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#442168 - 07/25/13 08:22 PM What really bothers me about Zimmerman shooting
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Ohio
This is a big controversy but a critical aspect of this gets almost no play. Everybody is focused on race and self-defense/gun rights. I'll give you my opinion in a nutshell so I am not hiding anything: Stand Your Ground is a good law and necessary to protect honest citizens protecting themselves (not just with guns). It means you don't have to prove you couldn't run somehow and lowers the burden of proving self-defense. BUT, Zimmerman is guilty of murder...even with SYG, you can't provoke a fight and then "defend" yourself when you are losing it.

Now to what really bothers me that the public is openly discriminating against Trayvon Martin. What the girlfriend testified to rings pretty true to my first impressions: Young teen male walking alone after dark. "Creepy" guy in a pickup truck follows. GF tells him to run. He does. Creep gets out of the truck and follows. They end up meeting behind the house. How many here would feel threatened and fight the person? Yet everyone dismisses that a teen male can be a victim. Martin had every bit as much right to defend himself as Zimmerman, yet the actual confrontation was initiated by Zimmerman (this is where the Jury and the jury instructions blew it). Martin FLED. The reason the Zimmerman defense team opted to stay away from SYG as a defense was mainly because it highlighted the fact that MARTIN had NO DUTY TO RETREAT. Yet everyone dismisses this because we are trained to think young males have nothing to fear. We know males have good reason to fear and much of the purpose of this site is to overcome that myth. I think more noise needs to be made about this.


Edited by catfish86 (07/25/13 08:24 PM)
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God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

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#442189 - 07/25/13 11:16 PM Re: What really bothers me about Zimmerman shooting [Re: catfish86]
mattheal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 142
Loc: Ohio
Satire from the onion says it best
http://www.theonion.com/articles/nation-throws-hands-up-tells-black-teenagers-to-do,33125/
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#442217 - 07/26/13 08:03 AM Re: What really bothers me about Zimmerman shooting [Re: catfish86]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
If Martin hadn't started out afraid, his girlfriend told him over the phone that she - seeing such a situation through a woman's eyes - suspected rape. So the idea was in his head.

It's also worth pointing out, as Amanda Marcotte did, that since Zimmerman WASN'T on any "neighborhood watch," that he was a self-appointed snoop who spied and followed people with no uniform or marked car and absolutely no legal authority whatsoever, that if he did keep Martin on the sidewalk to interrogate him or hold him for police - perhaps at gunpoint? - then that is KIDNAPPING.

Any scenario that legitimizes and presumes virtue upon armed strangers tailing kids is a nightmare waiting to happen (again).

Oh hey speaking of which, Zimmerman's cousin said he molested and raped her repeatedly, starting at age 6 and continuing for 10 years. Gosh. It's almost like the dude enjoys inflicting pain and power on those younger and smaller than himself.
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#442221 - 07/26/13 09:34 AM Re: What really bothers me about Zimmerman shooting [Re: catfish86]
unhappycamper Offline


Registered: 10/21/11
Posts: 588
Loc: VA
(1) ... and didn't Zimmerman have a reputation with the police for dialing them up and delivering phone rants about African-Americans? Though I believe the article mentioned he didn't use the term "African-American."

(2) I didn't follow the trial closely, but did anyone suggest why Z was driving around the neighborhood at night with a gun? When I did (official) Neighborhood Watch, the police told us some rules--two of which were: No weapons, and Don't Intervene.

(3) At the trial, there was apparently some sudden doubt as to who made the emergency phone call. Anyone know whose phone was used? Anyone identify the recorded voice? Those calls are always recorded.

Just wondering. Issues like these highlight what a bad idea "Stand Your Ground" wild-west laws are.

JLC

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#442222 - 07/26/13 09:38 AM Re: What really bothers me about Zimmerman shooting [Re: catfish86]
unhappycamper Offline


Registered: 10/21/11
Posts: 588
Loc: VA
... oh, yes, and

(4) Somebody tell the ex-jurors to shut the f@ck up.

John

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#442228 - 07/26/13 11:03 AM Re: What really bothers me about Zimmerman shooting [Re: catfish86]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
Was gonna keep my mouth shut, but...

Excuse me, wtf does ANY of this have to do with CSA? Wanna make a bet on how long it degenerates into flaming? At this rate, no, it doesn't even belong on the Off Topic board.

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#442353 - 07/27/13 12:40 PM Re: What really bothers me about Zimmerman shooting [Re: catfish86]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Ohio
As to the appropriateness of the topic...teen boy fearful that a creep might be an abductor punches the abductor and is then shot.

Someone mentioned Zimmerman having a gun. For those not among the Concealed Carry crowd, a large percentage have the permit and only occasionally carry. A large percentage carries everywhere at any time they are allowed. The thinking behind this is that criminals show up on their schedule, not yours. Most muggers and rapists don't honor time-out while I go get my gun.

Now, unhappycamper, you are right, that Zimmerman was going against EVERYTHING he was taught in the neighborhood watch program and unfortunately demonstrated WHY when he ended up killing an innocent, unarmed teenager.

As to people holding others, it is legal in most states IF the citizen actually observes the person COMMITTING a crime. Something Zimmerman acknowledges that he did not observe.
_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

Top
#442429 - 07/28/13 05:16 PM Re: What really bothers me about Zimmerman shooting [Re: catfish86]
Suwanee Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 685
Loc: Southeast USA
My only commentary:

Terrible collisions happen at the intersection of hubris and fear.

Zimmerman and Martin are both victims of SYG. One paid with the life he once once knew; one paid with his life.


Will
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#442481 - 07/29/13 01:47 AM Re: What really bothers me about Zimmerman shooting [Re: catfish86]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Ohio
Syg is not the cause of this. Syg removed the duty to retreat. Many victims of assault are in prison because they couldn't PROVE they had no way to retreat.

The jury is sounding like they were confused and let Zimmerman get away with murder. The key is they acknowledge Zimmerman initiatedthe confrontation ...something you can't do even with syg.
_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

Top
#443204 - 08/04/13 05:09 AM Re: What really bothers me about Zimmerman shooting [Re: catfish86]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3007
Loc: O Kanada
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