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#442004 - 07/24/13 10:12 AM Something my T said
mattheal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 142
Loc: Ohio
Hi guys. Last week my T made a statement and its been bouncing around my head for the last 5 days. I was a very lonely and neglected boy before the abuse started - and he thinks this is a reason it was easy for me to become a victim. And I still believe that I am responsible - even though in my head I know it's not true.

But he said he thinks I feel this way because the abuse was "exciting" and became my "thing", going so far as comparing it to a kid who live and sleeps sport where baseball may be his "thing". I don't like that and spoke up because I did have other things - I skateboarded, played street hockey, read, and loved music.

On my second appointment I mentioned MS and he said he was not familiar. Two weeks later I brought MS up and he mentioned he sounded like he was and had been familiar with the site.

It's weird. I'm also seeing a psyche nurse for meds and sent him a note on this. I also mentioned that someone from here told me he thought I needs to find a tree hugger and not a Frazier Crane. His response sounded like he was pissed - I don't know any "hippie" therapists and you need to talk to your T.

Does any of this sound odd to you?
_________________________
It's okay to find the faith to saunter forward
With no fear of shadows spreading where you stand
And you'll breathe easier just knowing
that the worst is all behind you
And the waves that tossed the raft all night
have set you on dry land
- The Mountain Goats - "Never Quite Free"

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#442014 - 07/24/13 11:48 AM Re: Something my T said [Re: mattheal]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1283
Gosh, Matthew, I can't but wonder if this is a semantics issue more than anything else. I mean, even though my own therapist never mentioned anything like that to me, the fact is that when I was going through it, it kind of was my "thing". Not that I dug it or liked it or even sought it out - but in the sense that it occupied most of my thoughts even when it wasn't happening. And when it was, it occupied most of my senses. It was my thing because it was his thing. And I was 12 and he was 15 and that's just the way it was.

It sort of reminds me of a discussion here on the boards not too long ago in which someone claimed he disowned the phrase "my molester." He wasn't MY molester was his contention - he wasn't "my" anything, as if by denying the semantics of such ownership, we distance ourselves from the whole mess. I suppose that's not right or wrong - it just reflects the process that makes the most sense to him and I respect that. My truth is different. My own path took me in the opposite direction. I had to own it before I could release it. You can't throw a baseball until you first catch it.

We were just wired to respond. Ever notice how there is specifically no punch abuse forum anywhere? There is no slap abuse forum? Yeah - there are generic abuse sites that encompass a wide range of physical abuses like that, but the sexual abuse category stands out by itself. And for good reason. If you punch me in the solar plexus, I'll double over in pain. There is no argument between my mind and my body on my reaction. But with sex, it's different. Your mind says no and your voice says no, but when it starts, your body sometimes says yes. That's the crime of it. It's more than just an intimate trespass. It sets up a civil war within ourselves. For me, I hated what he was doing to me, but my body turned traitor every time. Go through that several times in your childhood and no wonder so many of us can't trust ourselves, no wonder we don't want to know ourselves, no wonder we are disgusted with ourselves on some deep level.

Your "thing"? If you're like me, you had little choice but to make it your thing. It's not your fault if it was. You were a child. This is precisely the step in my therapy that was the hardest. I had to own my reactions to what he did to me instead of running away and denying them. That was necessary to reconcile me with me, to stop the civil war within myself, and to start to become "whole" again.
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#442021 - 07/24/13 12:15 PM Re: Something my T said [Re: mattheal]
concerned_husky Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 585
Matt,

In a nutshell, yes it does sound odd.

I don't have any experience with a T, so please take my two cents with a pinch of salt...

The fact that he wavered about his position regarding his familiarity with MS suggests he is not completely honest with you. And - to suggest that you feel guilty about your abuse because you felt it to be your "thing" and "exciting"...makes me wonder if your T is certified in the first place. And comparing CSA to how a passionate kid would feel about baseball is so mind-bogglingly insane that - and I'm sorry to say this - I actually think your T deserves a good bitch-slap across the face. It makes me really angry that your T would say something like that.

If I can suggest something a bit more positive - maybe the guilt/responsibility you feel at the moment is a way of your present adult self communicating with your inner child. You are indeed responsible for that kid inside you now. But at the time of abuse - and I know you've heard this a million times already - you weren't in a position to defend yourself. You were vulnerable, powerless and helpless...there were supposed to be adults there to look after you, and the responsibility lies with them.
_________________________
Husky

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#442022 - 07/24/13 12:20 PM Re: Something my T said [Re: mattheal]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1554
Matt

Get that thought out of your head and the emotion out of your heart. You were not responsible for what happened--I fought that thought and feelings forever and finally I am realizing and accepting--I was a child and he manipulated and controlled me. Until I accepted it was not my fault, I was letting him control me.

Do you feel safe and comfortable with your T? If not, it may not be the right fit.

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#442025 - 07/24/13 12:30 PM Re: Something my T said [Re: mattheal]
Poorsoft Offline


Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 163
Tell him what you told us.

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#442027 - 07/24/13 12:40 PM Re: Something my T said [Re: mattheal]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3319
Loc: back in the USA
Originally Posted By: mattheal
And I still believe that I am responsible - even though in my head I know it's not true.

yup - i thought that too - and probly 99% of the rest of us. it takes a while - but i'm over it now. keep telling yourself and some day you'll believe it.

Originally Posted By: mattheal
But he said he thinks I feel this way because the abuse was "exciting" and became my "thing", going so far as comparing it to a kid who live and sleeps sport where baseball may be his "thing".

not to justify it - if he meant what you seem to think he meant - but i have another possible interpretation. when i got into therapy i was scared of losing my "self" because the abuse victim was so much a part of my self-defined identity that i didn't know if i would be able to know and like a new "self" that defined me differently. that image had become my "thing" - i felt different and special because of my secret. i am mostly over that now, too. i accept it as part of who i am but not the main thing. i am more than that. maybe that is what the T meant?

Originally Posted By: mattheal
On my second appointment I mentioned MS and he said he was not familiar. Two weeks later I brought MS up and he mentioned he sounded like he was and had been familiar with the site.

maybe he had looked it up in between?

not trying to make you doubt your own instincts - but don't want you to be overly paranoid either.

lee
_________________________
We are often troubled, but not crushed;
sometimes in doubt, but never in despair;
there are many enemies, but we are never without a friend;
and though badly hurt at times, we are not destroyed.
- Paul, II Cor 4:8-9

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#442030 - 07/24/13 01:49 PM Re: Something my T said [Re: traveler]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1283
Originally Posted By: Lee
when i got into therapy i was scared of losing my "self" because the abuse victim was so much a part of my self-defined identity that i didn't know if i would be able to know and like a new "self" that defined me differently. that image had become my "thing" - i felt different and special because of my secret.

Resonance! My world became quickly black and white with the issue of sex abuse. There were just those on top and those on the bottom (I didn't call them abusers or victims back then). Watching him molest others left a huge negative impression on me. It was so repulsive and probably was an accelerant in pushing me to embrace my own victimhood at some level. It was actually easier to have him molest me than watch him molest the others - especially my little sister. So much for the vampire syndrome in my case - I never could be HIM to anyone else - I think I'd retch.

Did not mean to get off-topic on Matt's concerns, but Lee makes an important point.
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#442044 - 07/24/13 05:26 PM ! [Re: mattheal]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
!


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (02/28/14 09:04 PM)

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#442054 - 07/24/13 06:37 PM Re: Something my T said [Re: mattheal]
Publius Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 396
Loc: OH
While it is certainly true some children are more at risk than others due to socio-economic and cultural conditions I am of the opinion every child is technically "easily made into a victim." All children lack the physical stature, intellectual capacity, and emotional experience to either fight the abuse or its after effects. In short, none of us survivors really had a chance or a choice in the matter. Personally, I struggle with this as well. I can sit here and explain to anyone why their abuse wasn't his/her fault but as far as convincing myself, at least emotionally, that's been more difficult than the intellectual aspect.

As far as your therapist is concerned if you are comfortable being honest with him go ahead and follow Poorsoft's advice of telling him. If his reaction is negative then maybe it is time to switch therapists because any CSA therapist worth his/her salt knows damn well those sorts of thoughts are not only normal but to be expected and encouraged as part of the healing process : P
_________________________
"Life is like this dark tunnel. You may not always see the light at the end of the tunnel, but if you keep moving, you will come to a better place." ~ General Iroh

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#442090 - 07/25/13 01:54 AM Re: Something my T said [Re: mattheal]
mattheal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 142
Loc: Ohio
I appreciate everyone's posts. I'm thinking the reason it has been bouncing around my brain is because there is some truth to it. I believe I am moving the phrase "the truth hurts" from the know column to the understand column. Thank you!
_________________________
It's okay to find the faith to saunter forward
With no fear of shadows spreading where you stand
And you'll breathe easier just knowing
that the worst is all behind you
And the waves that tossed the raft all night
have set you on dry land
- The Mountain Goats - "Never Quite Free"

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#442096 - 07/25/13 04:11 AM Re: Something my T said [Re: mattheal]
Jacob S Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 592
Originally Posted By: mattheal

But he said he thinks I feel this way because the abuse was "exciting" and became my "thing",


I'm glad you are able to work through this and take the good and leave the bad. If anyone said this to me, I would punch them first and ask questions later. I'm not joking either, I seriously think I would hit someone who said this to me. But we are different people and have had different experiences, so I'm not recommending that as a general course of action (of course).


Edited by Jacob S (07/25/13 04:13 AM)
_________________________
Like a spent gladiator
crawling in the colosseum dust
who can count on his remaining limbs
all the people he can trust.
Like the one who stands behind him
cheering him on
Estatic when he stands defiant,
wild with abandon when he's gone

just stay alive.
do whatever you need to.
you are worth it.

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#442139 - 07/25/13 01:37 PM Re: Something my T said [Re: mattheal]
Rich1967 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 270
Loc: PA
Matt,

Getting past the truth that I liked the feel of the sex and that i encouraged the encounters because it made me feel that I was not as worthless as I thought I was was the hardest part of my recovery. I still look back on that part with disgust sometimes, but know intellectually he held all the cards. I had know chance.

Good luck.
_________________________
Rich

"Me too" - I don't think I will ever get tired of saying or hearing these two words.

My Story:
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=441625#Post441625

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#442183 - 07/25/13 10:28 PM Re: Something my T said [Re: mattheal]
ThisMan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/13
Posts: 767
Loc: upper south
"...And I still believe that I am responsible - even though in my head I know it's not true..."

Acknowledging that it's not true is a tremendous step in moving the thought from your head into your heart. And I heard the same remark. It simply isn't true for me, nor for you, nor for any of us.

"because the abuse was "exciting" and became my "thing", going so far as comparing it to a kid who live and sleeps sport where baseball may be his "thing". I don't like that and spoke up because I did have other things..."

On this, I will speak from my experiences with the abuse. I don't remember one instance in which the abuse was "exciting" or my "thing". As far as the abuse- or the sex, which is the abuse- is concerned, it wasn't exciting. It wasn't my "thing". I wasn't even allowed to get-off. For FOUR years as a teen, I never once got off while I was tending to the sex for mr. perp. Not once. I enjoyed the attention, I suppose. But I was nothing more than an unpaid, ungratified, underaged whore for a grown man whose "thing" was to get off. My T mentioned something a few weeks ago about how children also enjoy the sex of abuse- at least according to some scholars. But I think we are perverting the abuse even more so, when we assume that there is an enjoyment for a kid based on the sex. And I know that is an area of contention. ... And this is only based on my own experiences and thoughts.

..."His response sounded like he was pissed -....
Does any of this sound odd to you?..."

I wouldn't give much thought to his sounding upset. If it persists, you will know he has some issues he needs to work on. And that its time to find someone grounded enough to help you with what you need. And just so you know, I challenge my T at least once during every session. This past week, after three rapids "...and what do you think of that..."..... I just stopped talking, looked at him, and said, "you need to stop that now." He turned red, apologized, and became "clinically" human to me again. I say, keep him on his toes and help him rise to your expectations in the sessions. (... I would love a tree hugger therapist!)

As far as sounding "odd". Actually, Matt, its not all that different from the lady T I was with for about 6 months. When she arrived at #3 of the unforgettable remarks she made, I left. I can only say again, I wish I had left after the #1 remark.
_________________________
For now we see through a glass, darkly.



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#442229 - 07/26/13 11:07 AM Re: Something my T said [Re: Rich1967]
Jacob S Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 592
Originally Posted By: Rich1967
Matt,

Getting past the truth that I liked the feel of the sex and that i encouraged the encounters because it made me feel that I was not as worthless as I thought I was was the hardest part of my recovery. I still look back on that part with disgust sometimes, but know intellectually he held all the cards. I had know chance.

Good luck.


Its tough for me to say but that rings true with me. I didn't ever encourage the encounters but later in my teens I did often wonder if guys saw me in that way and would sometimes wish they'd make a move. But I guess to me someone saying something became your "thing" usually means an expression of who you are and your natural talents. as a worthwhile human. This wasn't that for any of us no matter how we felt at the time.
_________________________
Like a spent gladiator
crawling in the colosseum dust
who can count on his remaining limbs
all the people he can trust.
Like the one who stands behind him
cheering him on
Estatic when he stands defiant,
wild with abandon when he's gone

just stay alive.
do whatever you need to.
you are worth it.

Top
#442233 - 07/26/13 11:49 AM Re: Something my T said [Re: Jacob S]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1283
Originally Posted By: Jacob S
Its tough for me to say but that rings true with me. I didn't ever encourage the encounters but later in my teens I did often wonder if guys saw me in that way and would sometimes wish they'd make a move.

So true with me as well. My first year at college, I was walking across campus with my roommate and he started laughing for no apparent reason. I asked him what was so funny and he said, "That dude that just walked by us - he was checking out your butt!"

There are moments in our lives - simple little snippets of time - that just become freeze frame memories. Stupid little moments we don't realize at the time they happen, but that I suppose stay with us to the grave. I think my whole life took a pivot at that moment - a kind of resignation, like there was just no escape. My abuser was back home - but he was everywhere - they were all over the place. At that point, I just decided to surrender to it all. So I guess I didn't have to wonder if other guys saw me that way. I couldn't interpret a simple admiring glance as anything more than a prelude to the same games my abuser played. Isn't that sad? And he trained me so well - I would "wish they'd make a move" because that is what I learned to expect, and that is what I learned to accommodate.

Originally Posted By: Jacob
But I guess to me someone saying something became your "thing" usually means an expression of who you are and your natural talents. as a worthwhile human. This wasn't that for any of us no matter how we felt at the time.

I could not have put it better.
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#442236 - 07/26/13 12:23 PM Re: Something my T said [Re: mattheal]
Rich1967 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 270
Loc: PA
I agree with Jacob and Erik as well. I always assume the best in others when I can so I hope Matt's T meant the best for him.

Matt - if you find out he didn't or you can't relate to him - get a knew T.
_________________________
Rich

"Me too" - I don't think I will ever get tired of saying or hearing these two words.

My Story:
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=441625#Post441625

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#442239 - 07/26/13 01:08 PM Re: Something my T said [Re: mattheal]
bodyguard8367 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/27/14 06:23 PM)

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