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#439741 - 07/01/13 11:07 PM SSA and Sexual Orientation
Dave PNW Offline


Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 111
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Same Sex Attraction and Orientation

I have struggled with this question of orientation for years. Seems ridiculous for a 52 year old man married for 26 years with two grown kids to not be clear on this. However I only really started to confront honestly my early childhood sexualization and abuse ten months ago. Only then did I discover that same sex attraction is common after childhood sexual abuse.
For me same sex attraction didn't start until after my summer of sexual abuse when I was 13. Even during that first summer I didn't really look at other boys with that interest. This would develop more later, especially after the abuse stopped. I was attracted to girls, albeit a little later than for some of my friends. My CSA had added enough confusion and doubt into my self concept that my confidence in myself was severely shaken. But I can recall how good I felt around girls at that age too, how much I wanted a girlfriend. Sometimes they took my breath away. But I always felt damaged and less than other boys. Why would any girl ever want to be with me? I even wondered sometimes if I could even function properly when the time came. My CSA delayed my sexual development by years.

Eventually when I started to have long term relationships with women in my early twenties it felt good and right. There was a quality of peace in my relationships with women. The sex was fantastic, but it was more than that, it was a feeling of wholeness and a sense that they somehow helped to complete me. These relationships healed me, made me better as a man and as a human being. As I have struggled with this question over the years, I come back over and over to remembering this deep and true sense at my core. I have been happy and fulfilled with the women in my life over the last 32 years. I love my wife. I guess that this is probably as clear as it ever gets.
As CSA survivors we lose trust, I mostly lost trust in myself. Lost the ability to truly trust the bearing of my internal compass. I have been fortunate, I know. But I still doubt.
But I have to admit that I do still have some feelings of same sex attraction. I honestly find some men beautiful. I find gay pornography arousing. I can imagine that given the right or wrong circumstances I could function adequately with another guy as a partner. Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if I had taken this route in the early 80's in college. I think it is plausible I could have pursued this path. Would I be happy and fulfilled just as well? More so? I know this knowledge would have come at a high cost. I certainly would have been disowned by my family, but we aren't that close anyway. The AIDs epidemic in the early 80's could easily have taken me. But I ended up being sort of sexually sedated for that part of my life.... a brush with religion, wilderness and preferring social isolation...in the end kept me from going down that path..

So I want to ask..... How do you really know what is SSA and what is true orientation? I know you can't answer for me. But how did you know? I guess I ask this, with just a touch of uncertainty still. The old wounds still making me unsure of my legs and my compass still sometimes gives a bearing I am not sure I can trust. Just wanted to ask. I am so glad I have a place where I can put this out there. Thank you friends.

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#439782 - 07/02/13 09:51 AM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
This is a horribly painful question that strikes right to the core of one's identity. Unless the survivor had previously had a well-defined and basically exclusive sexual preference, there's no way to know if this is how they were always going to turn out or if it was a result of the abuse causing the mind to fixate on imagery of sex with men. Doesn't help that same-sex fantasies are very common in general and that sexuality can be somewhat fluid over time.

I'm afraid there is no concrete answer... The issue then is whether you try to reject these feelings or accept them as part of yourself and your fantasy life - and if you ever act upon them (which as a married man, you really shouldn't.)

My own sexual interests developed pretty evenly "both ways" at 13 - I was horrified because the notion that I could ever be attracted to guys far outweighed the fact that I was attracted to girls too. It took me 10 years to accept myself as a bisexual man, to abandon shame and actually enjoy my feelings... and then I came here and learned about SSA. The notion that I might not have actually been bi at all, that I might have been a straight guy damaged and redirected by sexual assault, was nothing short of devastating. To accept your identity only to find that it might not be yours at all.


How do you know what's a true orientation? Well, I'm going to indulge in some stereotyping here, mostly repeated from Dan Savage columns. I apologize if this offends anyone and will edit it out if requested....

If you enjoy performing oral sex on women, you're almost certainly not "completely" gay. And when you think about being intimate with men, if you focus chiefly on just their genitals and specific sex acts (what many porn sites call "cock-curious") this is more likely to represent SSA than if you want to be emotionally involved with a man, could see yourself passionately kissing one or falling in true love - the latter is more orientational.

That's the shorthand I'd use, anyway.
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#439809 - 07/02/13 03:23 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
bodyguard8367 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
dw1972+

Same Sex Attraction is different from Sexual Orientation. Orientation is a state of being, a point of reference, a certain perspective. Same Sex Attraction is desire pure and simple. If you look at a heterosexual male with CSA and resultant Same Sex Attraction, and compare him to a homosexual male with CSA the development of Same Sex Attraction is not the same.

A Homosexual male grows up with same sex attraction, only he is unaware of it at first. Small clues remind him that others don't feel the way he does and that he has to be careful not to let the others know lest they discover how different he is. A homosexual male wouldn't ever say that the sex with women was "fantastic". It wasn't....it was what I had to endure so that I could pretend that I was "normal" and "like everyone else". But in order to have an orgasm I closed my eyes and pretended I was giving oral sex to another male.

Same Sex Attraction is like watching porn.

Homosexuality is a little like falling in love.

I hope some of this has clarified some things, hope you are happy in your marriage. It would be a shame to leave it without a very good reason.
Geoff

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#439822 - 07/02/13 05:03 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
David Mac Offline


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 57
Loc: Pacific North West
Hey dw,
Thank you for that very fine post. I too have oftened wondered about the relationship between csa and homosexual orientation. Before my father incested me and sold me to child porn, I was just like all the other kids on the block. After the abuse the bed wetting began and free-floating anxiety towards males, especially older boys. I also severed myself completely from any affection I had towards my mother. The women in the porn ring did me the most damage emotionally.

I had a recurring dream during the period of abuse. I dreampt that something like wagontrains were moving in a clockwise circle. Then suddenly they stopped. I was struck by the feeling of unnaturalness and the wagons began moving in a counter-clockwise motion.

Anxiety and fear was my daily food after csa. When my sexual orientation manifested itself in ssa, my anxieties skyrocketed. The only release I had from my painful state of anxiety, isolation and lonliness was masterbation. From masterbation pornography was added by my father whose home was like a porn shop and this was in the late 60's! Over the years cruising was added to the mix and I found the perfect drug of choice - lust.

Now in my 50's, I joined sexaholics anonymous. My sexual sobriety has many benefits. One in particular I would like to share.

When I first realized the program worked, I was elated. I had a dream that I flew over a river and into my recovery room. I was flying around the ceiling shouting, "It works if you work it!" ( a 12 step motto) The next night I had a similar dream. I flew accross the same river and into the recovery foom. This time there was a young Italian woman standing there by herself. Flying overhead, I looked down at her and thought to myself, "She's beautiful." I flew down and though still in the air, I took her right hand in mine. We kissed. In that kiss I felt the God given natural passion of a female for a male. It was very gentle, clean and good.

That dream got me thinking. So I am glad that you are thinking about it too. I wonder if there is any research in the area between homosexuality and csa. In my recovery rooms other men who are survivors of csa seem to point to it as well.

Thank you again for your thought provoking post. I looke forward to reading more of your reflections.

Mac

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#439850 - 07/02/13 10:37 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
Rustam Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 470
Loc: UK
I think as others have said here that SSA is about acting out what happened in the abuse, it tends to be compulsive and focused on sex acts or body parts as opposed to the possibility of having a loving relationship with someone of the same sex, gay men can of course act out in the same way and not achieve loving relationships. The whole thing is further complicated by bisexuality.

For myself I feel that I am mostly gay about 70% gay and 30% straight, I had relationships with women after I came out as gay and the problems in those relationships were about abuse not my sexuality. I expect it is an individual thing what sexuality we are born with, how the abuse affected us and what choices we make in societies that were and still can be pretty hostile to same sex relationships. When I first read about SSA I did wonder how gay I was meant to be without abuse and if I could have saved myself all the challenges that come with a gay identity (the abuse started so early that I would have had no idea about being different) but I am pretty settled that abuse did not have any effect on my orientation it just messed up my ability to be sexually intimate. My brothers are not gay and grew up in the same family with the same abusers.

From what you say it sounds like you made good choices, being happy and fulfilled with women for 32 years sounds pretty great. Other choices, other lives who knows!

Peter

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#440048 - 07/04/13 11:46 AM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1308
Originally Posted By: dw1972+
How do you really know what is SSA and what is true orientation? I know you can't answer for me. But how did you know? I guess I ask this, with just a touch of uncertainty still. The old wounds still making me unsure of my legs and my compass still sometimes gives a bearing I am not sure I can trust. Just wanted to ask. I am so glad I have a place where I can put this out there. Thank you friends.

True wisdom comes to each of us when we realize how little we understand about life, ourselves, and the world around us.

- Socrates
_________________________



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#440256 - 07/06/13 11:57 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
Dave PNW Offline


Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 111
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Thanks guys for the thoughtful responses. They really helped me with sorting this. Having a safe place to ask the hard or unclear questions has been really helpful to me. The compassion, understanding, life experience and nonjudgmental support here has made it possible for me to start to sort out so many of my big life issues with honesty and new insight. I have needed this for 30 years. In some ways and on some days I feel like I am just starting to really know myself. And that's really good, about time.

Soccer Star - Matt I value your insights on these issues and read your posts and responses knowing I am going to learn something new or gain a fresh perspective. Thank you for sharing. I am new on this path, I struggle with just coming up with the words and phrases and questions for things that two months ago were unspeakable.

Bodyguard - Geoff. Thank you for being so direct. I can take pages to get to a point. You have this zen like precision that cuts to the core. Your strength, self awareness and depth of life experience makes me feel like I have the emotional IQ of an 8th grader. I am a little embarrassed to have confused my SSA with true orientation, feel kind of shallow. Explaining true orientation is like falling in love and SSA is like watching porn hit me upside the head. Like one of those zen stories where the master gives you a good whack on the head. Realization. Thanks.

David Mac- really helpful to hear how similar our experiences with SSA were. This is all so much more complicated than I ever understood before. Your dream reminded me how from time to time since I have started working on my recovery how I sometimes have tapped into that original feeling of simple innocent desire I knew before my CSA. Like seeing my original face. Thanks for reminding me.

Rustam- thank you for helping me clarify more of this. It's taken me a long time to ask these questions. Thanks for helping me confirm what I must have know deep down all along.

Chase Eric- thanks for the support and being a witness as I work with this. Thanks for the support you gave me the morning I posted after that cold and rainy solo swim a month ago. Made me feel like I had someone out there to tell what was going on in my life who would get it. Enjoy the surf down there. I am learning up here in the cold waters in Oregon. Good medicine.

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#440345 - 07/08/13 03:08 AM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 398
Loc: west coast
Dw

I understand your confusion, I was married for 25 years. I also have 2 grown kids. I understand completely how there is a bond with the person you fell in love with, yet somehow you know you don't feel entirely present.

An internal sexual arousal or attraction to someone, male or female is your orientation and is something that is not really changeable at this stage of the game. It is likely the distillation of biology, hormonal factors, possibly experiences and imprinting and who knows. But it is where we are. Its kind of pointless to ask why, though it would be nice to know sometimes, just to make it more understandable.

Sexual behavior is a choice and you can act on it or not. But the attraction will be there whether we do something or never.

Same sex attraction is not a great term because it explains nothing. Men who are not oriented in a gay or bi way will not generally experience pleasure from thoughts of being with another man, and will likely not act on those thoughts because their orientation is more geared towards being with a woman. Perhaps in an all male setting like jail or the Vatican they could participate in sex with other men, but once out or defrocked they would naturally gravitate back to being with a woman. So sexual behavior with another man, does not mean a person is gay or even bi.

I have trouble with the concept of re-enacting the abuse except now being in control. I think a more likely explanation is that these so called "acting out" experiences with other men are clandestine, usually fraught with unsafe, unhealthy sexual practices because this is a compulsive faulty coping mechanism.

You are wise to ask the questions, the answers are sometimes not what we want to hear. Its all a part of the process of learning about our individual sexuality that without question was muddied, delayed or hidden by our CSA. Its there, just tougher to find, understand and often accept.

Best wishes bro.


Edited by 1lifenow (07/08/13 03:09 AM)
_________________________
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

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#440707 - 07/12/13 08:33 AM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: bodyguard8367]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1184
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: bodyguard8367
....it was what I had to endure so that I could pretend that I was "normal" and "like everyone else". But in order to have an orgasm I closed my eyes and pretended I was giving oral sex to another male....
Hey Geoff

That's the first time I've heart that here. I might have mentioned that in PM or to my T but I'm glad you said it. I've been married for 35 years, I'm not going to go into how I got here but yes all the years I was with my wife (1/2 per month, maybe) I had a third person in my bed. It was usually my boyhood "boyfriends" either thinking about us together as kids or trying to imagine what it would be like while we're grown up. I must say though that my wife was the first real girl I was ever with (I married her 5 weeks after meeting her) that wasn't a paying customer and it took a few years till I could take my underwear off in bed crazy.

But let me ask this DW, does it make any difference to you if your gay or not. I took a lot of crap in the '60s for being a faggot and was bullied in school every day and I didn't ever realize back then that I was a faggot. I thought that when the time comes I would also be interested in girls. For so many years I thought that I was straight just because I married a woman. I never gave that much thought till I came here to MS though.

Like soccerstar mentioned if your married to either species then you shouldn't be going out with someone else anyway. I look at it as partnership for life and I never hated women like some guys do but was just never interested in them. I love my wife but there is nothing romantic or sexual about it and that's fine she raised 6 beautiful and unabused children while I couldn't go near them because I was fucken scared of them, still am. The only real romantic and sexual love I had was with my 2 boyfriends and sfather (my surrogate father).

And as Geoff mentioned why even question your relationship with your wife even if you feel your gay. I used to go around looking at men all the time and not at the women unless they looked like men. I thought I was weird and fucked up in the head (which I am) but my wife is a great partner and I wouldn't leave her no matter what type of faggot I am.

Good luck and thanks for bringing up the question.

Peace, Rainbows, Love & Healing
Jeff
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#441542 - 07/20/13 10:58 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: lapchinj]
Dave PNW Offline


Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 111
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Thanks Lapchinj. You are so right. Took me a while to respond, but I have been thinking a lot about this. I am so fortunate to have married my wife. She has been a wonderful partner and I don't want to mess this up. This has a lot to do with why I started to confront my past and eventually came to MS in the first place. Thanks for being so brutally clear. I am not going to let these issues from my childhood come forward and mess with all the good I have in my life. Thanks for reminding me of that. Dave.

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#441558 - 07/21/13 12:49 AM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1184
Loc: New York
Hey dave,

I gave this a lot of thought since you brought up the subject and the bottom line is what the fuck matters if I'm gay. I think she would also think that way but why take the chance of freaking out the wife if she is challenged by the fact that her husband is gay. I have nothing from it if I do tell her. Why stir up a bees nest for no reason. Would I want to leave her, no.

I know of guys who either lost their wives or separated and just took up an openly gay lifestyle. This is not the '60s and I'm not scared of being called a faggot. I would even go around with a name tag with my name "Jeff Faggot". But I don't think I will outlive my wife so there are no questions for me to ask anymore, it just becomes a mute point when you have the right partner.

Hope you're doing OK

Peace, Rainbows, Love & Healing
Jeff
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#441564 - 07/21/13 01:27 AM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 858
Loc: washington
Personally, how did I know...???

You know, with all the emasculation, feminization of my past, coupled with the fact that, I had herniated testicles and lost one of them...(I have concluded, as a result of this nature/nurture dynamic, that I often feel bi-gender at times), and if this is the case, then sometimes I feel like half a girl, and other times I totally switch, from one gender to the other.(so, I absolutely get where you said, "you felt damaged and less than other boys)...

And if I am hypothetically intimate with a man, when I am a girl, does this make me straight...??? (questions like these lead me down the road of mental master...

My first point is that, I am guessing, I am not the only one here that has issues concerning ones own sexual identity (and obviously I have to ask this question first). Who I am, before I ask, how I relate to others.

~break~

What I am trying to get at is, that there have been times in my journey, when trying to force the answers, and all I ended up doing was driving myself rather psychotic.

Upon reflection, I believe it impossible to "unring" the bell of life. (that is, not all questions have answers...i.e which came first, "the chicken or the egg...

A term that afforded me relief along the way: "pomosexual" (see urban dictionary)...added to Carl Jung's thoughts on androgeny, in stating that these people were more balanced in the duality of being in contact with both there masculine and feminine sides...(this leads me to believe that this is perhaps, more of a blessing than a curse).

All I really know is the difference between the glass that is half empty, and the one that is half full, is a matter of perspective.

(acceptance leaning towards serenity, that it is o.k. to not have all the answers).


Broken Wings (Mr. Mister)

island
_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#441590 - 07/21/13 09:20 AM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1184
Loc: New York
Hey Island,

I would like to mention that the chicken and the egg came at the same time. The chicken was in the egg grin.

I think your outlook on your issues is just fine. It's the first time I heard the word or description "pomosexual". While knowing I'm gay is a blessing in disguise. I don't really know if it defines me, I'm just me.

Peace, Rainbows, Love & Healing
Jeff
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#441724 - 07/22/13 09:47 AM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
bodyguard8367 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/27/14 05:44 PM)

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#462021 - 03/04/14 04:28 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
9699 Offline


Registered: 01/28/14
Posts: 1
Loc: California
What you said was powerful, I had to edit what I said in the previous post because it didn't sound right, for me what I had experienced was me being brainwashed and this happened for 4 years. I did what he told me to do and it did not seem like there was anything wrong because he he was very subtle and I didn't have a close relationship with my dad and so he was like my dad in many ways. I wish it never happened but it did and I am feeling responsible for being taken advantage of to a point. I am gay and I feel that before the molestation I never felt that way.


Edited by 9699 (03/13/14 02:01 AM)
Edit Reason: I had a lot of typos

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#462040 - 03/04/14 09:39 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
Rustam Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 470
Loc: UK
Welcome to the site 9699,
All abuse is terrible but there is something particularly twisted and horrific about what you describe.
Glad you have come to this site, hope you find it helpful.
Welcome again

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#462202 - 03/07/14 09:32 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
Threetimes19 Offline


Registered: 02/13/14
Posts: 14
I never considered myself gay because I don't look at men in a sexual manner. I've always known this it's kind of innate just like my brothers what bothered me more was my physical reaction though. I feel much of the time like really I can't identify as straight because of my past really with the SA and CSA. Because I did it willingly and thought I liked it. But I never looked at boys my age at the time. And as I got older I just got more of an attraction to females.


Edited by Threetimes19 (03/07/14 10:52 PM)

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#462216 - 03/08/14 05:24 AM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
don64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 678
Loc: St. Croix, USVI
Hi Dave,

I have to say I find this topic very humanizing. There seems to be so much energy in the world invested in very narrow definitions of who I am and what is acceptable. What is so refreshing in this post is how different we all are. For me, most of the problems in my life are reduced to the fallout from not measuring up to the social pressures to conform--to conform to a normal that is not even close to who I am. As I lose outer notions of who I am supposed to be, I find what is natural for ME. And, for the first time I am beginning to feel a comfort in my own skin.

I have always been gay, and have also sustained severe SSA damage. So, the effects of the abuse, from both parents, is to have made it impossible for me to have satisfying intimacy with another man. HOWEVER, I do not give up. Soon to be 65, I continue to heal and I continue to grow. I'm not looking, but if an interesting man seeks me out, you better believe I'll have a conversation.

Thanks Dave for the topic. It makes all my differences feel so normal.

Don
_________________________
Divine Law is not judgment or denial of self truths. Divine Law is honoring harmony that comes from a peaceful mind, an open heart, a true tongue, a light step, a forgiving nature, and a love of all living creatures. Jamie Sams & David Carson, Medicine Cards

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#462264 - 03/09/14 11:00 AM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
ThisMan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/13
Posts: 767
Loc: upper south
It is an interesting thread and I have read through several times since it began in July. I find the opinions and expressions of sexuality to help immensely. The comments help me to not feel so far out in left field. I will share that my views are similar. The biggest difference is that when I was married, I was straight married. When I found myself single by death, I found that I enjoyed m2m encounters. SSA or an emerging "gayness"? I don't know which. I don't spend much time contemplating on the issue these days because the goal of healing is learning to love yourself. But, the thing always missing with the SSA encounters for me was true intimacy, feeling something deep, being held, being listened to…. true intimacy. I found it for a brief time with a male, but that ended with the disaster of ASA. Since that time, I have been very careful NOT to let emotions enter in … until recently.

Regardless, what I am trying to express is that we sometimes spend so much energy trying to determine our orientation, when what we should be tuning into is the chance to love, to feel loved, to enjoy what Geoff and Jeff have, a true partner in life. Male or female. I have discovered that I just need to calm it down, chill it out, and enjoy the new life I am establishing. Our heart will let us know when things are right, and when they aren't- if we just open up to everyday. (which I am working on, but it is SOOOOO hard to trust!)

Thanks, Dave for the topic also. And to the guys who have my respect for their honesty and healing insight.


Edited by ThisMan (03/09/14 11:18 AM)
_________________________
For now we see through a glass, darkly.



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#463437 - 03/30/14 08:00 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 326
Loc: Southeast USA
Sup guys...

This topic has had a few threads lately. It was the bottom of the barrel for me. The thing down there that scared me.

The CSA monster for me, and only my feelings here, it is about shame. The shame had a double dose. My internal shame, and the fear of society hating me as a broken person.

The gay thing is undeniable. It haunted me. Made me feel dirty. Back wheni was a kid it was a curse. So it felt like my CSA totally defiled me on the inside and out.

What has helped is saying it, or rather typing it out here. Gradually it is less shameful. It took months before I could type out in words that when I was 7 I spent lots of time sucking a cock. But the power of the shame associated with that confession of abuse is fading. It just does not define me.

For same sex attraction? I was groomed and idolized my abuser. I liked it. He did me. I liked that too. I escaped drunken abusive parents to him. Not getting hit and screamed at, and feeling perversely wanted was good. Yes. I had that attraction for a while.

But now, the social acceptance of gays takes some of that sting away. Not that I am gay, but it just isn't a big deal. It is a choice.

The shame of CSA, that is enough. It is ok I enjoyed servicing him as a striated little kid. I have accepted it. And I feel less anxiety in life. So what? It just does not matter.

Like what you like and own it. We survived way to much evil shit happening to us to not enjoy the sex we like.

I wish you freedom, and the courage to be yourself.
_________________________
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.

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#463561 - 04/02/14 10:53 AM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: On The Fringe]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1184
Loc: New York
Hey OTF

Originally Posted By: On The Fringe
....For same sex attraction? I was groomed and idolized my abuser. I liked it. He did me. I liked that too. I escaped drunken abusive parents to him. Not getting hit and screamed at, and feeling perversely wanted was good. Yes. I had that attraction for a while....
My feelings exactly except for the last piece. After 40+ years I still love him. Even after all that he had others do to me I still love him. I can only describe him as 2 distinct people, the one I loved and the one I loved but...... I can't seem to bring those two people together.

My parents weren't drunks but maybe if they were I wouldn't have had to wait till age 12 to leave.

Like you I suffer from shame but my shame brought on by guilt. One of being in love with the man who loved me and second is the guilt from doing to others what I should never have done, even though I didn't have a choice.

I have wanted for a long time to tell my story but the most I can say is that I was abused, I cannot say more than that. Without me telling my story I am still in hiding like I've been for the last 40+ years, I am not free of my past and I'm afraid I never will be. Again being gay and being married to a woman for 37 years is shame brought on by guilt. I could never tell my wife that I'm gay. She is the one that stood by me these past 3 years since I fell apart from my past. Again I'm hiding and again I'm not free. With all this hiding and freedomless life I think that the only time I will get any peace is when I move on.

It is a horrible feeling being cornered without a way to escape one's past. I do own what my past was all about, the problem is that I'm not free from it, and it seems I never will be until my time comes.

Peace, Rainbows, Love, Healing & Hope
Jeff
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#463575 - 04/02/14 08:05 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: lapchinj]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 326
Loc: Southeast USA
Originally Posted By: lapchinj
Hey OTF

Originally Posted By: On The Fringe
....For same sex attraction? I was groomed and idolized my abuser. I liked it. He did me. I liked that too. I escaped drunken abusive parents to him. Not getting hit and screamed at, and feeling perversely wanted was good. Yes. I had that attraction for a while....
My feelings exactly except for the last piece. After 40+ years I still love him. Even after all that he had others do to me I still love him. I can only describe him as 2 distinct people, the one I loved and the one I loved but...... I can't seem to bring those two people together.

My parents weren't drunks but maybe if they were I wouldn't have had to wait till age 12 to leave.

Like you I suffer from shame but my shame brought on by guilt. One of being in love with the man who loved me and second is the guilt from doing to others what I should never have done, even though I didn't have a choice.

I have wanted for a long time to tell my story but the most I can say is that I was abused, I cannot say more than that. Without me telling my story I am still in hiding like I've been for the last 40+ years, I am not free of my past and I'm afraid I never will be. Again being gay and being married to a woman for 37 years is shame brought on by guilt. I could never tell my wife that I'm gay. She is the one that stood by me these past 3 years since I fell apart from my past. Again I'm hiding and again I'm not free. With all this hiding and freedomless life I think that the only time I will get any peace is when I move on.

It is a horrible feeling being cornered without a way to escape one's past. I do own what my past was all about, the problem is that I'm not free from it, and it seems I never will be until my time comes.

Peace, Rainbows, Love, Healing & Hope
Jeff


We moved and I never saw him again. I had probably 5 or so male partners after him. Young slut.

It was my way back then. I'm not sure if this makes any sense at all, I was the hamster in the wheel. I did what I knew. I felt something. I can't say exactly what, maybe belonging, like I was doing something right? I don't know. For sure it was ingrained in my mind. Frozen memories others talk of. I remember the first one like a picture. Weird. I have no animosity for gays now. I am a friend to outcasts in general. I know how it feels.

This side of my youth and CSA fallout I have not dealt with much. This is a great deal of first time sharing on all of this. I just felt kinda lost. I can't even begin to understand it all. I really don't even care. It is water under a bridge I long ago crossed.

There was a time when a switch flipped. I was getting attention from women and was curious. It was a second wave of fear, not knowing what to do with them. I was seriously attracted to strippers and slutty women.

So many goofy ways CSA hits me.

I feel for you your feelings of being trapped. It must be a subject of much prayer and meditation for you. I know from the last 30 years of being straight only that most women would flip. I hope you come to terms with it and it works out well.

I don't know if it is right to say, but it seems it would be best to consider waiting until it is least financially disastrous for you.

A guy gotta pay the rent...

This was a disjointed ramble! Ha!
_________________________
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.

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#463585 - 04/02/14 11:24 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1184
Loc: New York
Hey OTF

My marriage was not really sexual but that would take too long to explain. I don't look at her as a woman but a friend, if that makes any sense.

I was freed from my hell by a war nobody wanted and I didn't want to die in a rice paddy. I was lucky and spent my time in the states. But that was the break of the ring around the rosey for me. I haven't had any other men or women since then, I have 6 wonderful kids that are normal and unabused. I never raised a hand to them, I hardly ever yelled at them, to put it a better way my mother yelled at me I was upset with my kids from time to time. I let them follow their own hearts after age 16.

I have grandchildren also, beautiful kids also unabused. My abuse made is so that I never changed a diaper, never was home (worked 14-16 hour days), never did homework with the kids and never held them. This is what my life is and was. I feel like I'm in solitary confinement. My kids come over with their kids and I go downstairs to the basement and the safety of my dungeon. This is why I say I will never escape my past.

On top of all this I'm gay and I miss my friends that I grew up with. Yes they were also prostitutes but they were gay and I loved them, still do.

I cut my ties with the world I knew so well and started a new life in a place where nobody knew me and knew nothing about me before I got out of the USAF. I was lucky but some of my friends are dead but I still love their memories.

At this stage in my life while I would love to tell my wife that I'm gay I see no point in doing that at all, I would have to be crazy crazy smile

Cheers

Peace, Rainbows, Love, Healing & Hope
<3 XOXO
Jeff
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#463595 - 04/03/14 05:14 AM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
don64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 678
Loc: St. Croix, USVI
Hi Jeff,

I am so sorry for what you are going through and what you have gone through. It feels so healthy to me for you to be expressing you feelings here. I find expressing my feelings to be an emotional release that is very healing.

Love and good will,

Don
_________________________
Divine Law is not judgment or denial of self truths. Divine Law is honoring harmony that comes from a peaceful mind, an open heart, a true tongue, a light step, a forgiving nature, and a love of all living creatures. Jamie Sams & David Carson, Medicine Cards

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#463599 - 04/03/14 05:54 AM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 326
Loc: Southeast USA
Jeff,

Sounds like a tough road in some ways you are on. I'm feeling the emptiness in your words for certain areas. But you share lots of wonderful family things. There is hope and love in family.

There is a strange safety and comfort here. Another thing I say to people is that I really give two shits if someone is ay or not. And why should I ? To be friends it does not matter. It's not like we will take our relationship to that level! Ha!

((((Jeff))))

I hope you find fulfillment in your future for the rest of your life. You know, feel loved for who you are as a sensual being deep down inside. For me, nothing takes the place of that.

Tis thread had been good to show me the recurring common theme of many of us needing and seeking that. My CSA confused me a bit on my journey. The various people I had relationships with, one guy was a long term friend occasional sex partner back in my youth. I wonder how he is. We were both in train wreck families, had CSA issues, and were outcasts.

So much to think on, but I choose to take small bites of it. It can weird me out to think too long on my past, as if it matters much aside of providing perspective.

I have a question..

Why do you go downstairs to your dungeon? What is there that is so good? I am confused because it sounds like you love your family.

I'm not the best with emotional stuff so pardon my lack of understand of some basic things at times. I'm an Only child, drunken abusive parents, idolized my abuser at 7... I'm a bit off.
_________________________
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.

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#463625 - 04/03/14 06:56 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1184
Loc: New York
Hey Don

Since I came to MS it's been the first time that I ever started out talking about myself. I broke down the January before and opened up to someone I knew for at least 30 years, he got me to the Oprah show of 200 Men, the resources from the show got me here. Like you said being able to tell your story and express your feelings is about the biggest thing that has happened to me. I feel so lucky to be here. I have learned a lot and that CSA really fucks people up, I thought it was just me.

But what brought me to this thread was SSA as opposed to being gay or straight. I knew there was something I loved about boys and everyone told me that when I'm old enough I will get into girls and get married and have a family That was the outlook on life of the old farts.My wife was the first girl I went out with that wasn't a paying customer and (I told papasan that I didn't want any women anymore), I met her when I was 25 and I was married within 5 weeks. So my SSA proved not to be SSA but not gay, but rather that I knew I was gay period. When I got to high school, everyone let me know it frown.

Peace, Rainbows, Love, Healing & Hope
<3 XOXO
Jeff
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#463627 - 04/03/14 07:15 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1184
Loc: New York
Hey OTF

If it was just me alone I wouldn't give 2 shits either, but I live in a very religious, conservative and corrupt community so I have to think of the damage I can cause to my family by opening my mouth and saying what's on my mind. The only way out of my solitary is to divorce my wife and kids ( which I will never do) or die which I will do one day.

I'm also an only child but my parents were society people. I was only a ornament on their fireplace mantle. I was to be seen but not heard. Talking to my father was like talking to a doorknob, he just read his books and never got involved when my mother was beating the shit out me with his belt. I was basically out of the house at 12-1/2. As I've mentioned i also loved and still love papasan. My thoughts of him are not as an abuser but another part of him sold me to some very horrible animals for a year. That one year fucked me up more than the other 9 years of abuse and prostitution. Soooooooo, I'm also a tad off crazy grin.

As for your question, my dungeon in my basement is the safest place in the house for me and always was, it is also the safest place in the world for me. I'm married 37 years (???) and I bought the house when 2 years after I got married. So I've been down here it seems for ever. This dungeon keeps the kids out so I won't freak out if one of them jumps on me. I get into panic attacks just thinking of going upstairs with little kids around. I will die here in this room one day, I will then have my peace. Until then I'll take it like you bite by small bite.

Peace, Rainbows, Love, Healing & Hope
<3 XOXO
Jeff
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#463640 - 04/04/14 05:38 AM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 326
Loc: Southeast USA
I used to thing I was uniquely fucked up. I feel like the rest of you! Ha Ha!

This site is good for me. I site this in the morning and I chuckle to myself, finding belonging and comfort in not being alone.

CSA has a way of isolating.

Thank you
_________________________
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.

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#463657 - 04/04/14 01:49 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1184
Loc: New York
Hey OTH

I think that we're all sorry to see someone have to come here to MS, but I look at it as a brotherhood where we all share one thing in common and that's CSA. It doesn't matter what the form or the length of the CSA, one time is enough to fuck up someone for life. I found here at MS a bunch of shoulders I could lay my head on and tell my story and not have someone tell me "but it happened so long ago, forget it" or "just suck it up". We all know to some extent what the other person is going through and that's a big thing in our guest to heal. It really makes me feel good and I'm sure that it makes others feel good that they can help a brother. The saying "what goes around comes around" is very appropriate in that by helping others we help ourselves.

I hate thanking someone for being here but since your life has been altered by CSA I'm glad you decided to come to MS. You are another person that can help others and me

Thank you

Peace, Rainbows, Love, Healing & Hope
<3 XOXO
Jeff
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#463700 - 04/05/14 12:09 PM cia [Re: lapchinj]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
Post moved because it is more appropriate to place it with other material I've reported.


Edited by pufferfish (05/19/14 12:51 AM)

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#463704 - 04/05/14 12:47 PM Re: cia [Re: Dave PNW]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 326
Loc: Southeast USA
That sound too weird...

I know we are just chemical reactions in our brain.

Watch a diabetic have dramatic personality changes based on glucose levels.

I want the "I'm awesome and self confident" shock treatment!
_________________________
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.

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#463753 - 04/06/14 01:37 PM Re: cia [Re: Dave PNW]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1184
Loc: New York
Hey OTH

Yeah I heard of those Electrode in the head deals, not funny and very true. Good ole USofA did a lot of that shit to kids and adults. The awful part is that we used German doctors who were specialists in the dark side of german medicine. A guy who I work with just lost his father to cancer. He was stationed on one of those ships that had to watch the atomic bomb explosion on Bikini Atoll in 1946. (don't know if his cancer was related but he was in his 90's smile ). http://life.time.com/history/able-and-baker-photos-from-two-american-a-bomb-tests-in-july-1946/#1 . I'm not trying to make this a political thread I just want to show that shit happens in government and we have one that's among the best.

I had something similar happen to me but with only one electrode and that one was inserted in my other end, but that was only the porn business making kids do what they wanted, sort of teaching kids to jump when they say jump (it worked just as they expected it would) mad frown mad. To bad we don't know more about the mafia and the government experiments. A lot of kids suffered from both ends crazy.

Quote:
I want the "I'm awesome and self confident" shock treatment!
This makes two of us, unfortunately I would have to be on LSD crazy frown grin

Peace, Rainbows, Love, Healing & Hope
<3 XOXO
Jeff
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#463816 - 04/07/14 05:35 PM Re: cia [Re: lapchinj]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
Post has been moved to keep it in line with other posts I have made concerning things I experienced. - Puffer



Edited by pufferfish (05/19/14 12:54 AM)

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#463821 - 04/07/14 08:20 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1184
Loc: New York
Hey Pufer

oooooh! That's harsh shocked eek cry

No SSA here for me

Peace, Rainbows, Love, Healing & Hope
<3 XOXO
Jeff


Edited by lapchinj (04/07/14 08:34 PM)
_________________________
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#463849 - 04/08/14 12:30 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 326
Loc: Southeast USA
Just like the Nazi's but with better lies and PR.
_________________________
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.

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#463850 - 04/08/14 12:52 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: On The Fringe]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
Post moved



Edited by pufferfish (05/19/14 12:56 AM)

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#463870 - 04/08/14 05:54 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1184
Loc: New York

THe only SSA with Mengele was twins but that didn't matter whether girls or boys or mixed.

Peace, Rainbows, Love, Healing & Hope
<3 XOXO
Jeff
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#463892 - 04/09/14 01:49 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: lapchinj]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
I've found what seems to be a good on-line reference on experimentation on children. I (Pufferfish) am saying these things because I was made a part of this experimental project when I was a child. I didn't have a clue as to what was going on. I had no idea that there were many other children involved separately. I was 13 years old and was taken to a rickety old hospital in Washington D.C. It was in October 1953. I was told I was going to be given a necessary tonsillectomy, even though I had previously had my tonsils out. I experienced things described in this post and the ones above. However, when I went home from that experience, I had the following symptoms:

I couldn't talk, I could only whisper.
My right eye had become very near-sighted.
I was very depressed.
I was very socially isolated (more than before).
I was highly sexualized.
I started using a lot of profanity.

There is a book on this. Unfortunately the cost is $195.
http://www.amazon.com/Government-Mind-Control-Experiments-Children/dp/B0006QII2U/

Important points from this book are in the following article:

http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/Articles/Mind%20Control%20Experiments%20on%20Children.html

Following are quotes from this on-line article.
Quote:

None of this prepared people for the explosive testimony made on March 15, 1995, in Washington, D.C., before the President’s Committee on Radiation, however. In unpublicized sessions, New Orleans therapist Valerie Wolf introduced two of her patients who had uncovered memories of being part of extensive CIA brainwashing programs as young children (in one case, starting at age seven). Their brainwashing included torture, rape, electroshock, powerful drugs, hypnosis and death threats. According to their testimony, the CIA then induced amnesia to prevent their recalling these terrifying sessions.


Quote:

Prominent names surfaced in the March 15 testimony: Richard Helms, former head of the CIA, Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, who ran MK-ULTRA and Dr. John Gittinger, Gottlieb’s protege. These men and others were directly accused of participating in grisly mind-control efforts on children.


Quote:

From what I have been able to discover so far, many American children, as well as children from Mexico and South America, were used over a period of about 40 years, starting around 1948. In fact, the program may still be going on. Doctors and agents who administered it wanted to obtain control over the minds of these children, ostensibly to create superagents who wouldn’t remember even what missions they carried out, because of hypnotically induced amnesia (which could be removed by their controllers and reinstalled at will)


Quote:

Children were trained as sex agents, for example, with the job of blackmailing prominent Americans - primarily politicians, businessmen and educators. A great deal of filming was done for this purpose. Eventually, people from the inner core of the CIA program filmed each other, and some of the centres where children were used as sex agents got out of control and turned into CIA-operated sex rings.

Some children were considered expendable and simply murdered.

One person who states that he was in this program as a child said, off the record:

“They tried out their brainwashing techniques on the kids from Mexico and South America. They were considered expendable. But on another echelon of the program, they went after the best and the brightest American kids.


Quote:

“He often tied me down in a cage, which was near his office. Between 1972 and 1976 he and his assistants were sometimes careless and left the cage unlocked. Whenever physically possible, I snuck into his office and found files with reports and memos addressed to CIA and military personnel. Included in these files were project, subproject, subject and experiment names with some code numbers for radiation mind-control experiments which I have submitted in my written documentation. I was caught twice and Dr. Greene tortured me ruthlessly with electric shock, drugs, spinning on a table, putting shots in my stomach, in my back, dislocating my joints and hypnotic techniques to make me feel crazy and suicidal...”


Posted by Pufferfish



Edited by pufferfish (04/09/14 02:42 PM)

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#463944 - 04/10/14 06:02 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 326
Loc: Southeast USA
Ok all that was just nasty and evil.

Back to struggling with SSA..

I have accepted it as a strong influence in my past. It was imprinted n me by my abuse. It formed part of who I am today.

I accept it. No sense in being at war with myself.
_________________________
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.

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#463981 - 04/11/14 07:21 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1184
Loc: New York
Hey OTH

Do you think that you're gay or sort of it doesn't really matter. The reason i ask (not to be nosy) but if you are a straight guy how did it influence your life now.

I'm gay and married. It was the only thing to do in the '70s but my relationship with my wife is a strong "friendship", It's not really sexual. I look at other men but have never been with anyone else but her for the last 37 years (???).

Peace, Rainbows, Love, Healing & Hope
<3 XOXO
Jeff
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#464002 - 04/12/14 09:34 AM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: lapchinj]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 326
Loc: Southeast USA
Originally Posted By: lapchinj
Hey OTH

Do you think that you're gay or sort of it doesn't really matter. The reason i ask (not to be nosy) but if you are a straight guy how did it influence your life now.

I'm gay and married. It was the only thing to do in the '70s but my relationship with my wife is a strong "friendship", It's not really sexual. I look at other men but have never been with anyone else but her for the last 37 years (???).

Peace, Rainbows, Love, Healing & Hope
<3 XOXO
Jeff


I have to say that all of my experiences came to a sum of who I am.

The SSA side learned and felt a mainly physical thing. My CSA was under the premise of becoming a man. I thought men did that sorts thing. Maybe women were a thing on the side from the boys club? Who knows what you think at 7.

I knew at 7 I had a hero that was my idol. The sexual part was almost minor? It was cool. Weird I know. Totally Stockholm syndrome stuff.

I detached love from sex. I learned that sex was the entry key to being cool. I learned that a promise to suck his dick got me what I wanted.

I felt like later in life I just experience more of humanity, not always sexual, but some of the ga culture, the outsider aspect. Many are people pleases to try to get acceptance, living with low self esteem,

I know what I like sexually and I feel like I understand more about people in general. For me, I needed the help and friendship of all people, my gay and straight friends to make a life worth living.

I love all my friends. I went there, tried it, now I am cool with who I am. Nothing to prove. No internal war to fight.

Thanks for the question. It made me think a bit. I'm actually feeling some gratitude right now smile



Edited by On The Fringe (04/12/14 09:36 AM)
Edit Reason: Spelling
_________________________
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.

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#464013 - 04/12/14 03:38 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: Dave PNW]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1184
Loc: New York
Hey OTF

Thanks for the kind words and the way you answered gives me some food for thought. It classifies you as a person and in a specific category of people.

I on the other hand I always considered myself and looked at myself as a boy liking boys. I hear you were rewarded by certain acts to him and something in return for you. I loved papasan and he could do no wrong and I knew (so I thought) that sons slept with their fathers. I loved that world, besides everyone told me that I would get interested in girls when I was old enough.

Yes, I agree 100% that friends whether straight, gay or trans are friends. It's too bad that after I left the game and entered the USAF I never had a friend aside from one person until I came here to MS. People were always acquaintances and I had to hide my past so nobody really got to know me not even my wife, but I told her 2-1/2 years ago.

Thanks for writing your answer to my question. I was afraid I was intruding on your privacy but your answer gives me a different way of thinking.

Thanks so much

Peace, Rainbows, Love, Healing & Hope
<3 XOXO
Jeff
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#464102 - 04/15/14 01:50 AM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
Maybe I need to apologize for continuing my rant.

The reason I posted in this thread is that, as my memory clears, I think they were very interested in my sexuality. They were even interested in distorting my sexuality. The memories come together as the pieces of a complex puzzle. But the picture that emerges is an ugly one. They were interested in what stimulus would cause an erection or even a stronger response. What can be done to a pre-pubertal 13 year old that will cause a sexual response?

They were interested in the distortion of sexuality. I'll have to let it go at that for right now until the picture clarifies some more.

Puffer

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#464371 - 04/21/14 10:11 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
Post moved.


Edited by pufferfish (05/19/14 12:58 AM)

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#464875 - 05/01/14 09:23 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
Post moved



Edited by pufferfish (05/19/14 01:00 AM)

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#464877 - 05/01/14 09:39 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: lapchinj]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 326
Loc: Southeast USA
Originally Posted By: lapchinj
Hey OTF

Thanks for the kind words and the way you answered gives me some food for thought. It classifies you as a person and in a specific category of people.

I on the other hand I always considered myself and looked at myself as a boy liking boys. I hear you were rewarded by certain acts to him and something in return for you. I loved papasan and he could do no wrong and I knew (so I thought) that sons slept with their fathers. I loved that world, besides everyone told me that I would get interested in girls when I was old enough.

Yes, I agree 100% that friends whether straight, gay or trans are friends. It's too bad that after I left the game and entered the USAF I never had a friend aside from one person until I came here to MS. People were always acquaintances and I had to hide my past so nobody really got to know me not even my wife, but I told her 2-1/2 years ago.

Thanks for writing your answer to my question. I was afraid I was intruding on your privacy but your answer gives me a different way of thinking.

Thanks so much

Peace, Rainbows, Love, Healing & Hope
<3 XOXO
Jeff


I have really enjoyed this forum. It has been a great place to share feelings that are new and old. It was a bit odd to post in this section for gay and bisexuals, but the SSA topics were active here. As an accepting group of people here, you all have made me feel comfortable.

Not sure what this means exactly, but sex, for the sake of sex, is just skin rubbing on skin. Thinking back on my CSA, I admit to idolizing my a user and enjoying most of the sex. I thought I was loved and becoming a man. I thought as a damaged child of abusive parents.

Now the whole SSA thing feels diffused. It just does not matter. It was skin rubbing skin, nature took its course. It helps with the past feelings of shame. There is no reason for it.

It is liberating to come here and explore the thoughts, write out some things and look at my words.

Thanks for letting me ramble.
_________________________
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.

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#464880 - 05/01/14 10:06 PM Re: SSA and Sexual Orientation [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
Post moved


Edited by pufferfish (05/19/14 12:59 AM)

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