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#445247 - 08/23/13 10:31 AM Re: Sex and the Survivor [Re: Jude]
Suwanee Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 719
Loc: Southeast USA
Definitely VERBOSE and potentially TRIGGERING.

I've posted on this before in other threads, but this is a good opportunity to gather my thoughts on the whole thing.

I speak of my sexual development in navigational terms.

1) I follow a vector toward my destination.
2) I encounter a storm.
3) I lose electronic navigational ability and remain adrift after the tempest.
4) I re-learn navigation via sextant and dead reckoning.
5) I re-join the original vector, but only after a lot of lost time.
6) I have new skills by the time I get to adulthood.

In more human terms, I began puberty at age 11-a little early, but not unusually so. While things are happening down there, I'm not freaking out because I'm expecting it all. In between swiped Playboy and Penthouse magazines, I had several books from the library (not checked out) about sexual development. I knew what was happening to me. I also had a copy of Desmond Morris's "The Naked Ape" that described human physiology and behavior as if we were a zoo specimen---very detached and clinical. The chapter on sexuality was pure intellectual porn for me.

I was eager to use what I had and did so--frequently. Girls were interesting--though they didn't seem interested in me. After IT happened, I became more sexually withdrawn trying to understand the significance of having(letting?) someone five years older fondle me to orgasm on several occasions. I was erect, it felt great. What I didn't ask for was being threatened, assaulted and raped by this same person when I dared say "no."

I went through a time of self-doubt about my sexuality. It's the same old dilemma. I got hard so I must be gay. I let him do it, so I must be gay. He anally r*ped me, so I must be gay. He chose me, so I must be gay. I went to an all-boys boarding school. I hoped it would extend an admissions offer, so I must be gay.

But I didn't totally feel that way. In high school, I wanted so badly to meet a girl--even a "bad" girl so I could sneak her into my dorm room and fuck her on my bed to see if that's what turned my crank. That didn't happen, so I must be gay. Truth be told, I was afraid of girls. They seemed so pure compared to my carnal thoughts. Any time I tied to get closer to them, I would only get so far before I was overcome with fear. Even holding hands gave me a raging hard on. Dancing? I was terrified of letting my "excitement" touch her. I stayed back so she didn't feel anything.

That's the point. She didn't feel anything. I was witty, charming---all of those things, but the physical distance I maintained left her guessing--wondering what the hell was wrong with her date. So, in the meantime I spanked it regularly, imagining giving and receiving all kinds of derogatory sex. I know how I would have spent a lot of time if there was Internet porn in 1988. There wasn't, so porn was limited to VCR copies of copies of John C. Holmes flicks that another kid brought from home in a Tupperware bowl-go figure. This was classic 70s mow chicka mow-mow stuff and I really just preferred my own theater of the mind.

By college, I was really beginning to worry. Gay? Straight? Bi. Other? Joining all kinds of recent arrivals on campus led to a little more confidence. I actually dated a GIRL for a while. She was more "forward" than the girls I had known in high school and didn't mind in the least that I showed my interest with an erection. She was a real "take charge" kind of gal. She pretty much told me what she wanted. Yes! A girl who will give direction. That's what I needed for years! She had me try all kinds of things.

But it wasn't all good. She dared comment on something. She in not so many words indicated that my penis was odd because I was not circumcised. She had never seen such a thing. Soooo...I'm finally making progress and she is repulsed by the same thing that the perp was infatuated with.

Damn.

That's when I impulsively convinced a urologist that I had a problem down there-one that called for circumcision. So, to rid myself what I thought attracted the perp and repulsed my first "normal" sexual partner, I gave up something-yet again. True, she was shallow---and I did regret doing that.

After wallowing in some self-pity, I began my upper-level coursework and encountered more and more intellligent girls (women?) who had a confidence I found very alluring. We talked politics, economics, weather, sex.

Sex.

This group of students was not a gaggle of sorority girls. They could have adult conversations where sex and politics blended seamlessly. I needed that. I ended up dating one of those girls during my last year of college. Sex was there, but it was pretty tame. I still felt like a creepy perp trying to cop a feel or get her in bed.

I won't go into the craziness of my post-college, pre-grad school years, but after graduation we went our separate ways and I was adrift again. Grad school came and closed out with no long-term relationships in sight. Two things happened next.

I lived in a neighborhood that was predominately gay. My neighbors were gay and I hung out with them at some of their parties. I had a great time, but more importantly, being around openly gay men put me at ease. It put me at ease, because they were great guys, and that I realized I had no desire to have a gay relationship. Beyond the normal SSA stuff that can come from CSA, I could see that I did not identify as being gay. I was just a fucked up straight guy.

Next, I met a woman my age whose parents lived not too far from where my parents once lived. We discovered a lot of common interests, people etc. She was single and had never been married, but seemed as interested in me as I was in her. We clicked in a way I had never experienced with anybody. I HAD to be with her.

She was also very sexually adventurous...so much so that she just about attacked me during a date. She was perplexed as to why I hadn't made any moves, so she took the lead. It triggered the hell out of me....and she thought I must be gay. I felt so bad by being spooked, that I vowed to correct it on the next date. So I did.

She still jokingly brings up that incident since I now call her my wife. We've been married ten years now. I just disclosed the CSA to her last fall. She jokingly mentioned the "freak out" episode again a few weeks ago and I had to remind her that I acted that way because of what happened to me as a boy. She felt bad after I said that.

I won't be gratuitous with specifics, but my wife is the best thing that has happened to me sexually, mentally, physically...all of it. It scares me sometimes how much of my well-being is held in her hands. She knows this and is very careful. Outside of the normal issues of having two kids, we still try to work in sex twice a week. It may be a quickie while the kids are watching TV, or a long session when they are with grandparents. I get especially horny after an intense workout or swim. I suspect she now associates the smell of chlorine with sex.

She knows that there are times when I now will ask her to take the lead sexually. It's safe re-creation perhaps--thinking about old bad good things.

I don't know if she sees it that way or not, but this is my destination.

Will


_________________________
Cruel Summer
My Journal

-Signs and traces left in stone
Ruins of a past unknown-

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#445252 - 08/23/13 12:18 PM Re: Sex and the Survivor [Re: Jude]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
Ultra-hypersexual. Insatiable. Frenzied. Two minutes after having sex I have to masturbate to the memory of the sex I just had. Beyond the sheer mechanics of it I often feel alone and nervous and need touch - to be held, cuddled, or just a brush of fingers on my wrist, anything. My threshold for feeling alone and rejected kicks in after about 3 hours at max.

When sexual desires really flared up around 12-13... AFTER I'd deciphered that the images in my head meant "sexual abuse"... I was mortified to find myself equally attracted to girls and guys. I was extremely and furiously homophobic. Not by coincidence, my father was too. I had a ritual mantra of straightness assurance words that I would repeat to myself hundreds of times a day in order to cement my heterosexuality and banish all thoughts of other guys forever.

Though I did not consciously feel damage from the initial rape, it left me passive and jittery and with a hair-trigger over-startle response. This made me prime meat for bullies. Which led to phase 2....

I basically threw myself at the feet of another boy for protection. He was only a few months older than me but had stampeded through early puberty and was an obnoxious, loud, strong-willed pushy asshole. Great characteristics for a bodyguard. Also some not unusual characteristics for a perp. He demanded a price for his protection and I paid it every single time. Not sex acts per se but sexual exploitation in total obedience to him. Thanks to him I saw my first hardcore porn at 12. The things he did with me, he also did with dozens of other neighborhood boys he initiated. This became the way all of us friends would behave with each other. It was a forbidden thrill to watch and afterwards I loathed the homoerotic feelings they represented even more. When I went off to college it was like Tarzan pulled from the jungle, as I definitely creeped out several other freshmen to whom no, THAT was definitely NOT what guys did when hanging out where they came from.

By age 24 my porn collection was so massive it filled a 7-foot ski-style duffel bag to the bursting point and I needed a friend stronger than me to carry it when I moved (I paid him in porn). I have injured myself 4 times through excessive masturbation seriously enough to have required medical intervention.

The "good news" is that between college and living / working in a major city, I learned and worked with and befriended many gay guys; I also screwed enough girls to know that I enjoyed it too much to be gay anyway, so around age 23 I calmed down and settled on myself as being bi through common sense and process of elimination. I will never know if that is my innate orientation or a result of the abuse.


I regret having not had the opportunity to develop or maintain non-sexualized friendships. To this day whenever a guy asks to hang out with me I wonder if it's going to go that way. On occasions when I've had to sleep near other men (ie field research, crashing on floors), I would usually lie awake all night, tense and erect, waiting and wondering. And usually wishing.


My wife had an extraordinary libido and in our early years together she actually managed to keep pace and satisfy me. And when I needed it even more than that, she thought it was flattering and felt sexy from it even if all it amounted to was me taking care of business while watching her.

2 children and a disclosure later, I'm afraid that's all changed. She's very regimented and its nowhere near what I need. The good news is that we at least are still very affectionate with each other and she deeply values and encourages forms of intimacy that don't have to involve sex. As long as it keeps us close... I can deal.

Ironically, she was disgusted to learn of my bisexuality and in the first few weeks after finding out she hit me with as much phobic-ness as I'd ever felt in the bad old days. She asked me between sobs if I had only married her because I'd seen her as mannish. But, we got through it and while its been something of a struggle, we are again partners, she has finally become very supportive, and as long as I can get regular affection, semi-frequent sex, and incessant access to porn, I can basically manage. Just her cuddling me for a few hours recently followed by unusually prolonged and vigorous sex reset me into an odd blissful state from which I have not reverted to baseline... yet.


Matt
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#445254 - 08/23/13 12:42 PM Re: Sex and the Survivor [Re: Jude]
AndyS87 Offline


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 302
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
Will,

I think I needed to hear that, because it allows me to have at least a little bit of hope that I'll find what I'm looking for someday.

Nothing in my life has made me angrier than having girls assume I was gay just because I didn't try to initiate. I would think "Jesus, if you only knew what I'd been through, you'd understand. Fuck you for judging me". I still am not really sure how to...if it's appropriate, am I hurting the other person, is she uncomfortable and not saying anything, is the timing right, blah blah blah.

I had another girl who I wasn't really attracted to openly ask me why I was being avoidant around her when she was giving me pretty obvious signals. She also thought I might have been gay, just because I didn't take her back to my room to engage in the no pants dance. She was also my RA at the time, so I felt like she was somebody I could trust, and I disclosed what had happened to me. She in turn disclosed that she had been in an abusive relationship and had experienced some sexual violence too, so she understood why I wasn't really present at that time. I had told her how I was still working things out and just wasn't really at the point where I could pursue sex.

Yet another very much took charge of the situation and basically decided to shack up with me for no other reason than she thought I was handsome and admired the fact that I wasn't drooling over her. The hilarious thing was that we were talking about our shared interest in martial arts, and that was that. We didn't even end up having sex, but oh. my. god. Definitely the most intense experience of my life. No woman before or since made me feel the way she did. At one point, we were just lying there, and she said "I feel so safe with you". I didn't even know how to react to those words. I decided to try and ask her for a date the next day, but when I got back to campus, she called and said "Hey, I was a little drunk last night, and you're nice and all, but I'm not looking for a relationship right now". I was crushed, and wouldn't you know the first thing I thought was "She rejected me, so somehow that must mean I'm gay". That used to be my thought process whenever I failed at something with women.

Anyways, thank you for your post. My SSA disappeared after therapy, and over time I've been slowly becoming less anxious or worried around gay people. I'm still not comfortable with going to gay clubs with my gay friends, but those of them who know what happened to me are very understanding of that.

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#445263 - 08/23/13 02:40 PM Re: Sex and the Survivor [Re: SoccerStar]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3342
Loc: O Kanada
Originally Posted By: SoccerStar
Ultra-hypersexual. Insatiable. Frenzied. Two minutes after having sex I have to masturbate to the memory of the sex I just had. Beyond the sheer mechanics of it I often feel alone and nervous and need touch - to be held, cuddled, or just a brush of fingers on my wrist, anything. My threshold for feeling alone and rejected kicks in after about 3 hours at max.


i was exactly like that!
you just reminded me.
i had almost forgotten how desperate i was for love, affection, intimacy.
wait a second... was?
i still am.
i just don't have the sex drive anymore.
i have had sex once this year, and that was my wife initiating.
i went from hypersexual horndog to celibate monk after my kids were born. i can't even have sex when the kids are in the house.
my wife hates it, but i cannot even contemplate the act, let alone maintain interest or erection, while the kids are in the house.
sex has become something dirty, disgusting, gross.
i don't even know how to flirt or seduce anymore.
i do not feel sexy.
i feel ugly.
this is some weird reaction to the excessive reckless perversions i once considered desirable.
i no longer crave or desire the hardcore stuff.
i used to "F___ like and animal".

i don't think my wife is very happy with the lack of libido.

whenever i feel the old urges return,
i fight them, until i end up alone with some porno.
i used to direct that energy at my wife.
i thought i was abusing her.
it always made me feel guilty after.
turns out she liked it.
now she wants her old lover back.

when i try to "make love" with her,
slow and gentle,
it turns out she prefers the slam bam intensity of my former self.
the person i was, the hardcore punk rock musician.
the person she married.
but that thought pattern is no longer comfortable for me.
it starts the trigger, and i just don't want to be that guy anymore.

i can't just simply "take it out" on her like i used to,
now that i am aware that is what i was doing all these years.
while we were having sex together,
i was having sex with myself in my own mind.
shameful thoughts that i could never share.
i still love my wife, i just can't objectify her anymore.

i am very confused.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#445295 - 08/23/13 09:45 PM Re: Sex and the Survivor [Re: AndyS87]
Suwanee Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 719
Loc: Southeast USA
Andy,

I'm glad my post helped you out. This is one messed up thing to sort through. I think that I really did get off course for ten or so years after it happened. By the time I had sorted through things, I experienced the normal teenage self-discovery----only I was deep into college by the time it happened. My development was slowed, but it eventually happened. I hope you find success here. It IS possible. It sounds like you have a good start.

Will
_________________________
Cruel Summer
My Journal

-Signs and traces left in stone
Ruins of a past unknown-

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#445311 - 08/24/13 02:47 AM Re: Sex and the Survivor [Re: Jude]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1530
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: txb
This woman I see for therapy is old. Like 50 or maybe even 60.
Whaddya mean old? 50-60 is the prime of life man.
Originally Posted By: Rich1967
It doesn't seem fair that as we are now finally able to have some type of healing that our bodies seem to be on a downward decline at the same time.
Actually I'm in the best physical shape of my life....except for my limp manhood
Originally Posted By: Suwanee
I won't be gratuitous with specifics, but my wife is the best thing that has happened to me sexually, mentally, physically...all of it. ....outside of the normal issues of having two kids, we still try to work in sex twice a week. It may be a quickie while the kids are watching TV, or a long session when they are with grandparents.
Will, you sound like you have successfully made the leap from sexually damaged to sexually satisfied. Care to share how you did that?
Originally Posted By: SoccerStar
I regret having not had the opportunity to develop or maintain non-sexualized friendships. To this day whenever a guy asks to hang out with me I wonder if it's going to go that way.
This has been a tuff issue for me. I've never had male friends. The one real male friend I had in college dumped me after I got drunk and tried to jump his bones. I just steered clear after that..
Originally Posted By: SoccerStar
I have injured myself 4 times through excessive masturbation seriously enough to have required medical intervention.
I was constantly making it bleed from rubbing the skin off. Mom sent me to the doctor when she found blood in my briefs. He made me show it to him. That was totally humiliating.
Originally Posted By: AndyS87
...and wouldn't you know the first thing I thought was "She rejected me, so somehow that must mean I'm gay". That used to be my thought process whenever I failed at something with women.
That was my thought too. I was so homophobic that anything bad about me meant I must be gay
Originally Posted By: Victim/Victor
i can't just simply "take it out" on her like i used to, now that i am aware that is what i was doing all these years. while we were having sex together,i was having sex with myself in my own mind. shameful thoughts that i could never share. i still love my wife, i just can't objectify her anymore.
I can so relate Victor. Sex with my wife was always hard and fast, all about me and getting my rocks off, proving that I wasn't gay. All the while I was imagining a variety of porn scenes that were my little secret. At the same time I resented her lack of interest. She never liked it and shut me off eventually.
Originally Posted By: Suwanee
My development was slowed, but it eventually happened. I hope you find success here. It IS possible. It sounds like you have a good start.
Hope so. It sucks to be middleaged and just finally figuring love and sex out.
_________________________
Well, I won't back down
No I won't back down
You can stand me up at the gates of hell
But I won't back down.
Tom Petty

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#445316 - 08/24/13 07:30 AM Re: Sex and the Survivor [Re: Jude]
txb Offline


Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 196
Originally Posted By: Jude
Whaddya mean old? 50-60 is the prime of life man.


Yes, you guys make it sound so awesome with all this talking about Viagra. Just kidding. I'll be glad to be older so people will take me seriously for a change.

This thread reminded me of the time I 'accidently caught myself in my zipper'. At least that was my cover story. I still have a tiny scar from that. In everything I do there never seems to be any middle ground. Everything's always all or nothing. Because of the drugs I am on right now I pretty much have zero desire. Or I do, but I lack the ability to follow it through. Maybe I need some Viagra after all. My girlfriend is coming home today after being abroad all summer. Of course this is great but I have built it up into a huge deal in my mind (as usual). It's going to be an epic fail I can tell.

This is a dumb question, but exactly is intimacy? I think it means knowing someone well...? But I'm not sure. What's so good about it?

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#445322 - 08/24/13 08:45 AM Re: Sex and the Survivor [Re: Jude]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: txb
This is a dumb question, but exactly is intimacy? I think it means knowing someone well...? But I'm not sure. What's so good about it?


In this context, it is the physical and emotional acceptance and comfort you share with another person. When people deeply care about each other, are interested in each other, want each other to feel good, and give of themselves through physical / emotional effort to make it happen. It can be sexual, it can be cuddling or massages or just holding hands, or just spending lots of close, personal, deeply involved time together. It can involve love but very close and interpersonal love - the love of those who CHOOSE to love and be loved back, as opposed to those who inherit love through birth and social expectation (in other words, family). I have a close and loving relationship with my dad and we hug frequently, but it's different from a hug I give my wife, even if it involves the same time and surface area of body contact and even if she and I hadn't had sex in two weeks (GOD FORBID!).

With intimacy you feel special, important, attractive, and validated. Whether taking a stroll ten years into a marriage or starting the next round of a passionate hookup, someone sees you, knows you, and says "Yes; I want to be yours; and you can be mine too." It means you are not alone. It is the opposite of loneliness, emptiness, and doubt.


Matt
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#445391 - 08/25/13 12:16 AM Re: Sex and the Survivor [Re: txb]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1530
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: txb
This is a dumb question, but exactly is intimacy? I think it means knowing someone well...? But I'm not sure. What's so good about it?
Wow, this almost deserves its own thread, but I'll give it a shot. Most of my life, I believed that sex was intimacy. That the joining of genitals was the only way to feel close. I now believe intimacy is knowing, and being know by, another person, in a deep and personal way, without judgement or fear. It requires absolute trust that the other person will continue to love you no matter what secrets you share with them. It means the masks come off, and who you really are shows. It can exist between friends, family, or lovers. It can be expressed through words, touch, facial expressions, and sometimes sex. However, most of the time intimacy does not require an erection. Hey, if enough guys get interested in intimacy, we may put the Viagra people out of business!
_________________________
Well, I won't back down
No I won't back down
You can stand me up at the gates of hell
But I won't back down.
Tom Petty

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#445396 - 08/25/13 01:33 AM Re: Sex and the Survivor [Re: Jude]
Rich1967 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 270
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Jude
It can exist between friends, family, or lovers. It can be expressed through words, touch, facial expressions, and sometimes sex. However, most of the time intimacy does not require an erection. Hey, if enough guys get interested in intimacy, we may put the Viagra people out of business!


LOL on the Viagra. The other stuff I found works and is cheaper.

I'm glad you included friends in the list. I've never been able to have that with my guy friends till just this last year. I was the homophobe as well and couldn't let myself go there. Intimacy (love) is what it's all about although I'm not giving up on the sex just yet - it's now a very fun form of expression :-)
_________________________
Rich

"Me too" - I don't think I will ever get tired of saying or hearing these two words.

My Story:
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=441625#Post441625

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