech-you-in-the-bowels-of-christ-please-stop

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyath...-comments-okay/


Matt
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My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#446968 - 09/12/13 09:37 AM Re: Dawkins Under Fire for ‘Mild Pedophilia’ Remarks [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
Still Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6365
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
******TRIGGERS******

Regarding Degrees of Severity: No such thing. NO such measure or scale can be applied to the child's soul-injury.

But let's say, for feel-good, Fluffy Little Kittens' sake that there IS such a thing as degrees of severity. "Just a hand up the shorts" etc.

How many trusted men's trouser-travels does little Billy have to endure before "we" say "OK...this is too much." How many times does each mild-abuser (or man with needs) does Billy have to satisfy with his gaping shorts? How many men, how many hand on his penis have to occur before a man with no absolutes of law observed says "i think he's had enough."

MAGNITUDE: Magnitude of abuse. Been talking a lot about this in T lately. "Magnitude" seems to have a HUGE role in our survivor/victim/corpse lives. You'll hear the excuse-makers use it continually in any conversation, by any a party involved with a case. For people who have no absolutes in life's laws or public policy, 'magnitude' becomes the greatest focal point for rationalizing an end to the un-comfy issue as quickly as can be realized, but not for the victim's sake, its for those around the victim.

Class Exercise -- See if you can identify the "magnitude" word(s) in these statements:

- "Oh...it was just a little penis grab up his shorts. You really gonna put a man in JAIL for that?"

- Its not like he was fucked or anything.

- It only went on for a month or so (according to the abuser).

- This is no big deal. Its been dealt with. Let's all just move-on with our lives.

- [Judge] "We are only talking about very minor incidents here which could easily be misunderstood or confused in youth-related verbalization or drama."

- This is SO minor that its barely worth mentioning.

Works both ways too: Right? Does'nt Billy's Dad or older brother get to enjoy moral relativism and adherence to minor magnitude?

- Oh...its just a little straight-razor on your penis you pervert. It will only happen once.


Edited by Still (09/12/13 09:40 AM)
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