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#445984 - 08/30/13 05:53 PM ! [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
!


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (02/28/14 09:36 PM)

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#446020 - 08/30/13 10:53 PM Re: Michael Reagan: Child abuse makes people gay [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
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Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1397
...


Edited by Chase Eric (11/21/13 08:56 PM)
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#446029 - 08/31/13 01:57 AM Re: Michael Reagan: Child abuse makes people gay [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
risingagain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
In some of my ceremonial work I have seen the rainbows coming off of me, in my breath, from my fingertips, in my heart. I believe there is a queer spirit. The Creator has made all of us with a purpose.

With over 7 billion of us here now, it makes sense that there would be some people who don't procreate. To work with a balance of the genders, to heal, to bridge worlds, to change masculinity and femininity, to balance heaven and Earth. Of course the Creator would create us. We have a reason to be here.

One of the reasons we can be marginalized and abused is because our stories have been suppressed. We are called sick because our stories are untold. There is ignorance, fear, and hatred. This is why we have to tell our stories, write our own history.

Queer people have existed throughout history. Only we haven't had an unbroken story, because our story is tied to the rise and fall of different cultures. Some celebrate us. Others despise us. Often those that despise us fall into disarray. We bring balance. It has always been that way. Now we can claim our place on this Earth.

I believe that ex-gay therapy is a form of sexual abuse. It is often applied forcibly to children, which causes damage. It is based on an idea that gay is out of balance. When in fact unbridled breeding and hegemonic dominator masculinity is what is out of balance. The idea that we own the Earth, or that men should 'be in control', for instance, which is often acted out in straight relationships. Out of balance.

The Creator gave all men and women both sets of sex hormones (estrogen & testosterone) for a reason. As LGBTQ people, we can work with both energies more fluidly. Thus we carry gifts for the world.

Ex-gay therapy does not help abuse survivors, because it starts with the end goal of reducing gender variance and 'controlling' impulses. Force & control do not reach the level of healing, which is based on love, acceptance and deeper understanding.

I believe a more sane approach to dealing with sexual confusion is to explore ourselves with love and compassion, to look deeply into our shame and isolation, to reach out for support and community, and to understand our potential for violence (as all human beings we have that).

What works for me is to approach my sexuality as a landscape to explore and understand, watching out for unsafe places which put me or others in harms way, while accepting all of who I am.

This approach has led me to the place I am now, where I am so very content and happy with who I am. I don't have to fight myself anymore. What a relief!

smile

Blessings !

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#446054 - 08/31/13 02:32 PM Re: Michael Reagan: Child abuse makes people gay [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
DavoSwim Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 333
Loc: Iowa, USA
I have a range of thoughts about ex-gay therapy. I am absolutely opposed to it if the premise is that homosexuality is somehow a defective state and therefore one needs to be treated for it, and that is what it appears to be the purpose for ex-gay therapy. Being gay should not be thought of in anyway as being inferior. I am a religious guy, and I'm not afraid to admit it. And I know that we are all created by God - gay, straight and everything in between. Because of that we all have dignity, and beauty and that needs to be respected for all of us. To demean someone on the basis of sexual orientation is one of the most unreligious acts out there.

I wish to see more of an understanding of the basis for our sexual orientation, both gay, straight and everything in between. At times, I wonder if in fact there is a degree of choice. I hope I'm not ridiculed for that, but I wonder if exposure to something horrible does create some sort of dissension that is resolved by choosing same sex relationships. Generally, and really, almost entirely, I believe it's not a matter of choice. How that is, I'm not sure. To the best of my knowledge, there have never been any gay-genes identified, but there are documented physiological differences between straight and gay individuals, most commonly in the brain
Even though gay genes don't exist ( or haven't been ID'ed) that doesn't rule out physiological causes, because it's a well known fact that a host of factors can influence gene expression. It would be most excellent to find out if or how abuse affects orientation. That would further offer a better understanding of SSA and whether it is a true condition or merely a (well-intented) coverup.
I hope no one ever is subjected to ex gay therapy with the hopes of changing him/her into something he/she is not. Also, I hope no one is misidentified either. The best solution is to have someone's true identity known
Thanks
Dave

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#446071 - 08/31/13 06:00 PM Re: Michael Reagan: Child abuse makes people gay [Re: Chase Eric]
BraveFalcon Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/25/13
Posts: 1133
Loc: The ATL
.


Edited by BraveFalcon (08/31/13 06:01 PM)
Edit Reason: Posted in wrong thread.

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#446072 - 08/31/13 06:24 PM Re: Michael Reagan: Child abuse makes people gay [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
GoldStone Offline


Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 220
Loc: Far East
I think there is legitimate concern about what is motivating anyone to 'help' another person work out the sexual leanings. And what qualifies such a person to do so effectively is certainly open to debate.

I can't speak to 'ex-gay therapy'. But I can speak to the ex-gay movement from direct experience. Sometimes these two things are incorrectly lumped together. We can sit here and pretend that there wasn't ever a legitimate clientele for the ex-gay market and that all the 'experts' in the field were exploitative, profit seeking bigots, but in my experience this is not the case.
I for one, had very positive experiences (and never felt pressured or shamed) in ex-gay support groups, retreats, and informal one on one counseling. It was always clear that these people believed that a 100% change in sexual sensitivity is very very unlikely. But there were plenty of people who were satisfied with the changes they experienced. My experiences were centering in NYC where the demographic was very broad, and the 'religiosity' was probably significantly lower than the norm.

I was not doing it because the bible or pastor told me so. I was doing it because I wanted the OPTION of a married life that wouldn't compromise my wife's security and happiness. I wanted to know how other ssa men handled being married. I wanted to be informed. And I was satisfied with what I learned. Didn't do a thing for me behaviorally in the moment. But now that I AM married, I'm glad to have that experience in my pocket.

The topics discussed in the ex-gay movement are legitimate.

Every movement is full of quacks, and idiots, so you'll never see me arguing that 'no one got hurt' by association.

I often feel that that the people discussing this topic most vocally, are not the people who have direct experience, nor are the people who would pursue this kind of fellowship or research. But its understandable why it causes distress. Its the kind of thing that anti gay people have said, "they are coming after our children.", only on the other side of the fence.

Practitioners, I understand, are still legally allowed to help a person avoid those sexual behaviors which are in conflict with their FAITH, whatever those may be. All in the interest of removing unnecessary stress.

I love and adore my 'queer' friends. I am queer. I'm not in a funk about it.

I just like to be informed. I think its unfortunate that men who really want to research their sexual confusion, through fellowship, now have one more obstacle to overcome in order to do so.

Anyone who knows me knows, there is practically nothing I won't do to understand my nature, so I am a big defender of options and advocate of experimentation.



Edited by GoldStone (08/31/13 06:27 PM)

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#446074 - 08/31/13 06:50 PM ! [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
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Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (02/28/14 09:35 PM)

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#446079 - 08/31/13 07:16 PM ! [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
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Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (02/28/14 09:34 PM)

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#446098 - 08/31/13 11:33 PM Re: Michael Reagan: Child abuse makes people gay [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 916
Loc: New York
I'm not 100% convinced I believe in such a thing as lifelong exclusive devoted sexual orientation. As a bisexual that's probably easy for me to say! But seriously... if you look back through antiquity, through cultures of Rome and Greece, Japan, Arabia, Polynesia, New Guinea, you can see many cases where it was tolerated, understood, expected, for people to have both same-sex and opposite-sex encounters throughout their lives. In some cultures of New Guinea, homosexuality was mandatory, as they believed women were hosts of such dangerous, wicked, unclean evil spirits within them that the only men who would be powerful enough to impregnate them without becoming irrecoverably polluted in the process would be those who had already spent years absorbing semen from older, stronger men.

Everyone reading this board is the product of a modernized, Westernized 20th-century society, in which the very concepts and words "heterosexual" and "homosexual" are less than 200 years old. Well into the past century people believed that sexuality was something you DID, not something you WERE; I'm led to believe that the attitude towards experimentation was actually more liberal circa the 1920s-30s than it is now, when it has become more mainstreamed to file people in one sexual category or another for life, subject to something analogous to the old "one drop rule" in the antebellum South.


Matt
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#446111 - 09/01/13 04:10 AM Re: Michael Reagan: Child abuse makes people gay [Re: SoccerStar]
GoldStone Offline


Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 220
Loc: Far East
Originally Posted By: SoccerStar
I'm not 100% convinced I believe in such a thing as lifelong exclusive devoted sexual orientation. As a bisexual that's probably easy for me to say! But seriously... if you look back through antiquity, through cultures of Rome and Greece, Japan, Arabia, Polynesia, New Guinea, you can see many cases where it was tolerated, understood, expected, for people to have both same-sex and opposite-sex encounters throughout their lives. In some cultures of New Guinea, homosexuality was mandatory, as they believed women were hosts of such dangerous, wicked, unclean evil spirits within them that the only men who would be powerful enough to impregnate them without becoming irrecoverably polluted in the process would be those who had already spent years absorbing semen from older, stronger men.

Everyone reading this board is the product of a modernized, Westernized 20th-century society, in which the very concepts and words "heterosexual" and "homosexual" are less than 200 years old. Well into the past century people believed that sexuality was something you DID, not something you WERE; I'm led to believe that the attitude towards experimentation was actually more liberal circa the 1920s-30s than it is now, when it has become more mainstreamed to file people in one sexual category or another for life, subject to something analogous to the old "one drop rule" in the antebellum South.


Matt


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