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#439893 - 07/03/13 08:36 AM question
newground Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 645
Loc: michigan
I don't really know how to approach this issue so I guess I have to just say it best I can. when I came to this site and decided to try to deal in a different way. I felt I had tried anything I could to heal on my own and always kept this thing from my wife and kids for the most part. I told of one time I was attacked which gave me a sense of dealing with things but even then I didn't tell it all. in terms of how I felt things I did to try to deal etc. the thing is one of the BIG things I have done is to lie. I lie about my feelings, just don't tell when things really bother me, I have just always been pretty dishonest and when I came here I promised myself that I would just be open and real about it all. just put it out there and look at it and deal. problem is ... I cant seem to. I mean there are things I am still dealing with that I can talk about here and maybe in T but I cant tell my family. and there are things I cant talk to with my family but sometimes I can tell others. and still other things that I cant bring myself to tell anyone not even T. I feel that even if he were to ask me out right I could not be honest. T suggested I see another therapist to help work through some sexual issues but even when he said that then I thought I cant even believe I talked to you! I am sure I wont persue anything further. I guess what I want to know is does this EVER get any better? I feel like I have been as honest as I will ever know how to be and truthfully it is so much better that there is no comparison in terms of being open. but I still feel so blocked here.any input would be helpful. better hit send or I wont do it again
_________________________
Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee. let me then tow to pieces, while still chasing thee, thou damned whale! Thus, I give up the spear!"
Herman Melville

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#439896 - 07/03/13 09:22 AM Re: question [Re: newground]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3566
Loc: South-East Europe
Hey Jeff, please don't be hard on self. Healing is process and certainly it get's better, but some time is needed. Unfortunately we are sometimes impatient wanting sudden solution which is not possible for such complex problem as abuse is.
If there are things that you can't talk about than please don't push yourself. Healing is much more than plain talking about hurtful experiences. We have to be able to courageously get into core of problems and hurtful emotions, to feel it again and to "survive" it in present. It is not something that is possible to manage completely by our minds and many things are left to our intuition not rational thinking.
So give yourself some comfort, you are doing the best as you can and I'm sure you already made huge progress.

Also your post reminded me on words that I've read in one book about survivors of sexual abuse how many of us are perfectionists. If we add negative self image that could be leftover from abuse it is some combination that lead many survivors to see self in bad light, as not good enough and similar. Speaking from personal experience no one can be so strict and demanding like I can be toward myself.
Let's fight that negative self image; let's find something in ourselves that we should be proud of, I'm sure every one of us has something valuable wink !

Keep fighting!

Pero
_________________________
My story

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#439897 - 07/03/13 09:37 AM Re: question [Re: newground]
Casmir213 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 844
Loc: Northeast, USA
Hi Newground,

It seems to me that you are being very hard on yourself by using the word "dishonest" to describe yourself. That word conjures up ideas of morality and right and wrong. I don't think the issue you're talking about is related to being right or wrong at all. It seems to me that what you are talking about is what you mentioned...trying to be more open with people. Perhaps for multiple reasons, as children, we were given very good reasons not to be open about ourselves with others, like feelings of shame, keeping secrets, and mistrusting others, just to name a few. As adults, we may have incorporated these messages into our personalities and became closed off so as not to let others see our true selves and feelings.

Whatever the case may be, what you describe is something that I can relate to also. I'm trying unlearn those old lessons and teach myself to be open also. For the sake of my mental health, it is something that is well worth the effort. To be bottled up all the time isn't a healthy way to live. I'm tired of having to be the strong silent person who comes across as having no problems or feelings. Still, it is a challenge, as I've lived this closed off to others for so long.

I hope that this in some way has helped. Good luck with what you are doing here. I think that what you have done by posting this is to start to change your behavior. Your being open here about your tendency to not be open and your struggle to be open. That's definitely different behavior from being closed off to others.

Thank you for posting this, and take care,

Casmir
_________________________
I see recovery as a lifelong journey rather than a final destination, a journey, though, which can have many successes along the way.

WoR Alumnus - Hope Springs, OH, October 2009

My avatar is the farmhouse at the Hope Spring, OH WoR. It's a nice place.

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#439899 - 07/03/13 09:55 AM Re: question [Re: newground]
ren42 Offline


Registered: 03/26/11
Posts: 54
New,


Keep in mind that not revealing something or not disclosing how you feel about something is not dishonesty. The very fact that you wrote this post is showing how honest you are with others. Being able to put these feelings out there like you have shows progress. Our healing is not measured by how much we tell and who we tell and how many people know or how many people we are friends with. Healing is a journey that we are all on and it requires grace for others and for yourself.

Regarding the therapist incident you described, I had the same experience it took me 11 sessions with one before I even got to the abuse and in our break through session he wanted me to see someone else. While I felt anger, betrayal all of those things because it was a journey, it set me on a quest to find a therapist who was actually better at this than he was.

I wish you well.

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#439900 - 07/03/13 10:05 AM Re: question [Re: newground]
BuffaloCO Offline


Registered: 07/14/12
Posts: 412
Loc: USA
Hi NG, I am learning that for me, I have to take it on one thing at a time and even then it's not easy, but we do move forward. Right now, am having to revisit stuff I thought was done. So ok, I'll do that as the idea of stopping or going back seems more painful then taking on new things or re-looking at old things. I guess I figured out that trying to totally ignore something does not work.

There is stuff I don't talk to my T about, and I have not talked to my family yet either. My T says that what Im learning from him, like how to process things, is something I can do on my own too if I need to. Annomolus taught me some exercises that help too when I get into my hyper angry mode, like making a list in my mind of all the kinds of ice cream I like or can name. That takes my focus off of memories and now the strange new sound that plays in my head, which is also tied to a memory. It doesn't make me forget it, but takes the immediate panic away and I can focus on other stuff then. Kind of like taking a med without taking a real med.

I think you get to weird points too, like lately I've been stalled by trust issues or other things I don't get, so I try to settle and say ok, let it rest for a bit, charge up inside and then try to start later. Sometime I think we just need to rest. I'm not good at that but am learning how even with my high energy. And, talking to others still helps me feel better inside, like we sort stuff out together. I don't know all of the answers, maybe not even a lot of them, but we fill in the parts of the puzzle for each other I think by talking. All of the messages and chats I've had with you and Pero and some others here have helped, and I know that, even though right now I'm sorting through the stupid trust issue again. With that issue, I am figuring out better how to trust, and it'll be good in the end when I do. I know too that it won't be good if I just stop and give up, even though I can whine sometimes about how hard it is.

I look back at where I was, see where I am now, and I know I'm better off. So it's gotta get better moving forward. Stopping and giving up, feels like I would be letting "them" win. That idea alone sometimes keeps me going as it's enough to get me angry if I let them win. With moving forward, I can look at the bad people in my memories and say...see, you were wrong! You never defined me and I am still here dude or dudes. Not only still here, but I made it, I grew up and I have a real life too.
_________________________
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.” - Plato

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#439904 - 07/03/13 11:27 AM Re: question [Re: newground]
newground Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 645
Loc: michigan
thanks guys
this is one of the hardest things still for me to deal with it is impossibly hard for me to just bend my rules I feel like this is my fight and I have to do it and that is after all the help and support I have received from you all. I always feel the threat even when it is not there like just now sense this posting I thought of so many ways what I said could be read wrong and leave me misunderstood. I do think it is a matter of perfectionism too pero, I measure all my words so carefully, I set them down like land mines waiting for them to blow up in my face.and yea being open still scares the hell out of me. in real life it just really doesn't happen.
_________________________
Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee. let me then tow to pieces, while still chasing thee, thou damned whale! Thus, I give up the spear!"
Herman Melville

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#439906 - 07/03/13 12:21 PM Re: question [Re: newground]
toddop Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/14/11
Posts: 207
Loc: California
I really identify with a lot of what you say in your post, newground. I do the same thing. To me it is like people hover around me in orbits like planets. The closer they are to the center, the more they get the real me. And, the more comfort I have in expressing my true feelings and personality to them, warts and all. So, acquaintances and people from work hover pretty high and they don't even know the real me. People like my best friend and my partner, they get to see more of the real me than anyone, even the stuff I think is the bad me, feeling and such that are tied to the abuse and its effects. But, even they do not get the "real" me completely. Like you said, there are just some things I can't share with anyone. At least not yet.

To me, it is just a sign of protecting yourself. We had to endure a lot as kids and we create those layers to protect ourselves, or sometimes others, from what was going on. I think doing that in an extreme way at such a young age really implants a specific way of dealing with people, that becomes our natural way of dealing with people, even as adults. Breaking down that response, because it was a core part of an intense survival system we created as kids, seems like it would be one of the hardest things to change. But, I think like anything of the effects of abuse, the solution to being really authentic with other people, minus the strategies of the scared kids inside of us, is awareness. That is the start, and that is where it seems like you are. You have an awareness of something that you think may need to change. Next will come the steps to change it, then the actions.

Good luck, newground. I really see this as a sign of you moving forward.

Todd
_________________________
Todd

"Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds."
-Albert Einstein

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#439929 - 07/03/13 04:18 PM Re: question [Re: newground]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 698
Loc: NJ
Jeff,

To start I want to thank you for trusting us and bringing it here.

Im trying to read between the lines here as best I can and I w ant you to take a moment and breathe buddy.

Im thinking at the core here is trust. We trust we let our gaurd down, we get hurt.

We lie, its second nature to protect "the secret".

What happens you trust your therapist with the dark shit and they let us down? How do we heal if we don't get to the dark shit with T? see the paradox?

There are no answers per se, but I can tell you that your a good man who has helped and continues to be helped. I can blow fairy dust and pretend to absolve you of old shit but the only person who needs to let go is you. You are the answer cause nobody else can give you what your after...the freedom to be who you are and be free of the 800lb sitting on your shoulder.

Might I suggest not giving up on finding another T. Some people are just smarter or more skiled than their current professional and not always because they are dopes :D, but they just dont have the experience or training.

I know that 1in6 does T trainings and that its making a difference. Have the current T reach out for further education and or MIke Lew also does many a seminar on how to reach out to T.

At some point trust yourself to trust them. So much easier said than donem, but give yourdself that gift. The chance to bring your shit to somebody who will not use it against you, nor judge you. In reality there is no friendship in that room..they are a priofessional there to help you. On some level have to give up the expectation of them thinking bad of you, cause a) if they do they are /have thier own shit. b)do you really want or need thier friendship? This is about council...about taking what you say and guiding you to where you need to be. Its not about them...PERIOD.

I hope that you find the right people that can make you comfortable enough to let the your truth out best your can. Does family need to know everything? nah, broad strokes works but for me, personally, having a group of survivors to help me work through shit is better on some levels than bringing it all to my wife. There are things for sure I bring to her and we work through, but some things she doesnt need to know and the group is where I bring it. We all know everything about each other and I have to believe in trust that they are not gonna take my shit and "use it against me". hard to get, wonderful when you get there.

Are there things Im still not gonna talk about wiht them or T...on some level Yes. we all got that, but I can trust and bring more than I ever have...cause in the end its about me healing.

Go gentle on you dude, your a good guy...been through so much, and everyday your getting better. It happens, YOU make it happen. I believe in you, believe in yourself.

End Rant.
_________________________

My posts can self destruct at any time..read them while you can.

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#439949 - 07/03/13 06:47 PM Re: question [Re: newground]
ThisMan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/13
Posts: 758
Loc: upper south
Hey, NG. I didn't read the others' posting responses so if I repeat what they say... then it must be good!

I also have a nice, long history of sexual abuse. In being married for almost 24 yrs, I did tell my wife of the teenage abuse. That lasted from 13 to 17. She knew who it was, that I gave repeated oral. etc. I once talked about it in a public, as in a presentation to my church. They were mostly older and I wish I had not done it, but it was freeing none the less. I have a journal of free verse that I have let my sons read, so they have some understanding of the teen years.

BUTTTTTT........ I never discussed, mentioned, brought up the abuse that began at the age of four. or five. and beyond. No one other than the people involved know of that abuse other than the T. And as I posted last night, even then I withheld info because I can't handle the emotions. NOONE in the real world save for two of my closest friends know of the ASA.... no one other than the Ts. And then one thought it was because of co-dependancy and the other made off hand jokes about it... as in laughing at rape... so when the trust isn't there, it just isn't there.... so far this T has been a bit more mature and understanding... so far...And then all the behaviors associated with these assaults ... oh my God, brother. No one knows it all except me, my guardian angel, and God.

When you are ready to disclose, you will. When you feel safe enough to share, you will. Someone has already told you that we have to step into the dark places to walk thru to the healing side, and we do if we are to control and move the healing forward. But be easy on yourself. Be kind to yourself. Try to UNDERSTAND yourself. And maybe you aren't necessarily lying, you are just withholding for your own survival... its all semantics, but it still matters what you tell yourself. Someone said it earlier... be gentle to yourself. And steal away and cry. Release the pain.

Thanks for trusting in us enough to share your misgivings. It helps me just to know other guys struggle and question the same things I do. If I had someone special in my life today, I seriously doubt if I could be completely honest with them, even considering the progress I have made.

...and a big ps.... all stories and feelings are truthful I share with you guys on MS... And I do withhold feelings and details because I am still "scared" of what someone might say or think... its just a normal way of being for us. Cautious, if you will.

My best.



Edited by ThisMan (07/03/13 06:51 PM)
_________________________
For now we see through a glass, darkly.



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#439967 - 07/03/13 08:56 PM Re: question [Re: newground]
newground Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 645
Loc: michigan
hey guys
again thank you for the responses sometimes I just don't feel like there is a way around these things. I guess I am hard on myself after all the stakes seemed pretty high for a long time. it's hard to convince myself that it might not be necessary now. and yea liar is a strong word,I agree with you this man the stories and whatever I tell here are all too real and it tends to scare me sometimes. any way thanks again
Jeff
_________________________
Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee. let me then tow to pieces, while still chasing thee, thou damned whale! Thus, I give up the spear!"
Herman Melville

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