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#445820 - 08/29/13 01:35 AM Internal Warfare
toddop Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/14/11
Posts: 212
Loc: California
I have been struggling lately with a lot of inner turmoil around my inner children. I have done a lot of journaling lately and I realize that there are so many aspects of me as a child at different stages of my life and different stages of the abuse. To simplify, I can say I have three broad parts to my inner child:
  • The child before the abuse.
  • The child during the abuse.
  • The child after the abuse.
I have no issues with the first inner child. But lately, I have been tapping into a lot of internal anger toward the last two. The one who suffered the abuse, and the one who existed after the abuse. The one during the abuse, he was a physically fit little gymnast who loved physical activity. There is a lot of anger toward him because he didn’t tell, he went along with it, he acted so sexually disgusting with the multiple perps. He was 7-9.

The one after the abuse just disintegrated. He gained lots of weight, retreated from the world, wet his bed, and was depressed and basically shell-shocked. There is a lot of anger about this inner child for letting himself go, for giving up on his dreams to be a gymnast, for letting the bad guys win, for starting a cycle that I still struggle with to this day. He was me from 10-13.

I know rationally and intellectually it was not their fault. I have good moments with these inner child aspects of myself. But man, lately I have been tapping into these deep wells of anger toward these parts of myself. Sometimes it feels like they are just at war with each other and one blames the other for how the other one reacted. And then I add adult anger and regret to that pile and we are talking about a firefight between three heavily armed factions. The machine guns have just been firing non-stop. And I just feel this sense of overwhelming anger and deep despair about it all.

I just posted in another post about how both of the main abusers in my life, my biological father and my gymnastics coach were basically like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. One moment they were kind and loving and I was the most special thing in the world, the next I am a piece of trash in the gutter when they abused me. Is this what they call internalizing the abuser? Have I internalized that kind of behavior to myself or parts of myself?

As I said above, when I am focused and feeling centered, I realize that these inner kids are the real source of my strength, and the true heroes that survived the monsters. But, then where does the rage at them come from, and how do I deal with that?

Sorry, if this post is really confusing. I guess I feel confused. Has anyone else encountered this type of anger? Or done any kind of inner child work to address these issues? If so, I would be grateful if you could share how you may have approached or resolved this.
_________________________
Todd

"Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds."
-Albert Einstein

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#445825 - 08/29/13 03:43 AM Re: Internal Warfare **triggers*** [Re: toddop]
Onesimus75 Offline


Registered: 08/22/13
Posts: 158
Loc: Minnesota
I think confusion covers a ton of it. It always has for me.

If it helps, telling doesn't always help. I was a good little 11-year-old and told on my first abuser right away. I only remember three things that day. His hand cupping my junk, which was wrong (I knew) and felt good (which pretty much f-ed up my whole world since). I remember having told, sitting there in hysterical tears as the camp counselors told me what happened was no big deal (this was before mandatory reporting laws in MN? not sure...) And then I remembered the fall-out that changed me from then on. I remembered all the shame, but I became... the American term is "junk" aware. Suddenly I noticed the privates of all the other boys, in what was for me weird ways... and felt dirty and ashamed for all the things I wondered. I hit that camp as a pretty normal pre-teen kid, and left two weeks later all messed up.

I can look back and say, how in the world does a 13-14 year old boy 'accidentally' fondle the teeny junk of a sixth grader during tag, with a cupped hand?!? But back then I just learned I was the problem, just needed to shut up and never talk about it. And it wasn't even my perp doing the programming, but a business afraid of bad press?

So when perp 2 stalked me from his car at 13, trying to talk me in while jerking it, I didn't react, didn't try to get help. I learned my lesson you see. And so forth.

I hope you aren't always angry at your inner kid during the abuse? Here were the men in your life, your heroes, and you totally deserved to have them think that you were special and worth attention, and totally didn't deserve what they did about it!!!

I really started getting better sorting out the good feelings and thrills (there were many, sexual responses, just being 'wanted' when my first abuse had already taught me I was not worth protecting), from the harm and manipulation, when I started reading a book by Mike Lew called Victims No Longer. It had a section that went through and broke all that down. What did you really want?

I wanted to be wanted, wanted to be special, to be told I was desirable, that I was friendable, loveable. My body reacted to sexual stimulation because it was built to do that, not because I chose it. And getting through it was the best that I could do at the time. The best I knew how to do.

I used to hate myself for years, but the more I could see the boy I was as sincerely trying his absolute best with all those messed up situations, the more the hatred started to fade away.

Wish I could say I always get that right. I seem to have this huge double-standard sometimes. Sure, I would never blame anyone else for the sexual reactions their abusers forced out of them, but I should have known better. I only feel compassion for other CSA kids who acted out because they'd been manipulated/trained/imprinted and that was the only thing they knew, but I should have known better.

Now I make myself realize I was expecting myself to be superhuman, and I'm just me instead.

And part of it is refusing to let the abusers define me. I reject their messages that I would want it, deserved it, or that it didn't matter.

It helped me with my anger. Most days. It helps.



Edited by Onesimus75 (08/29/13 03:51 AM)
Edit Reason: Added trigger warning
_________________________
We are not defined by our faults, or our wounds, but by the truth within us, which nothing can take away.

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#445846 - 08/29/13 09:38 AM Re: Internal Warfare [Re: toddop]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1269
...


Edited by Chase Eric (11/21/13 08:54 PM)
_________________________



Click my pic to see why I'm here

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#445857 - 08/29/13 10:30 AM Re: Internal Warfare [Re: toddop]
concerned_husky Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 583
Todd,

When I think about your question (i.e. where this rage comes from) in relation to the details of your abuse that you've disclosed on here thus far, I find myself dwelling on two issues: 1) burdens, and, as you've mentioned yourself, 2) internalization.

I think Onesimus and Eirik hit on a really important point, namely - you were just a boy. You were 7-9 (!!!) during the abuse. And the other inner child you distinguished after the abuse, was only 10-13 (!!!). Think about it, really, how YOUNG that is. That's when you need guidance, protection, a safe environment in which to grow, love, encouragement and countless other things that are natural needs for a boy growing up - all of which you were deprived of. While it is painful to realize the damage you still suffer because of what's happened, when you were a boy, you dealt with the situation in the only way you could possibly conceive of - and you survived. Those boys inside you were enormously resilient, and they got you here. To go back to my original point - burdens: I know from reading your story that you've always felt a responsibility for the well-being of your mother and your brother. That is incredible, and shows how far your compassion extends - you still had the space within you to care about others amidst (even despite) all the pain and suffering you were enduring/had endured. I think, a destructive side-effect of this was, though, that it left you hardly any room to feel compassion for those inner boys within you. This is what I meant by burdens. I do not yet know the full details of your family dynamics, so this is but a mere suggestion: perhaps one aspect of the anger you feel towards your inner child is a reflection of the overwhelming demands and expectations that were enforced upon you, by others, and maybe even by yourself. Ideally, the adults in your life (your mother and step-father) should have protected you; they should have been strong and trustworthy and interested enough in your life so that you might've been able to open up to them; they should've been encouraging you. Perhaps, out of compassion for them, you do not reprimand them, and thus have not been able to feel anger towards them at a conscious level. In this way, the anger has no outlet, so you're turning it inwards, against your inner child.

I think you're also right when you say it's "internalizing the abuser." On top of the sexual abuse, your biological father abandoned you, and your coach left you distraught with much verbal/emotional abuse. When you think about it, it is actually INSANE how an adult could hurt a child who is so vulnerable and needing exactly the opposite of what they're giving. As for your other question (i.e. how to deal with that), I find entering into an inner dialogue with your abusers can be helpful. A dialogue, in which you stand up for your inner child, and argue against all of the toxic beliefs that your abusers planted in you. "He (your inner child) was not worthless. He deserved much better. You had no right to treat him this way. You had no right to steal from him his innocence. He was not an object - he was a young human being with thoughts, feelings and dignity." It may be triggering, but listen to your abusers' verbal onslaught and fight back. Be for the boy within you the wished-for adult that you never had.
_________________________
Husky

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#445862 - 08/29/13 11:10 AM Re: Internal Warfare [Re: toddop]
Rich1967 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 268
Loc: PA
I'm at work, but Todd I just had to write to give you some support.

I love what everyone has said so far.

I think we have anger because our lives now are such a struggle. We take that anger and blame our inner child because it gives us some control over the situation. How could someone have done this too me. It must be what I did to make it happen. I'm really not a worthless piece of garbage to be used and abused because I caused the problem. If I didn't behave the way I did this would NOT have happened. I will now fix those behaviors and it won't happen again and everything will be OK.

Seeing the thought process in this light was really helpful for me.

Also, find some kids who were the same age as when you were abused and see if you can spend some time with them. There is very little chance that any of them would be able to do any better than you did in the same situations. You may be able to see that when watching their interactions. You did really well BTW - you are still ALIVE.

I understand the struggle well and hope you find the right thing for you to do what Husky said so well, "Be for the boy within you the wished-for adult that you never had".
_________________________
Rich

"Me too" - I don't think I will ever get tired of saying or hearing these two words.

My Story:
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=441625#Post441625

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#445965 - 08/30/13 12:43 PM Re: Internal Warfare [Re: toddop]
Adam A Gedman Offline


Registered: 08/12/13
Posts: 182
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: toddop

I know rationally and intellectually it was not their fault.


Todd don't know that I can offer much, but the line above resonated with me as this too is how I see things right now.

I think I am pretty emotionally detached. I can analyze things intellectually to death, but find no respite as a result.

I heard a line from a poem by Edna St. Vincent Millay, that I think may explain this.
The line reads
"Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn."

I see this as meaning for me, that although we can intellectually examine and accept a concept, idea or reason consciously.
It is our core belief system, our unconscious mind that ultimately has to absorb and assimilate the information for it to become truth for us.

My hope is time and repetition will allow my unconscious mind to, catch up.

Don't know if this helps, but thought I would offer my two cents as a possible explanation for this internal conflict.
_________________________
Presence is the key, for all we have is now.
All we ever have is right now.

Formerly Adam A Gedman (AKA - A damAGed man)

But you can call me Kevin

Toronto Mini WoR - May 2014

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#445987 - 08/30/13 06:28 PM ! [Re: Chase Eric]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
!


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (02/28/14 09:35 PM)

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#445990 - 08/30/13 06:56 PM ! [Re: Onesimus75]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
!


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (02/28/14 09:35 PM)

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#446004 - 08/30/13 09:09 PM Re: Internal Warfare [Re: toddop]
toddop Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/14/11
Posts: 212
Loc: California
Thanks everyone for the very helpful responses and feedback to my post. It means a lot to me to hear everyone’s thoughts on this. I have learned so much from you guys.

Originally Posted By: Onesimus75
I seem to have this huge double-standard sometimes. Sure, I would never blame anyone else for the sexual reactions their abusers forced out of them, but I should have known better. I only feel compassion for other CSA kids who acted out because they'd been manipulated/trained/imprinted and that was the only thing they knew, but I should have known better.

Now I make myself realize I was expecting myself to be superhuman, and I'm just me instead.

Onesimus75 - Thanks for sharing parts of your story and your ideas around this. I can identify with so much of what you say. I was particularly drawn to this because these thoughts are what originally led me to the place that I am at. I started to question why I cannot extend the empathy to myself that I so readily give to others. That is when I really tapped into the anger that is inside.

Originally Posted By: Chase Eric
I can only share from my own experience on this, but sometimes I wonder if the biggest crime of CSA is the civil war it sets up within us.

For me, it seems that the heart has no memory. The intellect must constantly remind the heart what it knows.

How do you get your heart to remember for more than ten minutes what your intellect knows - that we were just kids, doing the best we knew how, all by ourselves?


Eirik – I can always count on you to bring the heart into the matter. That is truly the source of some of our greatest wounds, but also our greatest leaps forward. I really appreciate the civil war metaphor you gave. That is truly what it feels like. I feel like you read my mind and put it out there for all to see with far greater clarity than I could muster.

Thanks for sharing your own experience and story around this. It is digging in the muck of the awful reality of our feelings that I think often leads to our greatest successes. For me, asking these questions has led to some pretty dark places. But, rather than deny them, sometimes I think our darkest aspects make our lightest parts shine that much brighter. We WERE just kids and we do need to let ourselves off the hook for much more of the blame and guilt. It just is going to need some reinforcement and repetition.

Originally Posted By: concerned_husky
...you still had the space within you to care about others amidst (even despite) all the pain and suffering you were enduring/had endured. I think, a destructive side-effect of this was, though, that it left you hardly any room to feel compassion for those inner boys within you.

I find entering into an inner dialogue with your abusers can be helpful. A dialogue, in which you stand up for your inner child, and argue against all of the toxic beliefs that your abusers planted in you.


Husky – Thank you so much for that response. And thank you for relating it to the struggles I have been going through over the past few months. It is hard for me sometimes to see the big picture, moving from incident to incident. Sometimes it needs someone else to say “Step back and see what has been going on for you…” That is an amazing gift to do that for me.

You really hit the nail on the head with the anger stuff. I was never allowed to express anger. My biological father would not allow it, and reinforced that we should always be good boys and be quiet and well-behaved. And even after that, my family dynamic did not allow me to express it.

For one, I had already been ditched by one parent. I think I thought if I was bad in any way, including being angry, my mother would get rid of me too. But, on another level, being abandoned by our father made me, my brother and mother really insular and protective of each other. I think perhaps my need to keep it from them to not hurt them was a big factor. So, I think in that case you are very right in saying I had nowhere to really direct the anger to. Thank you so much for putting those pieces together.

Thanks also for the idea about writing to my abuser. I am definitely going to do that and see what comes up. I am already plumbing the depths so might as well roll up my sleeves and get to it.

Originally Posted By: Rich1967
Also, find some kids who were the same age as when you were abused and see if you can spend some time with them. There is very little chance that any of them would be able to do any better than you did in the same situations. You may be able to see that when watching their interactions. You did really well BTW - you are still ALIVE.


Rich – Thank you for your support on this and for sharing your experience with anger as well. My T has tried to get me to do this. I feel so self-conscious about being around children. The last thing I want to be thought of is as the creepy old dude staring at the kids. I always feel like a perp when I am around kids for some odd reason. They are very triggering for me. My T suggested just going to a mall or a tourist landmark and watching the families interact. Maybe that is something I can do. I definitely have as my end goal to be better to these internal kids, and this exploration is part of that. I really do not want to get lost in despair over this, but get to a better place with these feelings.

Originally Posted By: Adam A Gedman
I heard a line from a poem by Edna St. Vincent Millay, that I think may explain this.
The line reads
"Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn."

I see this as meaning for me, that although we can intellectually examine and accept a concept, idea or reason consciously.
It is our core belief system, our unconscious mind that ultimately has to absorb and assimilate the information for it to become truth for us.


Adam – thanks for your response and for the quote from the poem. It seems to complement very well what Eirik had said about the heart and the intellect. It is very difficult to merge those two things together or have them work in tandem. I guess the dichotomy between the two of them is the basis for all the great stories since the beginning of time. I think you are right on the time and repetition. I guess it is like sustained exercise or sustained muscle building. It can’t just go from one state to another. It must be transformed slowly over time.

Originally Posted By: Smalltown80sBoy
But I think many of us who chose not to drown our memories or tired of doing so have realized that waging an internal struggle is critical to our survival. We are our own punching bags but I think that if we can keep from beating ourselves to death we can learn something about ourselves in the process and come out stronger, wiser, and better able to embrace life to the fullest.


Gary – Thanks for putting a positive spin on the struggles that we go through. I fully agree with what you are saying. I never asked to be abused, but one of the only positive outcomes of our constant fight is that we do get to learn about ourselves on a very deep and intense level. That is definitely the source of strength. This is really good to hear.

Again, thanks all for your responses. I have had some time to reflect on this. I have received a lot of ideas from your posts and from PMs from other guys. One in particular suggested that I draft a peace treaty between all of the factions involved, listing issues and demands, then to come to an agreement against a common enemy. I thought that was a great idea and I had to share it.

But, really, everyone’s help, resources, and ideas have been so helpful. I think with what I have learned from this post, I feel a lot more grounded about these feelings. They are still fresh, intense, and frightening, but they are a part of me. And I am starting to make sense of where they are coming from. I know it is going to take some work to move beyond the intellectual grasp that the anger does not deserve to be directed inwardly, to actually believing it in my heart. But, I am willing to accept the possibility of moving in that direction.

You know, it always seems like an ongoing series of books, or a video game. You get to through one level and the next level you have deal with everything on the level before it, plus new challenges, obstacles, or foes. I mean, I already feel I have been swimming through the putrid and toxic waters of the CSA memories from one island of knowledge to the next. And now I have to do all of that PLUS deal with these new and frightening emotions like sharks swimming around in it. You’re kidding me? That is how it feels.

And I can choose to sit there, not wanting to move forward. Or I can grab my Bowie knife out of my belt and dive into the water, swinging left and right to keep the sharks away, as I swim toward the next island. Each new chapter of the story or level of the game might mean I have to face a new enemy with new challenges. But when I look back at who I was when I started this struggle, I may not recognize that person because of all the new muscles, skills, and courage I have added. That remains my goal. Onward and upward.

You guys have made my day.
_________________________
Todd

"Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds."
-Albert Einstein

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#446017 - 08/30/13 10:37 PM Re: Internal Warfare [Re: toddop]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1269
(((Todd)))
_________________________



Click my pic to see why I'm here

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#446021 - 08/30/13 10:54 PM Re: Internal Warfare [Re: toddop]
Rich1967 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 268
Loc: PA
Todd - you're awesome. You sound like a now well armed warrior heading into battle. I think your opponents are doomed! Anytime you need help rearming i'll be there for you. I look forward to the next battle and agree that each time we win we'll be that much stronger for the next one. Well, either that or it's a good day to die :-)

You are strong.
_________________________
Rich

"Me too" - I don't think I will ever get tired of saying or hearing these two words.

My Story:
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=441625#Post441625

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#446026 - 08/31/13 12:24 AM Re: Internal Warfare [Re: toddop]
Onesimus75 Offline


Registered: 08/22/13
Posts: 158
Loc: Minnesota
Todd, keep at it as you need to, and lay it aside when you can.
You said you need repetition, but isn't that why this place exists? I love Rich's tag-line "me too".

A word of encouragement occurred to me when you said the video game thing. Maybe one way to look at the next level that comes your way is that the universe acknowledges you've conquered the last level, you're ready for more.

life's calling you a conqueror buddy.
_________________________
We are not defined by our faults, or our wounds, but by the truth within us, which nothing can take away.

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#446050 - 08/31/13 12:50 PM Re: Internal Warfare [Re: toddop]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1165
Loc: New York
Hey Gary,

I don't know if I understand completely what your saying about looking inward. but if I think what you're saying is looking at inner self I can see why people don't want to look inward. Inward for me is hell itself and I wish I never had to look at my inner self, but that wasn't my choice, it was my inner self coming to make war with me. That inner self is full of pain and horror, that's all I'm full of. My actual self is trying very hard to come to terms with inner self. Some people just can't handle that inner self and try and find ways to cover it up or kill it.

For me I would like everything that is my inner self to go away. That would mean that I shouldn't have any past before today. That inner self has been something to hide for over 40 years and now there is a problem of war between my inner self and me. I have been slowly losing that war over the past 2 years, eventually I will lose that war.

Peace, Rainbows, Love & Healing
Jeff
_________________________
Depression Feels Like Home, and Happiness is Just a Place I Visit

It will get better....

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#446067 - 08/31/13 04:28 PM Re: Internal Warfare [Re: toddop]
toddop Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/14/11
Posts: 212
Loc: California
Jeff,

I am so sorry you feel that way about your inner self. I really understand it. This is what I am struggling with too, and why I started the post in the first place. Trying to make sense of the really negative feelings that I feel about myself all the time. I know very well the feeling that it is ALL bad inside.

I know from our exchanges in the past, that you have been a great source of encouragement and support for me. We have some real similarities in our stories. But, that support and friendship you have extended also comes from your inner self as well. So, maybe it is possible to have such bad feelings inside, but also have areas inside that hold positive feelings, at least toward others?

In fact, this is the crux of the whole post, to me. Why can we extend to others readily, what we never allow for ourselves? Often, I am brought to tears about another man's story about CSA when they were a child, and how it has impacted them. But, when I start to look inward, the chorus of "yeah, but's" start in my head. They say "yeah, but you were..." or "yeah, but you did..." These voices invalidate the sympathy that logically should also be directed at my suffering. That is what started me on this path. To understand this phenomenon that doesn't make any bit of sense when held up to scrutiny, but FEELS so real.

My hope is that if I can understand the basis of the deep sympathy and feelings I have for all of you on this site, I can understand more why I think it does not, or should not apply to me. I don't think the answer will be pretty, but I think the answer is vitally important.

(((Jeff))))

You know from our exchanges that my greatest wish is for us both to get past this and start to feel better about ourselves. I will continue to wish that for you, even when you can't for yourself.
_________________________
Todd

"Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds."
-Albert Einstein

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#447669 - 09/19/13 05:38 PM Re: Internal Warfare **triggers*** [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1165
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Smalltown80sBoy
Originally Posted By: Onesimus75
If it helps, telling doesn't always help.


Great point.

I once thought, perhaps naively, that if people simply knew about the existence of child abuse, that we'd all band together and put a stop to it. Then cold reality sets in and I'm reminded of my personal experience with abuse. Even when people found out, the abuse didn't stop. They ignored it or downplayed it. Sometimes telling doesn't make a difference at all and can in fact lead to persecution....of the victim.
I think that society in general doesn't give a shit. After a week it's old news and it's forgotten. Look at Sandy Hook. It was old news until this latest atrocity happened in DC. But both these atrocities ended up as gun control issues and no sympathy for the people that were lost. If society here in the US has already forgotten about Sandy Hook school massacre then who would think about CSA.

And what about me as a gay kid wanting to have a family and falling in love with his coach and would let him pimp me out for 7 years. There is no sympathy for a kid like me. It was possibly much easier for me to end up in a river than a kid that wasn't abused. I think all the time of Sandy Hook with all those kids and their teacher laying in a pile in the corner of the room with their teacher doing her best to protect her kids.

How many people remember the Dunblane massacre in '96, this isn't ancient history. I have a picture of the schoolroom after the fact (and after the bodies were taken away). When you see the room and absorb what you have seen you will never forget Sandy Hook either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre

As soon as the news stops the stories of any CSA story or massacre story, it's talked about at the dinner table and then forgotten as life goes on. How long will this story last.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/17/us/cannibal-eat-children-case/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Society and their memories are the problem. People would have no sympathy for me simply because I stayed in the game and because I loved my coach/pimp.

Good to see you Eric, hope all is good.

PS - Now you know why I'm at war with my inner self, I don't want to know about it. It hurt me terribly until this day both physically and mentally. Because of that kid I was unable to hold my kids and my grandkids. That's why I want that kid to go away and leave me alone. Although I'm at ease with the kid being gay and my gay friends and all the fun we did have even though we were both in the game.

Peace, Rainbows, Love & Healing
Jeff


Edited by lapchinj (09/19/13 07:48 PM)
Edit Reason: added PS -
_________________________
Depression Feels Like Home, and Happiness is Just a Place I Visit

It will get better....

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#447673 - 09/19/13 06:06 PM Re: Internal Warfare [Re: toddop]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1165
Loc: New York

From Mike Lew's book "Victims No Longer"

Focus

Am I Making the Family Crazy?


I know that some part of telling is wanting to heal the family.
-- a male incest survivor,

If there's a fire and I call the engines---so who am I double-crossing? The fire?
-- Judy Holliday in the film BORN YESTERDAY


The first thing we have to teach all children is that nobody without permission of the parent(s) or guardians may touch their bodies. If someone does then they are to tell their parents. Hopefully the parents will take care of the rest.

A guy I know from work's kid (12) went with his mother to the doctor and he wanted him to take off his shirt. The kid jumped away and said no. the mother said it's OK but the kid told his mother that father told him nobody may do that without his permission. He refused until the mother had to call her husband at work and let the boy talk to him himself and the father told him that if he asks either him or his mother it's OK what the other tells him. The kid took off his shirt smile.

I never heard of a story where a kid refused a person of authority to do something. I gave the guy a big hug and when he asked what was that for, I told it was for him and his family. (I also bought him a coffee later in the day grin.)

Peace, Rainbows, Love & Healing
<3 XOXO
Jeff
_________________________
Depression Feels Like Home, and Happiness is Just a Place I Visit

It will get better....

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#447674 - 09/19/13 06:10 PM Re: Internal Warfare [Re: toddop]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1165
Loc: New York


(((((((((( Todd ))))))))))

Peace, Rainbows, Love & Healing
<3 XOXO
Jeff
_________________________
Depression Feels Like Home, and Happiness is Just a Place I Visit

It will get better....

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#447678 - 09/19/13 07:41 PM ! [Re: toddop]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
!


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (02/28/14 09:47 PM)

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#447703 - 09/19/13 10:56 PM Re: Internal Warfare [Re: lapchinj]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3294
Loc: back in the USA
Originally Posted By: lapchinj
I never heard of a story where a kid refused a person of authority to do something. I gave the guy a big hug and when he asked what was that for, I told it was for him and his family. (I also bought him a coffee later in the day grin.)


and this hug's for you, {{{{{{{Jeff!}}}}}}}

love that story.
lee
_________________________
We are often troubled, but not crushed;
sometimes in doubt, but never in despair;
there are many enemies, but we are never without a friend;
and though badly hurt at times, we are not destroyed.
- Paul, II Cor 4:8-9

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#447752 - 09/20/13 04:31 PM Re: Internal Warfare [Re: toddop]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1165
Loc: New York

(((((((((( Lee ))))))))))

Thanks, but I thought that was such a great thing he taught his kids (at least that 12 year old) I just had to post it. It really surprised me. The kid didn't even take his mother's answer because he said his father said not to and his body was his and no one elses. If a doctor told me to undress I would have done it very fast so not to waste his time. I did exactly that for a tailor and ended up with a year in hell.

Thanks for the hug I needed one smile.

Peace, Rainbows, Love & Healing
<3 XOXO
Jeff
_________________________
Depression Feels Like Home, and Happiness is Just a Place I Visit

It will get better....

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#447920 - 09/22/13 03:54 PM Re: Internal Warfare [Re: toddop]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1165
Loc: New York
Hey Gary,

Quote:
That's kind of how I feel when looking back at my childhood self. While it's never a child's fault, I do try to replay events and imagine how I could have done a better job of protecting myself. A child who has no power can't really protect himself, but it's hard not to play the "what if" game.

I was into that what if game but I try very hard not to look at it. Since I've gotten deeper into my shit with my T I see that what he told me when we first started is unfortunately true. I was abused for 9 years, I did love my coach, I was a prostitute for 7 years etc. I can't get away from that. Yes it would have been nicer not to have to go through all that but I did. I have to get used to that fact and concentrate on the abuse itself. The what ifs and what fors will kill you. I wanted to get a chance to go to the olympics but I never got that chance. So I can't get hung up on that but rather why and what happened to me I have to get through. But yeah, I do think about the what ifs occasionally.

Quote:
The aggravation goes both ways, I think. I look at my childhood self and think, "Why didn't you ..." But I think that child is looking at me and saying, "Get a grip! I didn't survive just so you could fuck it up!"

I still don't get the inner child too much but it sounds like my memories are my inner self. But I'm trying to get rid of that kid, I want him out of my life, to let go of that grip.

Peace, Rainbows, Love & Healing
Jeff
_________________________
Depression Feels Like Home, and Happiness is Just a Place I Visit

It will get better....

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