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#428406 - 03/18/13 11:10 PM Re: Fatherhood - breaking the cycle [Re: Farmer Boy]
Suwanee Online   content
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 695
Loc: Southeast USA
Lee,

This is a great post! I've thought about a response for a while. I guess my feelings are that CSA is different for different people. Some victims experience prolonged familial abuse---while others like me experience abuse by a stranger within a shorter period of time. They are both CSA and both are tragedies to the victim.

I don't have a true cycle to break, but I want to avoid working so much that I miss my children's milestones. I say this after a grueling day of travel---but I'm back home after a day of flying---1,500 miles round trip. My dad impressed upon me the regret he feels for being gone so often during my childhood. He traveled so often. "Cats in the Cradle" is his story. He was a great provider for our family, but he traveled to the ends of the Earth to bring home the bacon. His efforts allowed me to live in a comfortable world with lots of opportunity, but Dad's travel left me vulnerable.

A twisted person sensed this and did what he could to take advantage of me. He complimented me. He made me feel more special than the others. Oh i was special...

I don't blame Dad because I became a CSA victim, but perhaps I would have responded differently if he didn't travel so much. Maybe. Maybe not.

I am breaking the chain by being more present in my childrens' lives. I turn down ephemeral opportunity for more lasting dividends. In the process, I want my kids to see me as a the dad who instills confidence. I want them to have the ability to withstand attempts to take advantage of them. I want them to trust their instincts and not walk, but run when their 6th sense tells them to. That gift is priceless---and one my dad taught me---even if it was after I had kids of my own. He still taught me the lesson. Go dad. It's ok. You did a great job raising your son.

Will


Edited by Suwanee (03/18/13 11:31 PM)
_________________________
Cruel Summer
My Journal

-Signs and traces left in stone
Ruins of a past unknown-

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#428484 - 03/20/13 02:12 AM . [Re: Farmer Boy]
Life's A Dream Offline


Registered: 08/25/11
Posts: 886
Loc: Bouvet Island
.


Edited by Life's A Dream (04/21/13 10:56 PM)

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#428491 - 03/20/13 03:26 AM Re: Fatherhood - breaking the cycle [Re: Suwanee]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3600
Loc: South-East Europe
Originally Posted By: Suwanee
I don't have a true cycle to break, but I want to avoid working so much that I miss my children's milestones. I say this after a grueling day of travel---but I'm back home after a day of flying---1,500 miles round trip. My dad impressed upon me the regret he feels for being gone so often during my childhood. He traveled so often. "Cats in the Cradle" is his story. He was a great provider for our family, but he traveled to the ends of the Earth to bring home the bacon. His efforts allowed me to live in a comfortable world with lots of opportunity, but Dad's travel left me vulnerable.

A twisted person sensed this and did what he could to take advantage of me. He complimented me. He made me feel more special than the others. Oh i was special...

I don't blame Dad because I became a CSA victim, but perhaps I would have responded differently if he didn't travel so much. Maybe. Maybe not.

I am breaking the chain by being more present in my childrens' lives. I turn down ephemeral opportunity for more lasting dividends. In the process, I want my kids to see me as a the dad who instills confidence. I want them to have the ability to withstand attempts to take advantage of them. I want them to trust their instincts and not walk, but run when their 6th sense tells them to. That gift is priceless---and one my dad taught me---even if it was after I had kids of my own. He still taught me the lesson. Go dad. It's ok. You did a great job raising your son.

Will


Same here, my father was great and supportive but not enough present (if present at all sometimes) in my life.
I was shocked when I visited my home from college and when I've seen my dad playing with small nephew wrestling on the floor. In some way I was in shock as I never seen him playing with me and my brother like that. He remarried after my mother died and I guess started some sort of "new life" which included playing with this cute nephew from my step mother's side.
The biggest shock that I felt was when we were discussing my and my bro's further education after we were finishing primary school. My father said that would be better for us to finish some apprenticeship, which means shorter high school and no college. I understood his position as he didn't like to work for others and in some administration where he was but at other hand I loved education so much. My parents never have had to do anything related to my school and me and my brother were always among top students. It has been implied that we will at least try to finish some college. I felt like
he never seen me in real light and like I grown in some shadow world unseen.
Those are some of things that I'm dealing in my therapy lately and that bothered me for long...

Pero
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#444106 - 08/12/13 02:03 PM Re: Fatherhood - breaking the cycle [Re: Farmer Boy]
concerned_husky Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 585
This thread really teared me up. I hope I can join you guys one day. You guys are awesome dads.


Edited by concerned_husky (08/12/13 02:11 PM)
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Husky

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#444112 - 08/12/13 02:42 PM Re: Fatherhood - breaking the cycle [Re: Farmer Boy]
Jay1946 Offline


Registered: 08/08/13
Posts: 76
Loc: Miami, Florida, USA
I had a very troubled relationship with my Dad during my teenage years. (my abuser was a male teacher at school, so no csa issues with my Dad). He owned his own business, which underwent a crisis just at the time I became a teen, and Dad wasn't around very much. I grew up longing for a close relationship with a father.

Our first born is a son. I've always been present for him since he was a child, but when he became a teen I made sure we did a lot of fun adventure stuff together. I enjoyed it because I missed that when I was a teen, and the experiences served to further bond us together. Today he is in his mid-thirties, a father himself, and our relationship is very close-with him, his wife and our first grandson (their son).

After my teen years, my Dad and I forged a very close relationship. He became my mentor and advisor until he died in 1991. I felt his love and was able to express mine. I miss him, but I'm at peace over his passing.

Jay
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Jay

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#444115 - 08/12/13 02:58 PM Re: Fatherhood - breaking the cycle [Re: Farmer Boy]
bodyguard8367 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/27/14 06:49 PM)

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#444153 - 08/12/13 11:05 PM Re: Fatherhood - breaking the cycle [Re: Farmer Boy]
TwoSpiritRising Offline


Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 32
Breaking the CYCLE:

If you nourish the best parts of you, and do not fear the other parts, then slowly you transform.

I know I'm not a rapist.
I know I'm not a sexist.
I know I'm not an enabler, or a denier.

But I do have some of those potentialities within me. And I think we owe ourselves, as the dominant sex (perhaps race, class, age, or orientation) to seriously consider how to better ourselves, and diminish our passive and active oppressive behaviors.

Here's an example:

I'm lying next to my infant daughter and my partner. And my CSA trauma starts acting up; gets me feeling like I'm afraid to be close to them, and like I want to go sleep on the couch. (Some of you may be familiar with this response to closeness.)

I lay there, and harsh pornographic images come through my head. I am scared of them, and I feel my pulse quicken. I am not aroused. I allow my fear, but I let my calm come forward as well, and I meditate on the experience. They pass. I am one experience better at being close with others, without running in any way.

I am truly scared of acts of violation like these, which are hard to avoid, in our culture. But nourishing myself with the presence of my trusting family helped them pass.

How long I denied even this simple fear, by acting all sorts of foolish: sexualizing closeness with female friends, seeking out pornography or macho culture to re-assert an internal delusion of dominance over women, which might keep me 'safe' etc, etc. Behind these behaviors was the simple hurt of fear of violation.

This night, the fear passes easily, with some small hurt; my calm won out, and this time I am present as a father.

Breaking the cycle doesn't just mean not raping someone. It means learning to see them with your full, loving attention, without privilege or domination affecting the interaction. It means, in this situation, not acting 'foolish' and becoming less present to my family. It also means grounding myself to the reality that, in the present moment, I am not being violated.

It all takes constant undoing. For me, it seems, the defenses are more opaque than the abuse and hard to see through.

Certain people in your life make you realize that it's time to shape up. I think, maybe, that Marriage and Fatherhood have been my best reasons for undertaking that struggle.

After all, at the heart of it are the experiences that you have already *survived*!

**Hey, by the way, thanks all. I get so psyched by seeing fathers who are so ahead of the generation that raised them! Also felt like I should clarify: father not perp, but he and my mother significantly let me down by ignoring me and my physical violation turned into ongoing, life-long psycho-sexual abuse by my mother. Rocky, opaque, tense relationship of mutual denial. Maybe one day when it crystallizes more, I'll write my story. **


Edited by TwoSpiritRising (08/14/13 12:34 AM)

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#444159 - 08/13/13 12:13 AM Re: Fatherhood - breaking the cycle [Re: Farmer Boy]
ThisMan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/13
Posts: 767
Loc: upper south
I am so glad this was bumped forward. Thanks, Husky.

My dad... from the earliest days, I have almost no memory of him. He was around- somewhere- I just don't know where. Well, I take that back. I remember his constant drinking and loud threats. And I remember the nightly "whippings" I got with along with my little brother cause we dared to behave like kids. And I remember the night of the "double belt buckles" and some pretty demeaning names and comments made in front of my older brothers.

Decent memories begin with him around 14, but by that time he was "sickly" and his health continually declined until he passed away when I was 20. So for those 6 years, it was all about him because he needed the assistance due to the illness. Never heard, "I love you" or "I am proud of you". Never talked about my future, or my dreams, or my aspirations. Never felt a safe touch or a hug from him. Actually never felt safe around him. Ever. I always feared him. Oh, well. His lose.

My sons.... I limited their exposure to my family... and even today explain the nonsensical dynamics as they play out so that they can understand better not to repeat or get caught up in the dramatics...and to better understand how what happened to me with the CSA happened.

I always hugged them appropriately. Always wrestled with them, played with them, reassured them. I was lucky because I took them to the same elementary school where I taught so I saw them off every morning and saw them immediately after school every afternoon. I read to them, walked with them, did chores with them. I tucked them in, and I answered their cries at night.

I NEVER raised a hand to them, physically threatened them, or used an inanimate object to strike them.

I listened to their dreams and helped them to achieve them best I could. When others said, "No, you should do this", I said, "Follow your heart. It's your life." And they both are in service to others.

I permitted them to see me run the house and care for their mom when she was so very ill. They both actively help run their own houses and nurture the love with their own spouses.

And every chance I could I told them I loved them, and still do today.

My greatest joy is watching these guys with their children, how each one nurtures and spends time with their own.

My second greatest joy is when these big men tower over me- I am only 6' 2"- and they put their arms around me with a hug and say, "love you, dad". It's not forced, it's not for show in front of anyone, it is standard guy behavior among the three of us. So as you guys have said before, if I have kids like this I have done something so very correct. I have broken the cycle of neglect and abuse.

Farmer Lee, you are so awesome for thinking of this. The rest of you guys... I am so honored to be counted among you. So honored.
_________________________
For now we see through a glass, darkly.



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#444223 - 08/13/13 05:06 PM Re: Fatherhood - breaking the cycle [Re: Farmer Boy]
Farmer Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
Thanks Husky again for bumping this. I had been meaning to add more on my own relationship with my dad.

I have come to see him as a very broken man with his own issues. (possibly even CSA) Things with him really turned around after I got bigger than him and stronger and became successful and married a beautiful, strong and independent woman. After I became the son he always wanted. I am trying really hard not to hold a grudge against him. I know he loves me and is proud of me...now (but it is conditional). And since I became a farmer he has something to talk to me about too. I really think he just didn't know how to talk to me before (the arty child). He is really trying I think. Sometimes it feels like too little too late....

It has even gotten to the point where I have 'trained' him to hug me. I decided I wasn't going to let him get away with it. I took control. So I started hugging him hello and good bye (a manly pat on the back sort of hug) and now he comes looking for it. In a way I think it has been healing for us both.

He is 76 and from a different era for sure. I would say he is a generation behind most of my friends dads. He is WAY different with my kids. He asks about them on the phone and HE actually rings me sometimes. (I have to talk to my mum every Sunday night). When he visits he actually lights up when my kids go running towards him for a hug. AND he will play trains or blocks or whatever with my son. My kids have been good for him. No one can resist their smile . When he comes to visit he wants to help me on the farm. The funny thing is I'm too scared to let him use my equipment in case he breaks it (he has a reputation). He can't keep up with me when I am working now and I really have to be patient. Talk about full circle.

About 12 years ago he had a bad accident. He had been fighting fires for days and that day from 6am to 10pm. He was on his way home and pulled out onto the highway in from of a motocyclist (an off duty policeman) - killing him instantly. My dad was a mess. And because it was a policeman it was all over the TV etc. He developed major anxiety and couldn't cope at all. There was an inquest. I being the 'smart' one in the family took charge and employed a laywer friend/client that I did some design work for. He handled it really well. I took my dad to the court hearing, shielded him from the cameras etc. There was no charges laid in the end. It was kind of like the changing of the guards. Like I was the parent now protecting him. That really changed him. He still in on valium and is prone to being verbally abusive to my mum and I am careful with him around my kids because I don't want them to see that.

But he is trying to be a good dad now and I have got to give him credit for that. He would never admit he let me down but that is ok.

So I guess I have not only broken the cycle with my own kids but I have tried to repair the relationship with my dad.

Lee
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More than meets the eye!

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#444227 - 08/13/13 05:59 PM Re: Fatherhood - breaking the cycle [Re: Farmer Boy]
freeze-on Offline


Registered: 08/08/09
Posts: 72
Loc: southeast
Hey guys

though dad was not my perp, i screened all that happened to me as a kid thru the screen of his emotional distancing that he chose not to deal with(his own emotions, his own wounds); thus he couldnt relate to me or connect......i screened all of my life events thru my dad, and always got a lack of approval rating....thus some of my acting out issues to gain approval from others....

now as my children are leaving home i look back over life events and see that dad really did care, his efforts to show it was not interpreted well by me, but i look back and see how he cared and know now that daddy did love me and does love me......i am 50 years old....we farmed and hunted and fished and all i did with him i interpreted it with dread and harshness and really didnt relish the times then as they were happening...

i travel back in time in my mind and re-claim the love that i know was there...i go back and enjoy the times with him, i go back and reclaim what was lost....and this in turn is healing to me inside, and i know healing to him as i relate better to him now.

He use to say...when i was 16 i could lift an anvil over my head, yada yada yada....like i was competing with him....back then it bothered me ...today i see it as his way of encouraging me to grow and be like him and affirm him somehow by my performance....but that was his way, a way i have learned to accept though not always emotionally fulfilling, but sometimes painful(as opposed to lifetimes version of father son relationship in tv land)....

healing for me now is to be his confidant....to buy incontinent devices for him as he gets older for example....he relies on me to help with his finances, he asks for advice, he trusts my decisions and i know now, after all the crap of my "little boy editing of our life events" that he truly loves, he truly cares and he truly believes in me....the tables have turned and all the anger i used to have has turned to sadness as i seem him age and become more dependent on me.

and like lee stated, i prefer to not let him operate any of the farming equipment or help me with that one hour job that turns into 6 with his assistance and "rigging".

sorry to jump in but i felt i needed to pay homage to aging dads, despite their weaknesses.

peace bro.s

thanks for being here and walking this life with me.

best of all, i know that his love is merely a drop in the bucket compared to the creator of my soul and the future i have in store as i attempt to celebrate every day the life i have.

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