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#444735 - 08/19/13 10:26 PM Re: posse comitatus [Re: Chase Eric]
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#444751 - 08/20/13 12:46 AM Re: posse comitatus [Re: victor-victim]
SoccerStar Offline
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Registered: 10/15/12
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To the "defenders" of this thread, I'd ask:

What makes you so sure Sandusky did anything?

All you have is evidence, as asserted by witnesses, investigated by authorities, and reported by the media.

And it is that precise type of evidentiary, fact-based, empirical reasoning that most of the sources cited in this thread are dedicated to undoing.

From Holocaust denial, to Obama death squads, to Alex Jones' 9/11Trutherism and Sandy Hook "crisis actor" denialism, to Oliver Stone's four hour magnum opus of fabricated witnesses, false timelines, and fictional ballistics evidence known as "JFK," what we have here is a rogue's gallery of excuses NOT to look at reality, NOT to trust evidence, NOT to cooperate with authorities, and NOT to validate the processes and results of our entire justice system and the very concept of evidentiary reasoning as a whole.

9/11 was possibly the single most widely-witnessed and well-examined crime in history. For its "official story" as deduced by evidence and investigated by the justice system to actually be a lie, literally tens of thousands of people throughout this country would have to have been involved in a flawlessly well-orchestrated and insanely overcomplicated plot - which left behind no hard evidence nor produced any leaks, of course.

Glenn Beck likewise insists that global warming is a hoax, a scientific conspiracy. Which by definition would involve hundreds of thousands of conspirators producing tens of millions of pieces of fraudulent data, across multiple countries with wildly differing political and economic foundational systems, and stretching back in time through very nearly 200 years of laboratory observations which all would have to have been a hoax as well.

Once we've opened that door and validated that line of thinking.... well, heck, why NOT also quote John Ziegler and his fellow Penn State Truthers? Because what IS the evidence against Sandusky that can convict him, if the evidence against Osama bin Laden, Adolf Hitler, Lee Harvey Oswald, and Adam Lanza isn't enough and had to have all been a lie? Jerry Sandusky was one man with perhaps 20 victims - excuse me, "victims" - all in a relatively small area, just a few buildings, over a few years. Bin Laden confessed on film to planning the attacks, but that isn't good enough for an Alex Jones. Well, Sandusky says he's innocent; case open, I suppose?

The dead and crippled children of Sandy Hook, their bereaved and traumatized families, are done no favors, given no protection, by political ghouls proclaiming the whole affair to have ACTUALLY been another Obaman Sekrit Mooslim plot to stage a phony attack that justifies taking your guns away.


This issue is personal to me. Growing up in New York there was no escaping the story of Arnold and Jesse Friedman, who used their computer tutoring class as a cover to rape and torture dozens of boys. Or so the "official story" goes, anyway. From the authorities and from the media. Now, according to an ambitious filmmaker behind a 2003 "documentary" about the Friedmans, it was actually all a hoax. All of the boys were lying. They'd been hypnotized and coerced by cops and fed false memories. And they'd even retracted their stories when they grew up. "Free Jesse," cried every Internet expert, "free Jesse! There was no evidence, the kids all lied, the cops were crooked! I read it somewhere!"

Well.... the victims and their families and their therapists and the original trial judge are still on the record, a quarter of a century later, that there was NO hypnosis; NO recantations; NO police puppeteering; and REAL physical evidence. Blood in the underwear evidence.

Bullshit, says the maverick filmmaker and his Internet fans. The boys were all lying. No rapes, no blood in the underwear, nothing.

How many guys here at MS had to see their own bloody underwear? How many had their parents find it? How many hid it? What would it feel like to have all of them told "You never saw it - you are lying - they are innocent - you are guilty"? I ask rhetorically of course since I know for a fact that many guys here did suffer exactly that.

They should not have had to.

And no one else should have to either.

We serve our causes best with facts, not with fantasies. By rebuilding and taking control of our own histories, instead of constructing comic book villain pseudohistories that disregard the suffering of the victims in favor of chic contrarianism. By facing and overcoming the reality of human cruelty, as documented by evidence of that cruelty - and not by saying all the evidence is a lie and the perpetrators are just patsies.

The stories of a few boys being raped in a Penn State locker room are small enough to be buried and discredited forever as collateral damage accompanying the million-square international crime-hydra of a staged 9/11, a faked Holocaust, crisis actors in Sandy Hook. Once all criminological and historical facts have been destroyed, no evidence of Sandusky's guilt can be fairly gathered, reported, judged, or believed.

Is it worth it?

For a YouTube video?

Is it REALLY worth it?


Matt
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#444764 - 08/20/13 07:30 AM Re: posse comitatus [Re: victor-victim]
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#444989 - 08/21/13 06:32 PM THE BIG LIE [Re: SoccerStar]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3046
Loc: O Kanada
i would like to take this opportunity to repost a reminder from earlier in this thread.
Originally Posted By: victor-victim

there has not been any discussion regarding the topic i posted,
which is freedom of speech versus privacy versus censorship versus public safety.

considering what suppression and silence and secrecy has done to victims of sexual abuse, especially male survivors,
this topic is very relevant to my recovery.
part of my trauma was caused by politics.
some cases are more politically involved and complex than others.
some cases of abuse involve politicians, government, agencies, employees, institutions, cover-ups, corruption, apathy, etc.
mine did.

i question authority.
i support transparency and accountability.



"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force.
Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master
."
- George Washington -

Dear SoccerStar,

in your post you introduce a number of new topics.
"Jerry Sandusky"
"holocaust denial"
"Obama death squads"
"9/11 trutherism"
"Sandy hook crisis actor denialism"
"Oliver Stone's JFK"
"global warming is a hoax, a scientific conspiracy"
"John Ziegler"
"penn state truthers"
"Osama bin Laden"
"Lee Harvey Oswald"
"Adam Lanza"
"Obaman Sekrit Mooslim"
"Arnold and Jesse Friedman"


sorry, i don't have enough knowledge or information about those issues you brought up, nothing worth sharing.
i have not formed conclusions nor have i expressed opinions about any of those items.
i would need more details before i could respond.
some of these names i know nothing about.
research is required.

you have introduced a number of topics which are not previously mentioned in this thread.
the questions seem to be unrelated to the previous posts.
non sequitur
no offense, but i wonder if you are perhaps replying to a different thread?

in closing, i would like to say that i value research and investigation over speculation and doctrine.
i prefer exposure and disclosure over secrecy and suppression.
i urge examination of details before accepting official stories.

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
- Arthur Conan Doyle -
"Truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies."
- Winston Churchill -
"History is a set of lies agreed upon."
- Napoleon Bonaparte -

Originally Posted By: Still
Its really quite disappointing and disturbing that some are told to stop bringing "politics" into the site, as they have no bearing on CSA....that we are brothers in healing and ought not be divided...When clearly, both religion AND politics seem to play a role in the healing of many survivors.

quoted from another thread.
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=444768#Post444768

Originally Posted By: victor-victim
STOP THE SILENCE!





quoted from another thread
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=443645&page=2


MORE about the art of PROPAGANDA and the BIG LIE

"in the BIG LIE there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the BIG LIE than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying."

"follow the principle that when one lies, one should LIE BIG, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous."

"people will believe a BIG LIE sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it."

sources:
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Lie
- http://www.businessinsider.com/ndaa-legalizes-propaganda-2012-5
- http://rt.com/usa/propaganda-us-smith-amendment-903/
- http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/
- http://www.historians.org/projects/giroundtable/Propaganda/Propaganda1.htm
- http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propaganda

Passed as part of the National Defense Authorization Act [NDAA 2013] HR 4310, signed by Obama on 12/29/2012.
- http://www.smithmundt.com/what-does-smit...ent-propaganda/
- http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr5736
- http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hr5736ih/pdf/BILLS-112hr5736ih.pdf
- http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.5736:
- http://thornberry.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=296108


One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
- Carl Sagan -

"The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists."
- J.Edgar Hoover -
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#445013 - 08/21/13 09:56 PM Re: THE BIG LIE [Re: victor-victim]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
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Originally Posted By: victor-victim
you have introduced a number of topics which are not previously mentioned in this thread.
the questions seem to be unrelated to the previous posts.
non sequitur
no offense, but i wonder if you are perhaps replying to a different thread?


Ummmmm.......yeah..........was wondering bout that myself.
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#445093 - 08/22/13 11:10 AM Re: THE BIG LIE [Re: Still]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Still
Originally Posted By: victor-victim
you have introduced a number of topics which are not previously mentioned in this thread.
the questions seem to be unrelated to the previous posts.
non sequitur
no offense, but i wonder if you are perhaps replying to a different thread?


Ummmmm.......yeah..........was wondering bout that myself.


A previous poster brought up Sandusky as a defense of this thread, basically saying that blocking important discussions leads to the secrecy in which he was able to thrive.

Every single other thing mentioned (9/11Trutherism, Sandy Hook "crisis actors," Lee Harvey Oswald) were brought up in this thread's links or by the people who wrote them - except for the Friedman perp team. That was the only thing I introduced, and since it is an example of how this sort of anti-evidentiary "hidden plot" type of thinking actually helps perps and hurts victims, it is not a non-sequitur.

The point remains: if the threads cited here are correct and Osama bin Laden and Adam Lanza are innocent, then Jerry Sandusky MUST be innocent as his crimes were of a much smaller scale and would have been easier to fake. If people don't believe a dead kid who got autopsied and put in a coffin in Sandy Hook, by what imaginable standard of reasoning can they believe a living kid in Penn State who said a few words and then went home?
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#445121 - 08/22/13 03:16 PM Re: THE BIG LIE [Re: victor-victim]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3046
Loc: O Kanada
i am only asking questions.
just curious.
i like to explore, examine, research, study, and investigate.
many things don't make sense.

the official stories are not credible.

questioning an official story does not mean i know what really happened.
questioning an official story does not mean i have an alternate theory.
questioning an official story does not mean i reject everything presented therein.
questioning an official story does not mean i blindly believe everything presented by alternate news sources which also question that official story.

i make no accusations.

i offer no opinions.

i advocate scientific skeptic suspicion.

i have worked in media for thirty years.
it is my business.
we called it "subvertising" "infotainment" etc.
but never is it "the truth".
mainstream news is "produced" for profit and "composed" for the consumers.
it is "designed" to distract.
in short, it is emotional entertainment.
what is portrayed is never the truth.
only a collection of facts and rumours.
which facts and rumours make it into the story depends on a series of unpredictable parameters which are never the same twice.

i urge everyone to doubt all information sources,
including the large and popular corporates.

beware the bias.
beweare the false balance.

the capitalistic funding system of the media distorts the incentive to produce objective news.
in order to maximize their profits and please their sponsors, they must maximize consumption of their news.

the media can’t help but fall prey to the dangers of bias.
it is a weakness of the human condition which allows reporters to be reduced to mere mouthpieces of special-interest groups; which allows entertaining stories to outsell informative ones; which means the media seeks a cause, an angle, a reason, a hero, a winner, a loser, someone to blame.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_manipulation

“If you get information from one source, it’s called plagiarism; if you get it from two or more sources, it’s called research.”

Originally Posted By: SoccerStar
if the threads cited here are correct


one should never assume that everything found on these links (or any website) is 100% accurate.
this is where a critical thinker must use deductive reasoning, inductive logic, common sense, and natural instinct.
this is when i get out my occam's razor.


If we can't think for ourselves, if we're unwilling to question authority,
then we're just putty in the hands of those in power.
But if the citizens are educated and form their own opinions, then those in power work for us.
In every country, we should be teaching our children the scientific method and the reasons for a Bill of Rights
.”
- Carl Sagan
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#445138 - 08/22/13 04:48 PM manufacturing consent [Re: victor-victim]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3046
Loc: O Kanada
MANUFACTURING CONSENT

"Control of thought is more important for governments that are free and popular than for despotic and military states. The logic is straightforward: a despotic state can control its domestic enemies by force, but as the state loses this weapon, other devices are required to prevent the ignorant masses from interfering with public affairs, which are none of their business…the public are to be observers, not participants, consumers of ideology as well as products."
- Noam Chomsky


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO51ahW9JlE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQhEBCWMe44


"The major media-particularly, the elite media that set the agenda that others generally follow-are corporations “selling” privileged audiences to other businesses. It would hardly come as a surprise if the picture of the world they present were to reflect the perspectives and interests of the sellers, the buyers, and the product. Concentration of ownership of the media is high and increasing. Furthermore, those who occupy managerial positions in the media, or gain status within them as commentators, belong to the same privileged elites, and might be expected to share the perceptions, aspirations, and attitudes of their associates, reflecting their own class interests as well. Journalists entering the system are unlikely to make their way unless they conform to these ideological pressures, generally by internalizing the values; it is not easy to say one thing and believe another, and those who fail to conform will tend to be weeded out by familiar mechanisms."
- Noam Chomsky

http://parisis.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/noam-chomsky.pdf http://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/hj/chomskyhermanpropmodel.pdf
http://focalizalaatencion.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/herman-chomsky-2002-manufacturingconsent.pdf
http://library.uniteddiversity.coop/Media_and_Free_Culture/Noam_Chomsky-Media_Control.pdf


who is NOAM CHOMSKY? ?
Institute Professor & Professor of Linguistics (Emeritus)
Linguistic Theory, Syntax, Semantics, Philosophy of Language
MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology)

http://www.chomsky.info/
http://web.mit.edu/linguistics/people/faculty/chomsky/index.html

"Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves."
- Robert Kennedy

"The government you elect is government you deserve."
- Thomas Jefferson
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#445145 - 08/22/13 05:29 PM Re: THE BIG LIE [Re: victor-victim]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
Quote:
the official stories are not credible


They are to me - and even if they weren't, Appeal To Incredulity is a logical fallacy. Many real things are all but unbelievable: atoms are very small, have never even been seen, Hiroshima was very big and you could walk through it and see and touch it, but that atom bomb still destroyed Hiroshima.

So I agree that, yes, we need to rely on the most well-demonstrated evidence possible and be aware of Occam's Razor. But in all cases cited here, the Razor cuts towards the official story.

"Dissenting from the official stories" of 9/11, like Alex Jones, puts you in opposition of brute facts of physics and avionics - and that's a bad place to be.

For the Kennedy murder, like Oliver Stone, you must go up against brute facts of physics and ballistics - again, a bad place to be.

For global warming like Glenn Beck, it's the brute facts of chemistry arrayed against you - again, a losing proposition.

And in all of those cases, there's the matter of the tens to hundreds of thousands of conspirators who would have to have their nefarious plans unfold without a hitch and stay that way for decades or centuries - in a world where, try as they might, the richest and most powerful people who have the most to lose can't even make the stock market keep moving in their favor even though it's something completely man-made. Such human perfection would be logistically unachievable even if the immutable forces governing our universe DIDN'T make the schemes impossible from day 1.

There is nothing universally physically ironclad that 100% rules out a hoax at Sandy Hook, or birdflu being cooked up in a secret lab on President Obama's orders. Those would be biochemically, physically possible. However, they also are so staggeringly overcomplicated, doused with such immense risk to deliver minimal benefit, as to remove any motive or hope of remaining a secret. Obama was clever enough to stage a fake school shooting that would allow him to... introduce weak gun control legislation in Congress, weaker than the laws we had on the books 20 years ago... and then sit back and watch while even that weak push is voted down? You can't be a LITTLE BIT of an evil genocidal dictatorial all-powerful puppetmaster - you either are one or you're not. If you could succeed in phase 1, failure in phase 2 would be impossible.

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. Questions are not evidence.


Quote:
If we can't think for ourselves, if we're unwilling to question authority,
then we're just putty in the hands of those in power.
But if the citizens are educated and form their own opinions, then those in power work for us. In every country, we should be teaching our children the scientific method and the reasons for a Bill of Rights. --Carl Sagan


Carl Sagan despised conspiracy theories and devoted his life to fighting them. You are quoting him in opposition to his own beliefs, statements, and values.


I have to say... it does not look like a good-faith effort to advance a point to post hundreds upon hundreds of links that allegedly prove one point, while disavowing knowledge or responsibility for other points that can be found there too and not actually engaging with respondents. If your point is "the media is biased and secrecy is bad," that's cool, I'm right with you. But you don't have to scrape out a case for that next to the notion that Al Qaeda does not exist and it was actually the Pope who blew up the WTC. It is the opposite of whatever point you are trying to make.
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#445150 - 08/22/13 06:09 PM Re: THE BIG LIE [Re: SoccerStar]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3046
Loc: O Kanada
you know, i would be more trusting and gullible if i had not had so much personal experience with manipulation of the media.
i have seen too many cover ups and lies make it to "OFFICIAL STORY" status.
i have seen it with my own eyes, over and over again.

the lie becomes the mythological truth of the majority.

in this business of mass media,
it is far too easy to manipulate the masses,
it is surprisingly simple for experts to exploit the trust and ignorance and prejudice of the general public.

we use neuro-linguistic programming, game theory, occult symbolism, shapes, graphic design, colors, psychology, hypnotism, illusion, trickery, etc.
whatever it takes to influence the target mind.

all these tools are being used against us every day.
when a tool is used against me, i consider it a weapon.

i was a member of a group of people that just recently got our candidate successfully elected into the legislative assembly.
we spent thousands of hours shaping the media to our benefit.
the whole thing was run on conspiracy and secrecy.
we had insiders.
we had spies.
it was all about controlling the message.
it was about selling the product.
it was marketing.

inconvenient truths were buried.

when my rapist was arrested...
all of his government connections and his accomplices were left out of the "official story".
he was presented as a lone nut.
i KNOW what really was going on.
i was an eyewitness.
there were over 300 of us.

we were kept out of the news.
our experience has been erased.
our history has been denied and deleted.
when i talk about the Clifford Olson conspiracy,
i am called crazy, even though i was there.
i saw what i saw!
when the "official story" denies or ignores my truth,
i am robbed of my own reality.
i am left doubting my own memories.
but I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED!
Cliff was part of an organized group of pedophiles with connections to the government.
i was literally handed over to cliff by my own government's
youth employment and rehabilitation services, because i was a runaway juvenile delinquent.
now they deny it.
if people just accept the "official story" about Clifford Olson, simply from what the news has told us, they are being lied to.

now they are doing the same thing with the William Pickton pig farm nightmare.
it was organized.
there was a group of people involved.
hundreds of people know what was going on there.
i have spoken to dozens of people who saw what happened.
yet the news, police, government insist he was a lone wolf.
all the witnesses "lack credibility".
street people and sex-trade workers with drug abuse issues.
typical abuse victims.
people like me.

crooked government is behind a lot of child abuse and other evils.
this is not a joke.
i am dead serious.

believe "official" stories at your own peril.

i do not know anything about sandy hook,
but i do know that "crisis actors" exist.
i work in the entertainment business.
you can hire them here:
http://www.iifdata.com/core-competencies/role-player-support/
you can apply to be one here:
http://www.iifdata.com/human-resources/submit-your-resume/

the following comes from http://visionbox.org/

Quote:
Active Shooter Crisis Actors Target Mall Shootings via Visionbox

DENVER, CO, October 31, 2012 — A new group of actors is now available nationwide for active shooter drills and mall shooting full-scale exercises, announced Visionbox, Denver’s leading professional actors studio.

Visionbox Crisis Actors are trained in criminal and victim behavior, and bring intense realism to simulated mass casualty incidents in public places.

The actors’ stage acting experience, ranging from Shakespeare to contemporary American theater, enables them to “stay in character” throughout an exercise, and improvise scenes of extreme stress while strictly following official exercise scenarios.

The actors regularly rehearse scenarios involving the Incident Command System and crisis communications, and appear in interactive training films produced in both 2D and stereoscopic 3D.

Producers Jennifer R____n and John S_____s formed the group to demonstrate emerging security technologies, help first responders visualize life-saving procedures, and assist trainers in delivering superior hands-on crisis response training.

For example, with a large shopping center, the producers review all security camera views and design dramatic scenes specifically for existing camera angles, robotic camera sweeps, and manually-controlled camera moves.

The producers then work with the trainers to create a “prompt book” for the actors so that key scenario developments can be triggered throughout the mall shooting simulation, and caught on tape.

The actors can play the part of the shooters, mall employees, shoppers in the mall, shoppers who continue to arrive at the mall, media reporters and others rushing to the mall, and persons in motor vehicles around the mall.

Visionbox Crisis Actors can also play the role of citizens calling 911 or mall management, or posting comments on social media websites.

Visionbox is a project of the Colorado Nonprofit Development Center. Crisis Actors is a project of the Colorado Safety Task Force established by Colorado State Senator Steve King.

Contact:
Nathan B__k
Amanda B___n
(720) 810-XXXX
-deleted- @visionbox.org
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