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#44159 - 06/24/03 11:25 AM Re: Trapped
Tom S. Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 161
Loc: Nashville, Tn
quote: "I do not agree with that old hag!"

Marc: Cute, but I wonder what she and Bass have to say about us! The text is good, and far better than nothing at all, and I feel like should be used in group settings. Women are able to do this, because they are recognized as being victims, but men like the fellow who started this message have to go it alone and be dependant on a faceless computer message board. The hardest part of the text is trying to make a buddy list and phone #'s of people who actually give a damn to call when in crisis.
I don't know these gals either, so I can't argue the hag thing, but I can't figure out why there is not a man smart enough to write something like this?

quote:"I believe shortcuts in time can be made through 'proper' therapy technique (I'm watching you Tom S, ya do have some very valid points but not all therapists are the same. ;\) ) However exact standards are difficult to measure."

Marc; I am truly surprised to find someone not asleep at the wheel and actually paying atttention! I know I got the attention of another member 'Sleepy from Arizona' the other day, and it made my week to see I have actually made somebody in the profession self examine and at least elicit a response, regardless of how ridicoulous it might be.
Now run these numbers through your head: 0 - 47 x 2 = 94. [is that how it works, or is it even longer] I should live so long, let alone recieve ANY sort of safe constructive therapy or counsleing that does not victimize me further. I am angry as h-l because I have premiums paid up on the best health care insurance in the state of Tn., not Medicaid or Tn Care, but BC/BS and I can not recieve counseling let alone any sort of therapy or one damn thing, because the profession has gouged the insurance carriers at the rate of $90 to $125 per 45 min. hr. for too many years and now they refuse to pay them on their own in house referrals and recommendations. And what title 6 programs left are a sham, full of letchers and abusers.
The present PhD counselor I have seen was assigned to me on a 4 session EAP contract type referral, and agreed to bill the carrier, and continue to see me. That was 7 mo ago, and he has yet to be paid one damn dime! And ethically, if I walk in and offer any money to him, it leaves him unable to bill, and liable. He cannot refuse to see me or dump me, but there have been times when he conviently had emergencies or soemone else unexpectedly show up on my appointment time which has not changed since I started and get confused, leaving me sitting in the waiting room never seen. And this has occured once four weeks in succession. But I remain in charge, and I live to see their frustration!
I wouldn't mind the opportunity to choose a trained and dedicated person vested in doing what they are sworn to do, like some of you guys here, but all I get is a bunch of d-a's who ask me a 'reduced rate of $95', and expect me to continue to pay my premiums! I hope they have some means other than the mental health profession to support themselves with in the near future, because they are going to be like the legal ambulance chasing profession and be unable to find enough people with money to keep their life style up with.
One last thing, is there a website where women as well as men survivors go to write? I would like a female perspective for a change.
Now for my quote: 'In this time of economic uncertainty, it's easy to see who is dedicated to providing health care, and who is chasing bucks.'
Have a nice day, and sincerely, thanx for listening Marc. Tom S.

_________________________
' None are so enslaved as those falsely led to believe they are actually free '

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#44160 - 06/24/03 01:48 PM Re: Trapped
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Quote:
Over the years, I've come to realize that healing is, in fact, a process that takes a lifetime. As survivors, we need to settle in for the long haul. It's a process that continues for the rest of our lives.
Agreed, but it doesn't just apply to healing from SA. There are any number of things that we and that all human beings have to heal, or recover, from. My preference is to say that recovery is a process that takes a lifetime. A process of recovery from SA or anything
else that has disrupted our being our true selves;
a process of recovery to that true self. Which does indeed involve a lifetime, but if we focus on the to that's not such a bad thing IMHO.

Quote:
Marc: Cute, but I wonder what she and Bass have to say about us! The text is good, and far better than nothing at all, and I feel like should be used in group settings. Women are able to do this, because they are recognized as being victims, but men like the fellow who started this message have to go it alone and be dependant on a faceless computer message board. The hardest part of the text is trying to make a buddy list and phone #'s of people who actually give a damn to call when in crisis.
Tom, what you're saying speaks to what we're trying to change here at MS.

Quote:
I don't know these gals either, so I can't argue the hag thing, but I can't figure out why there is not a man smart enough to write something like this?
Maybe there is. Check out the MS bookstore for stuff like this:

The Wounded Heart & The Wounded Heart Workbook by Dan Allender

Victims No Longer and Leaping Upon the Mountains by Mike Lew

Abused Boys by Mic Hunter

Speaking Our Truth by Neil King & Thomas Moore

Male Survivors by Timothy L. Sanders

Betrayed As Boys by Richard Gartner

That's just for starters...

Quote:
One last thing, is there a website where women as well as men survivors go to write? I would like a female perspective for a change.
Tom, there are myriads of survivor sites that are for both women & men. However from what I've seen most of them end up having only or almost only women becuz they get into too much man-bashing. Some don't even allow men.

If I were going to recommend one, it would be Kristen's Place at pub27.ezboard.com/bnewhopehealinginstitutesupportforum

Vic

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#44161 - 06/24/03 11:27 PM Re: Trapped
Tom S. Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 161
Loc: Nashville, Tn
Thanx Vic, but I believe I better pass on Kristen. Don't know her either. I'll surf first chance I get.
Now about the books; is there a text and workbook like Courage To Heal designed soley for men? I have a pretty limited budget.
Thanx Tom S.

_________________________
' None are so enslaved as those falsely led to believe they are actually free '

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#44162 - 06/25/03 12:01 AM Re: Trapped
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Tom

A workbook designed solely for male survivors? The only one I can find offhand is "Male Survivors: 12-Step Recovery Program for Survivors of Childhood Sexual Abuse" by Timothy L. Sanders. I have it and have used it; great if you can work with the 12 steps. You can get it thru the MS bookstore at Amazon, used, for as low as $3.50 as of right now.

BTW happy surfing!

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#44163 - 06/25/03 09:42 AM Re: Trapped
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Tom,

It's not formatted as a workbook with places to write, but every section in Mic Hunter's book has a set of questions to ask yourself. If you kept your answers in a tablet, it'd almost be "workbook-ish."

And "The Courage to Heal" seems really good to me. I understand that there was a lack of material for guys, and the stuff written for women had a lot of negative portrayals of men at one time. But the latest edition of the workbook (the version I have) is written for both men and women. In the introduction is the story of Mike Lew talking with a man who "was afraid to buy the book (original 'Courage to Heal,' not the workbook) because it said, 'For Women Survivors...' on the cover." Mike Lew regularly advises men, "Change the pronouns. Women have been doing it for decades."

If you get a chance to look at the books in a library, you might be able to decide better which you want for yourself. But don't discount some of the recent stuff written for both men and women. I've heard parts of my life story in women's words at SIA meetings. We're more alike than different, IMPE.

Thanks,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#44164 - 06/25/03 10:05 AM Re: Trapped
jwh Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 98
Loc: dallas, tx
Mike Lew's "Victims No More" has been extremely helpful to me, and I would say that "The Courage to Heal" has been just as helpful--they go together very well. In the latest edition of "The Courage to Heal" Ellen Bass mentions in her intro that, if she and Laura could change the original book, they would have made the book for male survivors as well. Unfortunately, in the late 70s, most male survivors did not feel comfortable enough to admit that they were sexually abused. Seriously, though, one can read most of "The Courage to Heal" and simply substitute "man" for "woman."

Jeff

_________________________
"I've been waiting for a guide to come and take me by the hand... Could these sensations make me feel the pleasures of a normal man?"--Ian Curtis, Joy Division

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#44165 - 06/25/03 05:20 PM Re: Trapped
Tom S. Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 161
Loc: Nashville, Tn
_____________________________________
But don't discount some of the recent stuff written for both men and women. I've heard parts of my life story in women's words at SIA meetings. We're more alike than different, IMPE.
Thanks,
Joe [/QB][/QUOTE
_____________________________________

I am not going to disagree with your logic Joe, but why is it I can't go to a SIA meeting or be seen by someone who will recognize me as a survivor like women or any other citizen?
Why do people embrace an abused woman at church who discloses something like incest to justify hysterical neurotic behavior, while I am shunned and people run home to see if my name appears on the Registry of Sex Offenders lists?
And something that really bothered me was; Why does the disclaimer sign posted above the secretaries window at the Rape and Sexual Abuse Center at 21 Lindsy ave. in Nashville, Tenn. clearly state that because it is a United Way Service and recieves state and federal funding, that " No one can be discriminated upon or denied services based on Age, Race, or Religous affiliation", but no where on that sign or in any of the printed material I ever saw does it mention one damn thing about Gender?
As a male, why can't I expect services like everyone else?

I enjoy the chat here, but you guys live not only in another state, but another world.
I denied any sexual abuse to a social worker once, and left that question unanswered on her questionaire, just for these same reasons, and I needed her service.
Here in Tennesee no one, and let me reiterate; not one single damn person I have met has constructively addressed the fact that I even could possibly have had illicit sexual contact with an adult as a minor child. I am a male; and as close as any recognition of abuse that has come is that I need to learn to put things in perspective and look at underage sex as the worldly learning experience I have been blessed with, and use it constructively to engage in manly hetero sex, and keep my feelings and emotions in check, and learn how to brag about having sex as a kid execpt anywhere around church.
I wish just one of you would spend a week here just trying to get recognition, let alone any form of services.
SIA group!@#$%^&*
All due respects Joe, and I don't want to appear angry at you or Victor or anyone else here, but you HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING. I'm tired of self therapy and substituting He for She.
I'm too worn out for even my quote.
Tom S.

_________________________
' None are so enslaved as those falsely led to believe they are actually free '

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#44166 - 06/25/03 05:46 PM Re: Trapped
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Quote:
I am not going to disagree with your logic Joe, but why is it I can't go to a SIA meeting or be seen by someone who will recognize me as a survivor like women or any other citizen?
Tom,

I don't know if you would find a meeting close to your home. I go 46 miles, one way, to get to the one meeting anywhere near me.

But this week it was 2 guys and one woman. I know there are at least two other guys besides the two of us that were there this week.

There are single-sex groups, but women I've met at the group I attend do recognize that I was injured when I was abused, and that I need to work, with help from them and others, to get better.

Quote:
As a male, why can't I expect services like everyone else?
Because we male survivors haven't done enough to educate the rest of the world, and we haven't done enough to demand our right to heal.

Quote:
I wish just one of you would spend a week here just trying to get recognition, let alone any form of services.
It took me weeks of surfing and screwing up my courage to contact SIA, then another week to get to the first meeting. Total of about 2 months from the time I started surfing for a sex abuse survivors' self help group.

I haven't even tried to get any services through the public health system. Too open for me right now. Too unprotected. I'm just plain scared to try.

Quote:
SIA group!@#$%^&*

All due respects Joe, and I don't want to appear angry at you or Victor or anyone else here, but you HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING. I'm tired of self therapy and substituting He for She.
I'm trying to get by, as best as I can, with what's available to me, and what I can bring myself to ask for.

Tom, you do sound angry. And you should be. Being abused is wrong. Being denied help is wrong. I don't think anyone here would disagree with those statements.

We, the other male survivors who come here, can listen (ok, read) and write back, or go to chat, etc. We can offer hope and prayers. We can share experience (what works, what doesn't), strength (disclosure stories, prevention stories), and hope (inspiring and uplifting celebrations of the good things in our lives).

I hope you can mix and match the stuff that is available, in whatever formats and venues, to come up with something to make you feel like you're getting some of help you want and need. For myself, I'll be here "for a while longer" and I'm glad to try to help, as best as I can.

Thanks,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#44167 - 06/25/03 08:22 PM Re: Trapped
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Tom,

Sure you're angry. Hey I'm angry. SA makes me angry. The sexual stereotyping that men are always victimizers & women are always victims makes me angry. The lack of resources & support for men makes me angry. http://www.nonstick.com/sounds/Marvin_The_Martian/ltmm_019.wav http://www.nonstick.com/wpics/marvin.jpg

Our anger can motivate us to action, become constructive anger. We can build our own support,
name our abuse, tell people, make them listen.

Hey that's what women had to do not too many years ago. If they did it so can we.

Tom, hang in there with us ok. This is the kind of stuff we're trying to do here at MS. And MS is the men here, you & I, all of us.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#44168 - 06/26/03 10:27 AM Re: Trapped
Tom S. Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 161
Loc: Nashville, Tn
Thanx for the uplifting words boys, but you are so far off trail you aren't even in the hunt.
I don't know if you have read anything I have written about the uphill treadmill I have been on 'REACHING OUT FOR HELP', but if you had, you might see that there is NOTHING avaiable. Why the hell do you think I keep asking?
I went the RASC route and was blessed with 11 mo. of their 'therapy' until the liberated alternate lifestyle females there told me that they could not provide anything further for me, and I could get services elsewhere, because; "society accecpts me better because you are a male". This from a public funded program none the less. I was bumped because there were younger females on a waiting list.
Then I was told about a group close to 50 mi away, and went for an interview twice to become a member. After 8 weeks the gal who ran the group finally came beck and I got to attend once [1], until they moved the time of the group ahead 1 hour to accomadate her Dr. appointments. The other 3 guys were phoned and informed, but because I lived outside the area code, they did not let me know, and I arrived what I thought was on time the second week only to meet them as they were leaving.
Do I need to rewrite the insurance story?
And this is as good as your profession gets around here. It's refreshing to see you boys so happy with what you do, but I think I have had enough of this dogshit.
So long.
Tom S.

_________________________
' None are so enslaved as those falsely led to believe they are actually free '

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