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#440872 - 07/14/13 03:53 PM the gospels in history
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: O Kanada
University Lecture about New Testament Manuscripts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-1hdqNDQ9E

Bart D. Ehrman is an American New Testament scholar, currently the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

'Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why' is a book by Bart D. Ehrman, a New Testament scholar at University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. The book introduces lay readers to the field of textual criticism of the Bible. Ehrman discusses a number of textual variants that resulted from intentional or accidental manuscript changes during the scriptorium era. This book made it to the New York Times Best Seller list.
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#440885 - 07/14/13 05:42 PM Re: the gospels in history [Re: victor-victim]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 856
Loc: Kc,Mo
If God can handle making ALL of this I am sure what he wanted in the bible would be and is in the bible. It is all fine and dandy for all the other books that have been translated and preserved through time as historians have always done through the centuries , But o no not the bible it is not reliable but the others are
Come on please
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#440898 - 07/14/13 08:52 PM Re: the gospels in history [Re: nltsaved]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: O Kanada
i did some research on what he said.

here is the first thing i have looked into.

the translation from greek by John Mill,
Novum Testamentum Graecum,
cum lectionibus variantibus MSS (Oxford 1707)

http://www.csntm.org/printedbook/viewbook/JohnMillNovumTestamentum1707

which led me to here:
An introduction to the critical study and knowledge of the Holy Scriptures (1828)
Volume 1
http://archive.org/details/introductiont01horn
http://archive.org/download/introductiont01horn/introductiont01horn.pdf

Volume 2
http://archive.org/details/introductiontho02horn
http://archive.org/download/introductiontho02horn/introductiontho02horn.pdf

which led me to the Textus Receptus
http://dbwf.net/images/TRStephanus.pdf
http://archive.org/details/TextusReceptusscrivener1860
http://archive.org/download/TextusReceptusscrivener1860/TextusReceptus-StephensScrivener1860.pdf
http://bitflow.dyndns.org/greek/Bible/Greek-New_Testament_Scrivener_Textus_Receptus_1894.txt

lots of reading to do now smile

Textual criticism and the Textus Receptus

"John Mill (1645–1707), collated textual variants from 82 Greek manuscripts. In his Novum Testamentum Graecum, cum lectionibus variantibus MSS (Oxford 1707) he reprinted the unchanged text of the Editio Regia, but in the index he enumerated 30,000 textual variants.[11]
Shortly after Mill published his edition, Daniel Whitby (1638–1725), attacked his work. He claimed that the autographs of the New Testament were identical to the Textus Receptus, and that the text had never been corrupted. He believed the text of the Holy Scripture was endangered by the 30,000 variants in Mill's edition. Whitby claimed that every part of the New Testament should be defended against these variants.[12]
Johann Albrecht Bengel (1687–1752), in 1725 edited Prodromus Novi Testamenti Graeci Rectè Cautèque Adornandi, in 1734 edited Novum Testamentum Graecum. Bengel divided manuscripts into families and subfamilies. He favoured the principle of lectio difficilior potior ("the more difficult reading is the stronger").
Johann Jakob Wettstein. His Apparatus was fuller than of any previous editor. He introduced the practice of indicating the ancient manuscripts by capital Roman letters and the later manuscripts by Arabic numerals. He published in Basel Prolegomena ad Novi Testamenti Graeci (1731).
J. J. Griesbach (1745–1812) combined the principles of Bengel and Wettstein. He enlarged the Apparatus by considering more citations from the Fathers, and various versions, such as the Gothic, the Armenian, and the Philoxenian. Griesbach distinguished a Western, an Alexandrian, and a Byzantine Recension.[13] Christian Frederick Matthaei (1744–1811) was a Griesbach opponent.
Karl Lachmann (1793–1851), was the first who broke with the Textus Receptus. His object was to restore the text to the form in which it had been read in the ancient Church about A.D. 380. He used the oldest known Greek and Latin manuscripts. Tischendorf's Editio Octava Critica Maior based on Codex Sinaiticus.
Westcott and Hort, published The New Testament in the Original Greek in 1881, in which they rejected Textus Receptus. The text is based mainly on Codex Vaticanus in the Gospels.[14]
The majority of textual critical scholars since the late 19th Century, have adopted an eclectic approach to the Greek New Testament; with the most weight given to the earliest extant manuscripts which tend mainly to be Alexandrian in character; the resulting eclectic Greek text departing from the Textus Receptus in around 6,000 readings. A significant minority of textual scholars, however, maintain the priority of the Byzantine text-type; and consequently prefer the "Majority Text". No school of textual criticism now continues to defend the priority of the Textus Receptus; although this position does still find adherents amongst the King-James-Only Movement, and other Protestant groups opposed to the discipline of text criticism—as applied to scripture.
"
http://www.bible-researcher.com/kutilek1.html
http://textus-receptus.com/wiki/Textus_Receptus
http://www.power4deliverance.org/books/Textus%20Receptus%20scan.pdf
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#440901 - 07/14/13 09:57 PM Re: the gospels in history [Re: victor-victim]
BuffaloCO Offline


Registered: 07/14/12
Posts: 441
Loc: USA
So, what exactly is the point?
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#440909 - 07/15/13 01:03 AM Re: the gospels in history [Re: victor-victim]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: O Kanada
becoming more informed.
getting the details.
checking the facts.
doing the research.
looking at sources.
seeking the knowledge.
digging for wisdom.
enlightenment?
curiousity?
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#440930 - 07/15/13 09:32 AM Re: the gospels in history [Re: victor-victim]
BuffaloCO Offline


Registered: 07/14/12
Posts: 441
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: victor-victim
becoming more informed.
getting the details.
checking the facts.
doing the research.
looking at sources.
seeking the knowledge.
digging for wisdom.
enlightenment?
curiousity?


Personally, I come here to find healing from 15+ years of abuse. My faith helps a lot in that regard. I don't come here to get slammed as being uninformed, unenlightened, unwise, uneducated, etc. about being a believer.
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#440956 - 07/15/13 04:36 PM Re: the gospels in history [Re: victor-victim]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: O Kanada
who is slamming you?
i am talking about myself.

as a believer, i want access to the most accurate historical and spiritual information i can find.
as a survivor, i am very interested in the story of the bible.
it is a very important book in my life.
therefore, i believe, exploring the various versions of the gospels and understanding how the scriptures originated is essential to my faith.
i have no less then 10 different bibles in my library, and no two are the same.
somewhere between all those translations is the wisdom.

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#440958 - 07/15/13 04:55 PM Re: the gospels in history [Re: victor-victim]
BuffaloCO Offline


Registered: 07/14/12
Posts: 441
Loc: USA
Ok I can accept that. It came across as: this is what others need to do. So I'm sorry I misread that.

The guy in the video is clearly a non-believer, and takes a very condescending approach to believers. That much I got very clearly and for me anyway, I can't take direction from someone about faith who thinks it's a joke to begin with.
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“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.” - Plato

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#440961 - 07/15/13 05:34 PM Re: the gospels in history [Re: victor-victim]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: O Kanada

bart ehrman's facts are solid.
they stand up to study and scrutiny.
that is the bottom line.
i have no idea whether he is a believer, but he knows what he is talking about.
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#440964 - 07/15/13 05:56 PM Re: the gospels in history [Re: victor-victim]
BuffaloCO Offline


Registered: 07/14/12
Posts: 441
Loc: USA
Thank you for clarifying.
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