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#446222 - 09/02/13 11:06 AM Re: Michael Reagan: Child abuse makes people gay [Re: GoldStone]
Chase Eric Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1486
...


Edited by Chase Eric (11/21/13 08:55 PM)
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#446230 - 09/02/13 02:32 PM Re: Michael Reagan: Child abuse makes people gay [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 918
Loc: New York
I wouldn't worry about the thread being closed at this time.

Let's turn past the question of the biological accuracy of lifelong devoted sexual orientation - because even if it isn't biologically accurate, it is an emotionally true element of one's identity. We are now talking about the intersections of sexuality, identity, and cultural norms.

And with that in mind - Goldstone, it is noteworthy that you describe the "ex-gay movement" as "helping SSA'ed men stay in their marriages." If the preferred term is "SSA" then their primary orientation can't be gay, or else they'd just say they were gay. There is an entire subculture of MSM (men who have sex with men) for reasons that are at odds with their primary sexual orientation - whether they are deprived of female contact, or in need of certain sex acts the women in their lives won't do well or at all, or are exploring a kink that simply can't be expressed with women at all. Dan Savage is a pretty eminent authority on sex and he has said that on his experience, the entire clientele of transgender escorts ("chicks with dicks") are straight or straight-identified men.

None of the above refers to gay people or was covered by "ex-gay therapy" or its "movements" - terms with specific meanings. It was right and overdue for states to start banning that cult of abuse. Nothing ever labeled "ex-gay" ever improved the sexual satisfaction or emotional health of anybody - ever. It's as big a scam as psychic auras, except this time your children die.


People should feel free and comfortable discussing sexual orientation and identity issues, and their own notions of why people (especially men) behave as they do, here or in the dedicated Sexual Identity forum. But an attempt to attribute any virtue to anything with the words "ex-gay" in the title will be self-defeating as the motives, methods, and results involved are prima-facie not credible.



Matt
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My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of Heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#446453 - 09/05/13 03:09 AM Re: Michael Reagan: Child abuse makes people gay [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 412
Loc: west coast
If you mean that we are all god's creation, we were created by stardust, then yes he/she/it/supernova did in fact create us of all. This we absolutely irrefutably know, stars had to die for us all to live. We all share the minerals of planets, the DNA of plants and mostly our closest cousins, the great apes.

Were we created with a purpose or plan in mind? Not a chance.
It's for us to chose our our paths, nothing is predetermined and any near misses for death are just that, near misses. How lucky for those who were not sexually abused to be one of the near misses. Yet we are still here. How lucky are we?

Mr reagan, confuses criminality with sexuality, how sad. The gay community is more accepting only in so much in that they have also have had to suppress what they knew themselves to be, until finally they could see they had to break free of preconceived expectations by family, church and society.

So for the rest of us, its about seeking to understand that we are all on a quest to not confuse love with sex. Nothing more. There is NO supernatural!

Luminosity, trancendence and a sense of our self or soul has absolutely nothing to do with organized spiritualism. Its our need to feel accepted and acknowledged. If you are a person of faith, its your willingness to believe anything for the sake of anything but evidence. Anyone is entitle to believe as they will, but once I have to hear about it or they make statements encompassing my experience then they have overstepped the bounds.

"there is no god but god" the prayer of islam is correct at least for the first 4 words. Everyone is an atheist about certain religions and they are well on their way but some of us just take it one god more.

Yet science is not superior in many respects, when you learn that 1/2 of what medical students learn b4 they leave medical school will be proven untrue, you just don't know which 1/2. They only difference is the truth will change as more truths are discovered. It evolves as we do. The only difference is new truths are embraced as the best we have to offer not reproved by preconceived notions.

So ex gay? it may hold a true for some, but for so so so many more, it will only be a source of pain and shame.

We know that a person's sexual orientation is what it is. What they do or who they have sex with is really irrelevant. One can only be truly happy though when desires, actions, expressions of the true self all come together. Otherwise there is a cognitive disconnect. This is what happens when Putin says the new anti gay law is in no way discrimanatory or when the southern blow hard says (concurred with by the last pope) that gays were the hittler inner circle killers, robertson says gays have special AIDS rings and when anyone of blind faith says love the sinner but hate the sin. You have to take it with a grain of salt and realize that people will delude themselves in spite of themselves.

Sadly survivors are more aware of that fact than most. Bi says your truth is that you are truly attracted to is both. That is for no one to deny. But if ones true desire is to be with a man and due to circumstance, self or societal pressures that is repressed, well then no one wins.

So let Ex gays say as they will, its up to the rest of us to hold their feet to the fire and point out the hypocricy. Ultimately we can't care what a person believes, its what they DO! When we champion ourselves, we champion those we love, those that love us and those that need to be championed over we win.

Diversity is great but not at the cost of rationality, humanity and compassion.

Peace


Edited by 1lifenow (09/05/13 03:11 AM)
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#446543 - 09/06/13 02:49 AM Re: Michael Reagan: Child abuse makes people gay [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
GoldStone Offline


Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 220
Loc: Far East
i think we are all seeing pretty much eye to eye here. it was weird to be sitting in a circle of men, some of whom, i was like, 'that ain't gonna happen for you man!'.

I just know I changed orientations spontaneously over the course of my life more than once, not therapy related. So its not a big deal for me. I don't feel i have to identify or defend myself. I'm an anomaly. I agree with the sentiments here. False advertising is a big deal and should be mediated.


Edited by GoldStone (09/06/13 02:52 AM)

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#446545 - 09/06/13 02:56 AM Re: Michael Reagan: Child abuse makes people gay [Re: SoccerStar]
GoldStone Offline


Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 220
Loc: Far East
Originally Posted By: SoccerStar
There is an entire subculture of MSM (men who have sex with men) for reasons that are at odds with their primary sexual orientation - whether they are deprived of female contact, or in need of certain sex acts the women in their lives won't do well or at all, or are exploring a kink that simply can't be expressed with women at all.

Matt


After a decade in the gay urban underground in the US and abroad, and doing sex work, I can confirm this. The numbers are much larger than people realize. I would say higher than 50% of sexually active males who have sex with men are straight identified. If you count asia africa and the middle east that number is MUCH higher... so that 'gays' are actually the subculture of MSM, not the other way around. Which makes me question the whole notion of "primary sexual orientation" which some people assume applies to everyone merely because it applies to themselves and those they associate with.



Edited by GoldStone (09/06/13 02:59 AM)

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#446610 - 09/07/13 02:27 AM Re: Michael Reagan: Child abuse makes people gay [Re: DavoSwim]
risingagain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
All of us are onions
God is peeling us
Layer by layer
To reveal
The only true condition
Is Love

Love is an onion
We come in many flavours
Sweet, bitter, sour,
Man on man on woman on woman
Cock sucking tied up with thorns and crosses
Soft fingers caressing tired feet

Everything we know
Even the atrocities
Moments of forgetfulness
Lifetimes of pain
Even these
Are just the peeling

Ages pass
Still we are the same inside
Pure Love
Shedding our rainbow colors
On the waiting Earth.

In our dignified center,
Nothing was ever lost.



Edited by risingagain (10/04/13 12:34 PM)

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#448351 - 09/26/13 08:51 PM Re: Michael Reagan: Child abuse makes people gay [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1248
Loc: New York

Originally Posted By: Smalltown80sBoy
How does one get kicked out of the heterosexual community, anyway? Is there a notice of excommunication? Or maybe it's an eviction notice? "You have 30 days to leave the heterosexual community or we will initiate eviction proceedings."

In tightly knit religious communities intimidation is the instrument of choice but there have been cases of people being accosted by unnamed fanatics. When intimidation is used on the family and even their relatives it hurts the chances of children and their siblings getting married to others within the community. It hurts the chances of children and their siblings being let into community schools. It even follows them in death with not being able to be buried in community owned cemeteries. The gay child or adult is deemed to have a severe medical condition or is just excluded from the community like he/she doesn't exist. The child can go to school anyplace he/she want but not in a community run school. The person is not only shunned by the community that person just doesn't exist anymore.

As for "notice of excommunication" there can be leaflets thrown around on the streets of the community by persons unknown as people should not have any contact with the person or family in question.

There are any number of other ways to get rid of unwanted people from a religious community. Kids can be sent to unlicensed so called "therapists" who have been known to even end up molesting the child. When the so called "therapist" is caught, indicted and finally sent to jail for 30-100 years the real trouble begins. Because of that so called "therapist" being incarcerated the family is finally forced by the community to move to another state simply forcing them into financial poverty via terrorism.

These are just some of the weapons used in tightly knit religious communities to control what they want and who they want. But the core of any weapon used is hate.
Their Motto: mad "HATE THE GAY AWAY" mad.

Peace, Rainbows, Love & Healing
<3 XOXO
Jeff
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Stick around, It will get better....

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