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#446352 - 09/03/13 05:32 PM Personal complements
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
So I've just come back from the aims music school, which was great, but exhausting, as I had to step in for another tenor who didn't turn up and had to learn music very quickly (the fact that I've only just handed in my phd thesis didn't help either).

I have learnt quite well to take complements about my voice. I just say "thank you" and leave it at that, for all it never feels right. However, I noticed I got other complements, particularly from girls, and those I found considderably harder to deal with.

For instance, one woman on the course had an annoying and nervous laugh. When two of the girls I was with were commenting on this, I stated it was fairly obvious to me that this woman had some sort of problem, ---- maybe extreme nurves, social phobia or something more serious I don't know, so therefore I wouldn't call her laugh annoying. One girl said quite openly "oh luke, your so lovely you know so much about people"

This stunned me slightly, I was just saying what I saw.

On another occasion, when discussing relationships, (not a nice subject), when i stated that I'd flatly given up, another girl stated "oh but your going to find someone, your just too nice not to" I told her (trying my best not to be unpleasant), that I was rather sick of people telling me "give it time" and so had decided to forget the hole thing, but she replied somewhat corstically that "I wasn't saying that, I was stating a fact"

This wasn't the only thing, I got complements on my appearence.

Of course, aims is a very intensive environment, singing for six hours a day and doing various performances in course of a week, everyone is pretty much shattered and thus emotionally much more open than they normally would be, ---- though for me, I've always found it quite uplifting since when i am being so! concentrated just on singing and nothing elseI find I simply don't have the time or emotional energy to think about anything other than what I'm doing. Heck, in one exercise one of the tutors asked me to sing while she yelled different emotional words at me, from fear, to surprise to anger, to joy, to love, and I had to change my voice and posture accordingly, which meant at least simulating the emotion and remebering what feeling it was like, ---- though of course I didn't have time to think about anything bad, since i was too busy performing.

Yet, what the hell do I do with personal complements, especially from girls. simply "thank you" does not seem to do it.

And no, I don't think these were pickup lines, since especially in the relationship conversation I said pretty distinctly that part of the problem was that nobody had ever been interested in me, ---- so anyone interested knew what they had to do.

So, how do you cope with these sorts of complements? complements not about what I do or have done, which I can treat as gifts and simply thank the person politely, but complements about myself, ---- they dam well feel just plane wrong!

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#446357 - 09/03/13 06:09 PM Re: Personal complements [Re: dark empathy]
Rich1967 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 289
Loc: PA
Why do the complements feel wrong? Are you not worthy of them?

They see something in you that they like - one implies that you are somewhat intuitive in your understanding of people. You probably are based on what you've had to go through in life. The other implies that you seem like a nice person. I think even you said that you couldn't hate others in general and would help people when asked. This would come across as you being a nice person.

On a completely natural level saying things like "thank you" or "that's a very kind thing for you to say" would be totally appropriate even if it doesn't feel right to you. Sometimes you just have to fake it knowing that they are ok responses even if you don't feel like they are.

Maybe these lines weren't pickup line, but they were open doors for you to pay them back with a compliment or two. As for telling them that nobody had ever been interested in you...I would keep that to yourself. Why do they need to hear that and can you be totally sure that it's true? What if someone did like you, but didn't have the guts to tell you?

Wish I could hear you sing.
_________________________
Rich

"Me too" - I don't think I will ever get tired of saying or hearing these two words.

My Story:
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=441625#Post441625

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#446358 - 09/03/13 06:12 PM Re: Personal complements [Re: dark empathy]
GoldStone Offline


Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 220
Loc: Far East
i just say, "oh yeah?"

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#446376 - 09/03/13 09:29 PM Re: Personal complements [Re: dark empathy]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3487
Loc: somewhere in Africa
i usually feel a bit awkward with compliments, too.

i always say thank you - and then try to deflect the conversation away from myself - such as commenting upon someone else's great performance - or the refreshments - or costumes - or whatever - anything to change the subject and lessen my own anxiety.

i think it comes partly from not having a memorized line to say - like i would if this was part of the play. i am much more comfortable with a script. i HATE improvisation - too many variables and the fear of the unknown. so having some canned responses prepared that i can recite with the absolutely undetectable counterfeit of sincerity and the convincing illusion of spontaneity is what helps me.

wink
lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#446408 - 09/04/13 02:12 PM Re: Personal complements [Re: dark empathy]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
@rich, from my perspective no, nobody has ever! been interested in me. i am quite aware my perspective could be flawed, but part of my desire to make this !100 clear is on the off chance that any of those girls were! interested, they would know what to do. I tend to be fairly open up to a point, and I've found that quite helpful in many ways, at least with reasonable people. There was indeed one occasion in 2009 when my parents thought! a girl was interested, and I still regret not telling her about my abuse at least in general terms (we were quite close friends and she'd told me similar things), since if I had it is possible she might have understood why I just couldn't! do the correct signals bit or whatever the heck men are supposed to do.

I wouldn't have gone nearly that far, but at least admiting that no, I am utterly clueless at the hole "natural signals" thing would help.

The thought of "someone not having the guts" is actually really astounding, much less confusing, since generally people do! tell me things.

Regarding complements more general rich, I think in terms of hatred it is more the sense that I hate "people!" but I love individuals. Collectives, groups. cleaques, even society as a hole, is just hostile to me, something I'm not part of, heck my abuse was all perpetrated by groups. the crowd is more than the some of it's parts, it's a beast with many heads and only one desire, a body which violently attacks any cells not part of itself. That! is what I hate, collectivism!

Individual people who have their own feelings, desires, lives and experiences, people I can communicate with, those! I find I am able to feel empathy for.


Regarding complements feeling wrong, well that I agre is likely part of my sense of worthelssness, and probably the best way around would be to simply say "thank you" and leave it at that. The ironic thing is I am always ready to complement other people myself, at least I am when I believe it is necessary to either A, speak a truth about a person, especially to help a missconception, or b, to give a person emotional support, ---- though I would never actually lye. I suppose taken on this basis I should just say "thank you for saying so" and leave it at that.

@Goldstone, "oh yeah?" to me would feel a little short, perhaps even rude. I do feel a sense that if someone complements me it requires at least some sort of response, or acknolegement, to show that your actually listening and being concerned with the other person and their side of the conversation.

@lee, deflection can work, though myself I don't tend to find rehearsed responses help me, I suppose I'm just not as good an actor as you laugh. Even when I am using a script, say speaking lines on stage during a light opera, I need to actually feel! the emoetions involved, otherwise nothing will come across. this is why I'm an intrinsically bad lyer, unless I can actually convince myself of the lye.In conversation it's all about emotional sense and correct give and take, and those sorts of judgements are not possible for me with something prerehearsed.

Btw, if people want to see some videos, I've stuck a couple on sendspace to send to my music teacher. My mum took these with her new camera, so they're in mp4 format, I hope this is okay.

To download, just click the link and then click the "click to start download" link on the sendspace page that comes up.


both of these are from the opperetta merry england, originally written in 1902, which we did a rather cut down concert version of.

this first one has two songs. A drinking song about a large wine jug, called "every jack shal have his gyll" which makes a pun on "jill" the girl's ame, and "gyll" a measure of spirits, and the quintette "love is meant to make us glad" (now there's! an irony for you).

The link is:

http://www.sendspace.com/pro/7rpyxx

This second one is a rather nice love duette between my character, Sir Walter Raly, and the maid of the queen called bessy, and talks a lot about the griek god pan. I rather love this peace, it's just so pretty, ---- albeit the words are rather dire.

http://www.sendspace.com/pro/4li821

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#446440 - 09/05/13 12:12 AM Re: Personal complements [Re: dark empathy]
Rich1967 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 289
Loc: PA
I agree your perspective is flawed! That's why you are here at MS so we, who can see past your flawed perspective, can tell you that there are probably some girls out there that would like you or did like you. In the meantime just tell them "thanks for the kind words" and not saying certain things, even if you believe them to be true and I don't, are OK :-)

Can you explain a little more why you think the girls would know what to do if they were interested? What are you telling them?

Sorry about the feelings of worthlessness. I struggle with those all the time. Today was particularly a bad... Anyway, YOU'RE NOT WORTHLESS! Try taking some of that kindness you are willing to give to individuals and train it on yourself. Give yourself a break and admit it that you have some pretty cool qualities about yourself.

That reminds me of the videos. I screwed it up and they only give you a gig of downloads in a day so I couldn't watch them yet, but I'm pumped to see/hear them - thanks for sharing them.

Crowd thing. Based on your story I can so see how you feel that way. It's like a mob mentality takes over and people can collectively become monsters.
_________________________
Rich

"Me too" - I don't think I will ever get tired of saying or hearing these two words.

My Story:
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=441625#Post441625

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#446466 - 09/05/13 05:50 AM Re: Personal complements [Re: dark empathy]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
Well Rich regarding crowds, it is partly my abuse, but also pretty much my life. Any group of people pretty much treat me as an outsider and force me to work hard just to be recognized as the same species. I rarely if ever feel part of a greater community than myself, indeed during my production of iolanthe in march ws one of the few times, and that I tend to nod as wishful thinking on my part, since nobody has bothered since then.

Even when someone addresses is a group I'm in, I tend to feel it is always directed at everyone but! me, even when this is a supportive sitution, for instance at the mike loo event I went to in 2010, when at the end of the day mike praised everyone's progress he didn't seem to be addressing me at all, it seemed to be directed at everyone else but! me.

That's how things are though.

Regarding what I expect, from girls by admitting I don't get the signals thing, well just an "I like you" or "I'd be interested in being closer" would be enough, ---- it's the very fact that nobody! has said such to me that makes me feel nobody has ever! been interested. people talk about "natural signals" and even my friends who have relationships simply said "they just happened" ---- well to me they don't! This is perhaps why complements from girls annoy me, especially those "oh you'll find someone some time" type of affairs, since it just seems like another rejection.

On three occasions I have said the same to girls, and have always got the "I'm flattered" response, though I admit on those occasions I never actually expected anything to come of it, I just said something since the choice was having my head explode, ---- and the third of those occasions was in 2007 which was the shock I needed to make me realize that no, I wasn't okay and what happened to me as a teenager wasn't as over and done with as I thought.

This is why I have often said I wish I was female, since it just seemed so much easier, indeed in my darker modes I have said that girls get all the power to accept or refuse while men throw themselves on the line.

Perhaps all this goes back to my abuse very directly, since as well as all the insults, suposed jokes etc, I was told on some occasions that a given girl liked me, ---- or usuall would like to fuck me, which is somewhat ironic given what was going on at the time.

This is why I tend to believe whatever works in terms of attraction for me is just broken, like my genophobia, something which simply doesn't function as it should, and again, someone just being dam honest if they were interested would help!


complements generally I do not tend to feel easy about, but complements that may or may not have another meaning (which granted aren't many), are extremely hard to deal with.


One thing I have realized about worthlessness, is that there is no way to actuall change the perspective directly. all the positive thinking exercises in the world just won't do anything. The only way is understanding, and in understanding to be able to focus not on how I evaluate! myself, but on what I do! on experiencing the best of my own qualities, rather than trying to force myself to think of them. This is why I concentrate on singing and my love of music and give that to the audience, since when I am experiencing! that, I am not thinking about myself. this you could call enlightened headonism.

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#446471 - 09/05/13 07:36 AM Re: Personal complements [Re: dark empathy]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3617
Loc: South-East Europe
This is very interesting topic and I guess many of us have some sort of problems related to complements.
I have sort of anxious feelings when I'm under someone's spot light and I'm trying to avoid it.

Recently I went to do haircut after some time. Hairdresser is very cool girl that is younger than me at least for 6 or 7 years. I know her already for almost ten years, and to make story short when I went there I was surprised when she remembered my name and later called me something like: "kiddo". Here such nick is used toward someone for whom we have protective feelings, it is very friendly.

I felt awkward and I thought later about it. It came to me that actually I'm afraid a little bit of closeness. It can be called intimacy or whatever but if someone would share some sudden interest and friendly feelings I'm stunned and don't know how to behave.
But it can get even worse if some romantic feelings are involved, than I'm more sensitive than Tsunami warning system, lol.


Pero
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#446495 - 09/05/13 11:10 AM Re: Personal complements [Re: dark empathy]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
Well Pero, that sort of thing is just something I take for granted as having no meaning, especially since in various parts of the Uk (including the north of england), "darling" or "love" is almost a standard mode of address etween people of opposite gender even in the most innocuous of circumstances, for instance the lady at my local sandwich shop greeted me this morning with "hello darling"


This is again why I really would like someone to just be dam well clear, and again something that women seem to just get by default.

For me, I just can't perceive those sorts of interactions as applied to myself. I can be friends, that is no problem, but complements with a romantic undertone just fly straight past me. again, this is why I tend to think that whatever is supposed to perceive other people's interest or intention in me is just something that is broken.


Like genophobia, this is something I just don't think has an easy answer without another person, since how do you learn to communicate on your own?

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#446510 - 09/05/13 01:17 PM Re: Personal complements [Re: dark empathy]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3617
Loc: South-East Europe
Yes Luke, we too have such "love", "darling" or even "sweat-hearth" names that are regularly used.
I don't mind if I'm called like that but when someone who was officially addressing me for last couple of years starts to call me "kiddo" it will surprise me.
That girl also told me that I was wearing cool clothes and that literary left me speechless, lol.
But she meant it only in friendly manner nothing more that was for sure but anyway it was more than enough for me...

But here is question on which I don't have current answer. On couple of occasions some friends asked me why I was there and not somewhere out chasing girls.
To be honest I asked same myself and I'm at the moment nowhere near to the point to go to do something like that. What is more scary is the thing that I don't know when I'll be "ready".
I'm scared like hell from reaching out and even I dream on relationship and sharing intimacy it is impossible for me to make any step in that direction frown
ah enough ranting, lol

Pero


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