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#440443 - 07/09/13 09:24 AM projections?
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3610
Loc: South-East Europe
I've attended recently workshop about Jungs' analytical psychology concept and to be honest I never read his works nor I knew something about it.
During the workshop there were many interesting moments (some people brought stories about some of their dreams and made short analysis with therapist in front of all of us). Some concepts of Jung's psychology for me sounded as very progressive concepts and some left me in doubts. Anyway it was really interesting to listen all that. I heard story there (I can't remember exact context) about falling in love and actually when there is a lot of "love" emotions it could be that we have fallen in love into actually our own projections (even female projections of our personality) and not to real person that is near us and with whom we should be in love. Off course this all was mentioned in hypothetical manner.
That all left me in doubts about many ordinary situations when we are communicating and reacting let say intensively. I'm somehow seeing that people (including myself) are reacting many times to some our internal processes that has nothing to do with people with whom we are talking. Something similar to concept of triggers to traumatic situations. It buzzes me really and I wonder how often contact between two people is real and how often is some virtual projecting relationship.
One aspect of that story for me is connected to any form of impersonal way of communication as internet is for example.
So we are able to become even good friends in short time with person that we actually don't know and somehow it is slippery terrain.
I'm writing this as sometimes some intensive emotions, feelings of being connected and similar could emerge and with time it could be shown that some real substance is missing, to be exact there wasn't any in first place. I'm sure many of us have had similar experiences in real or virtual world.
So I wonder if there is some way to recognize when we are projecting or losing authentic contact to ourselves as well as to people around us and start seeing "projections" and communicating with them. I mean brain is machine made for erasing borders between reality and imagination, plasticity is it's main trait and nothing is sure, constant change is only what is continuous. So how to stay stable and keep perspective on ourselves and others around us is question that is repeating?
Our internal world is full with insecurities and many unknown internal drives that are easily escaping overview of our conciseness so it is more than easy to get lost.
I don't have any answer, just needed to ramble, lol.

Pero


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My story

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#440456 - 07/09/13 12:44 PM Re: projections? [Re: peroperic2009]
concerned_husky Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 589
I think, I'm about to ramble too smile

Originally Posted By: peroperic2009
So I wonder if there is some way to recognize when we are projecting or losing authentic contact to ourselves as well as to people around us and start seeing "projections" and communicating with them.


Your question really made me think today. I don't think there is an easy answer/solution to this. It seems at the basic level, when we first meet someone, or when we're getting to know someone, we must deal with 'scripts' - scripts that guide as about how particular people behave, think, and feel - to ease the tensions sometimes it might be necessary to project to get the ball rolling. Scripts, I think, are very much akin to projections. Perhaps we even get along only with people who 'fit' our projections of what a good friend entails. In that respect, I'd say 'idealizations' are a form of projection as well. I don't know. I guess, then - my two cents - that the best way of dealing with this is to always be curious, ask questions about the person who you are talking to so you can constantly re-evaluate and gain new insights/information about them. That way they will always be an autonomous individual (as we all are) and we can take in their intricacies without projecting.
_________________________
Husky

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#440461 - 07/09/13 01:48 PM Re: projections? [Re: concerned_husky]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1408
Loc: California
This is indeed a great question, and a testament to how far you have come in recovery.

I discovered a way of looking at it; I imagined my abuse and its affect on how I see the world as kind of a Matrix - yes - like the movie. The "andersons" and other people in my matrix are mostly projections of my own fears; I make an enormous amount of assumptions (out of trying to create security), and as a result, have grown up in a very dark and fearsome world.

The longer I travel along this path of recovery from CSA, the more I'm beginning to see how much I project onto others. And that other people are far more complex and changing than I imagined them to be. My making assumptions (projections) of others behaviors precluded me from taking risks I otherwise could have taken. It made for a very small world.

The scripts, as husky calls them, are written in our childhood by the decisions and beliefs we adopt in order to survive a horrifying world. We needed them to survive, but now that we're grown men, need so desperately to cast them aside so that we can see what we could not see growing up.

That's my ramble! Thank you for this thread.

Originally Posted By: concerned_husky
I think, I'm about to ramble too smile

Originally Posted By: peroperic2009
So I wonder if there is some way to recognize when we are projecting or losing authentic contact to ourselves as well as to people around us and start seeing "projections" and communicating with them.


Your question really made me think today. I don't think there is an easy answer/solution to this. It seems at the basic level, when we first meet someone, or when we're getting to know someone, we must deal with 'scripts' - scripts that guide as about how particular people behave, think, and feel - to ease the tensions sometimes it might be necessary to project to get the ball rolling. Scripts, I think, are very much akin to projections. Perhaps we even get along only with people who 'fit' our projections of what a good friend entails. In that respect, I'd say 'idealizations' are a form of projection as well. I don't know. I guess, then - my two cents - that the best way of dealing with this is to always be curious, ask questions about the person who you are talking to so you can constantly re-evaluate and gain new insights/information about them. That way they will always be an autonomous individual (as we all are) and we can take in their intricacies without projecting.
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

Loving Kindness Meditation will dramatically improve your spirits; give it a try for just 3 days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz7cpV7ERsM

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#440515 - 07/09/13 10:14 PM Re: projections? [Re: peroperic2009]
GoldStone Offline


Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 220
Loc: Far East
There's a free online course going on now called "the fiction of relationship".

Search coursera.

Its a hot topic.


Edited by GoldStone (07/09/13 10:14 PM)

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#440536 - 07/10/13 07:20 AM Re: projections? [Re: peroperic2009]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2016
Loc: durham, north england
While I am generally speaking much more a fan of Jung than Freud (that man was just disturbed!), he still falls into one of the basic traps of psycho analysis, that is, assuming that his theory has a priviliged access to another person's dreams or behaviour and automatically knows more than the person themselves.

This isn't to say that ideas like projection are always wrong, only that I'd myself be very careful not to stretch given experiences onto a mould they don't fit just because a particular psychological theory looks interesting, (again, see Freud).

For example, I can certainly think of cases I've found where I believed a person to have some characteristic that they didn't, or I idealised a person because of their relation to me, especially true of low self isteme "this person must be wonderful to be my friend" however I do! believe there is such a thing as true an accurate knolidge of another person, or at least as true and accurate as any knolidge can be, and ultimately the only people in a position to say whether a person is acquiring that knolidge are not psycho analytic specialists, but people themselves.

This is similar to what Mike Loo said (at least in the conference I went to, and likely in his book as well), where so many therapists say "you need to work on your anger" or "your fear" or whatever other emotion that particular therapists i is more comfortable with dealing with than what emotions you actually do have.

Getting back to projections, another point is that there are cases where the complete opposite! is true, where others perceive something about a person that the person themselves is unaware of, ---- or rather doesn't wish to be aware of. This has certainly happened to me enough times on this site, and I can think of a perfect example of a friend of mine.

He maintains an image and opinions of being very anarchical, nihilistic and synical of everything, frequently discussing kafka, and nietzsche and the general doom gloom ans superficiality of life in general, and popular culture and life style in particular. Yet, at the core he has an element of decency and a genuine ability to empathise with others, even though he denies this utterly, yet, he keeps falling into relationships with women who perceive this about him, see him as kindly, stable and decent, and then having to violently break it off. The ironic thing is he only recognizes this while he's drunk and/or stoned, and indeed it's sort of amusing for me who perceives it all the time (and usually is far and away not drunk or stoned), to notice that only in those emotionally bare states will he dare to recognize his own very human qualities and that he's not the absolute synic he things he is.

So, to conclude this rant, while I do agree there are case of projecting our feelings and idealisations onto others, I'd be careful bout how much we read into this, because sometimes a friend is! just a friend.

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