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#438839 - 06/21/13 05:18 PM Details Wanted including from Joe Smith
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Hi All,
Just had an exchange with Joe Smith, and he commented about me wanting more details, that it was tough.

Here's the deal: I have no clue about your inner workings if you've been abused, other than what I have read here.

Therefore, yes, I want EVERY detail about what a man thinks from the moment he wakes up in the morning until the next morning when he wakes up again.

Such as: I don't want to get out of bed, it's raining & rain is a trigger.

Or, I havea full schedule today, I'm already behind, let's get on project number 1.

Or: I'd like to date, that girl over by the meat case looks nice, but what will she say if I walk over? Will she be able to tell I'be been abused? Or what if she want to touch me? "Love" is yucky....
Yuck! I'd rather be alone. Maybe I'll just watch her and see what she does. Maybe she'll wander over here and say "hi" to me. Maybe I'll leave the store first.

Or: If that guy says one more thing impugning my manhood, I'm going to hit him in the jaw. He better hope that's all I do.

Whatever you men are thinking!
Spill it!

D.
_________________________
Female.

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#438847 - 06/21/13 06:08 PM Re: Details Wanted including from Joe Smith [Re: Disappointed]
newground Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 788
Loc: michigan
hi disappointed
i hope you dont feel all alone in wanting information, and yes it is hard to put it in words because so often there seems to be no thought process it is so much more about feelings and particularly fear. that is for me anyway. things that remind us of "that time" or worse "those times " cause feelings that seem impossible to control. these things build in us over a lifetime little decisions made along the way become the base for our autopilot so to speak undoing these things can be very difficult. I hope that helps some
Jeff
_________________________
Either I will find a way, or I will make one.
Philip Sidney

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#438849 - 06/21/13 06:54 PM Re: Details Wanted including from Joe Smith [Re: Disappointed]
GoldStone Offline


Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 220
Loc: Far East
I'm with you Disappointed. If my partner were CSA, I'd want the same information.

And I'm lucky to have a partner like that who will listen and patiently try to understand, and not pretend she understands when she doesn't.

But I'm a talker. Not all men are.

Best of luck.

(btw don't know who Joe is or if this thread is part of some larger conversation...just responding to what you said.)

goldstone

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#438869 - 06/22/13 12:44 AM Re: Details Wanted including from Joe Smith [Re: Disappointed]
trytry Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/13
Posts: 36
Loc: Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: Disappointed

Therefore, yes, I want EVERY detail about what a man thinks from the moment he wakes up in the morning until the next morning when he wakes up again.


In all honesty it would probably take me weeks to write down everything I think about in a day, anxiety (constantly thinking about the "what if's" and every possible solution to every situation I could find myself in) mixed with ADD really doesn't give me any time to stop thinking. While I may look relaxed my mind is racing faster than I would've ever thought possible, even in my sleep I have nightmares every night, so bad that I only tell people the small, more "normal" parts of them. I always want to go out and do fun things, enjoy the things people normally are able to enjoy, but I always tell myself ".. after you're done doing that you're just going to go back to the terrible life you have, so what's the point?..." so I end up doing the same thing every day, nothing. Constantly feeling unworthy of anyone's time, incredible amount of stress, can never accept any compliments, etc.

These are all things that nobody else sees (there's so much more too), I always put on that fake smile and laugh just like most of the guys here...

Not sure if this is anything you're asking about or if I'm just rambling on but that's pretty much an average day for me, I wish I had more positive/optimistic things to say lol! But I guess it is what it is...

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#440039 - 07/04/13 09:53 AM Re: Details Wanted including from Joe Smith [Re: Disappointed]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Hi Michael and TryTry,

Yes, these are the EXACT kinds of things I want to know. My friend says he doesn't like people close to him. How can he work that all the time?

I can't ride horses all the time, but that doesn't mean I don't have fun when I do.

But, yes, TRy TRy, if you could write in more detail, even more specifics, that would be super.

And to Michael, JoeSmith is a new guy here who posted in introductions and one other place. So since girls can't post in other departments, I posted here!!!!!!!

D.
_________________________
Female.

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#440138 - 07/05/13 03:14 PM Re: Details Wanted including from Joe Smith [Re: Disappointed]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
Hi Disappointed.

I'm not sure if I can give all the details you'd want, but here are some things that I've thought throughout the course of recovery. Generally the frequency these things have come up is a direct result of how much recovery I've done, ie the time I've spent understanding myself, working through said feelings etc. Yes, they still occur, but much less frequently.

In a public place:

inner "and the crowd walks past the uggly fellow"

In a crowd, ---- fear, unreasoning, feeling physically vulnerable as if I have a targit on my chest, can't look less than compitant, don't draw attention.

touch, gnum, well I can stand it if I studdedly ignore it.

Cigarette smoke, 90's girl pop, cheap perfume, trigger, ---- threat, as though someone is standing over me with a knife.

evaluating my own work, be that writing, singing whatever: worthless, crap.

any sort of self assessment, ---- worthless, uggly.

Bad days: silence, a feeling of greyness and apathy, "what is the point when I'm worthless?"

If I recieve a complement:what a kind person to tolerate me.

sexist statements about men, eg, men are after one thing, women are vulernabl (especially about young teenaged girls): threatened, angry, so your condoning what happened to me?

Nudity of any sort (even not wearing a T shirt: panic, shear, visseral, ---- like being chased.
reference to s/x: disgust, distate, like tasting a lemmon.

More explicite material, especially on film, discomfort leading to fear, like talking to someone who starts casually mentioning murder and violence and intollerant attitudes to the point that you become physically worried for your life.

having an e//////n unprompted, vulnerable, afraid.

Thinking about making friends, meeting new people: well people won't tolerate me.

Thinking about any sort of loving relationship with a partner/falling in love: pain, as though I'm looking down at a missing limb that can't be mended, ---- well I'll need to get used to it.

seeing couples together in a casually affectionate way/hearing about weddings: jealousyy, often extreme, desire to avoid.

Recovery: a process of understanding where I know about these reactions to things and so understand what I! am doing, and that for instance my feelings of worthlessness are utterly unreliable, an unwillingness to let what I feel interfere with the rest of life.

Acceptance: learning the difference betwene what I can and cannot change, ---- though it's surprising how much of the latter there is, and yet how much accepting I cannot change things actually makes things change by being less of a problem.

Of course, all this applies only to myself, (and even then only occasionally), but still I hope some at the least is vaguely useful.

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#440409 - 07/08/13 06:48 PM Re: Details Wanted including from Joe Smith [Re: Disappointed]
sugarbaby Offline


Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 362
Great question Disappointed!

Thank you Dark - that is eye opening!

" like being chased." - The panic my H gets when a woman hits on him is like that. I can tell when something happens because he is so out of breath fearful and he has that wild/scared look in his eyes. It's like he was chased and he runs to me for a safety zone.

You know what is odd about that is, when that happens, I get pissed. But not at him. I get bad at her, but not in a jealous way. I get mad in a "how dare you scare him like that" way.



Edited by sugarbaby (07/08/13 06:59 PM)

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#440419 - 07/08/13 10:24 PM Re: Details Wanted including from Joe Smith [Re: Disappointed]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Yes, Dark Empathy, that is helpful.

Thank you,
D.
_________________________
Female.

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#440431 - 07/09/13 04:50 AM Re: Details Wanted including from Joe Smith [Re: Disappointed]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
Glad some of this helps.

@sugarbaby, for me at least, "hitting on" is just an alien concept. either a woman is just a friend, and I treat her no differently to how I'd treat a man, or if she engages in s/xual teasing then I'm triggered, ---- badly, considdeering that my abuse was centered around such things.

Often I wish someone would just say "I like you" or "would you like to be more than friends" but that doesn't happen, or at least not to me.

Certainly on the occasions when someone has thought! someone was interested in me, I've not picked up anything at all beyond basic friendship.

The odd thing is I do sometimes wonder if a positive experience of physical affection or love making would help with my genophobia, since for me there is absolutely nothing comparable, but then again that's an academic idea anyway, hence why these days my attitude is to ignore the hole thing as much as possible, indeed I often wish I had no libido at all and if it weren't for the fact that it'd dangerously affect my voice I'd considder medical castration.

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#440451 - 07/09/13 10:55 AM Re: Details Wanted including from Joe Smith [Re: Disappointed]
sugarbaby Offline


Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 362
I hadn't thought to mention this but in my H's case these situations occasionally happen at his work. So, in reality it is not expected and for him very unpleasant, inappropriate behavior, he is then surprised about.

I think that is part of his shock with it.

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#440455 - 07/09/13 12:25 PM Re: Details Wanted including from Joe Smith [Re: Disappointed]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5945
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
D,

If you could be more specific, for instance, in asking how a survivor feels in a given situation, like flirting or sexual advances from a source other than the spouse or relational person. In my own experience as a unrecovered survivor decades ago, the initial reaction to an inappropriate sexual advance was interest, perhaps an exchange or two that determined the level of interest, then a strong emotional reaction, either toward the advancement or away. This would be towards women or men. Then I was in a committed relationship and the sexual advancement occurred, I would oppose it using self effacing comments and thoughts, but I would use porn and fantasy. When I entered into recovery, I was able to understand the issues behind needing that intimate access and was able to mature those feelings of loneliness and fear of abandonment into healthy boundaries so that my spouse and I now enjoy a relationship free of temptations including sexual advances and porn.

The information leads to a formula, the formula can be populated to include additional information as well as resolutions. In taking a look at survivor behavior, it can be surmised that some types of triggers are reacted to in similar ways. Unwanted attention, difficult situations whether in relationships, geographical places or sabotaging internal workings create feelings of isolation, destruction and abandonment. These then need to be reacted to, either with coping mechanisms like porn, cheating, alcohol or drugs, or eating disorder. The coping mechanism(s) allows the survivor to continue to function, even achieve seemingly improbable things. What it also does is burn though our resources, those emotional resources that allow us to be achieve or be consistent or simply to be aware of ourselves and others. When those resources are used before they can be replenished, we can become lethargic, impotent, distracted or the opposite, we can rely on adrenaline to become boisterous, playful and competitive. Conversely, triggers can be reacted to with dissociation, disconnecting from reality into fantasy or "switching" so that another part of our personality can handle the situation. DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder, is a fairly new area of treatment and can be difficult to diagnose.

Trying to discern that process can be frustrating. We caution supporters to be themselves, to be informed but not authoritative so that the survivor is not tempted to be learned helpless, allowing the supporter to be the conscience or the boundary. It is a difficult situation, being involved with someone who has changed, perhaps dramatically since the beginning of a relationship experience. The survivor that goes into recovery many times is not the person who continues through it nor who may come out from it. Edgy risk taking, romantic dreamers or plucky silliness may mature into more communal roles, grounded in sincere sympathizers and sensitive men with proper boundaries that can feel exclusive.

Please know that supporters in a relationship are a fundamental part of survivor recovery because they continue to provide a safe, non challenging environment for healing. This environment is crucial to recovery and can take months and years of patient supporting and waiting. That is why it is imperative to the supporter to find support locally and globally. Support groups, one on one therapy, cyber support such as MaleSurvivor and other sites that allow healthy exchange of the survivor/supporter, supporter/supporter relationship to help supporters understand and have patience, create productive boundaries that support and encourage healing, considering the health and safety of the supporter in a relationship with a potentially abusive or infidelitous survivor and the feasibility in the relationship continuing, allowing the survivor to perceive the best in the supporter as well as the supporter to be at his or her best.


Edited by SamV (07/09/13 12:36 PM)
_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#440641 - 07/11/13 11:14 AM Re: Details Wanted including from Joe Smith [Re: Disappointed]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Dear Sam,
That's the point: It's another world, so I'm interested in specifics on anything. FOR EXAMPLE only:

1. Why is he a recluse at home? He works, very successful, but at home, only has 2 people I know of that he lets set foot in the place.

2. He had alters. His youngest alter I know of likes to talk to me. He's fusing. But he recently told me, the reason he is slow to give me money - even if he owes it to me for work - was because it was fun. Now why is it fun to stiff me?! To him it's a game. If I get the money, I win, he loses. If he keeps his money, he wins, I lose. How insane!

His behavior is different than mine in almost every way.

Another example:

Why does he have ants in his pants? He's always in a hurry to go do this or go do that. He's very overscheduled. He complains about it, but still does it. Very intentional. What is that about? Okay, trying to stay too busy to have time to think. Got it.

D.
_________________________
Female.

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#441030 - 07/16/13 08:32 AM Re: Details Wanted including from Joe Smith [Re: Disappointed]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
Hi D.

I don't know how much I can say about this but I'll try. I've had no experience of Alters, so to me that sort of behaviour just seems as incomprehensibe as it likely does to you, indeed "childish" in it's most literal sense.

With isolating however, one thing at least for me is that people take work. I can deal with people, indeed I can get on stage and perform at people or give a lecture at an international conference, indeed using social skills and applied empathy to get people on side is one thing I'm good at and if you met me in person doubtless you'd think I was an absolute extravert and loved others company. Indeed, one counsellor I met for a first meeting, after a half hour of pleasant conversation, mild humour and friendliness actually asked me "why do you need counseling?" and it was only at that point that I realized what I was doing and forceably stopped.

This isn't to say it's false or putting up a front, it's just applying a set of learned skills in a given situation, much as someone who was an expert chess player but awkward at goodness knows how many other things would be a very different person across the chess board to how they'd be the rest of the time.

Given however that (honest though it is ), for me, interacting with people is a use of carefully learnt social skills and empathy, it is work. There is no other way of saying it, it's actually tiring!

to relax, recharge or whatever, for myself and doubtless for other intraverts too it's being alone does it. Being alone there is nobody to need to practice those skills for and I get to just be on my own resources, enjoyingreading, writing or whatever.

I've actually noticed quite often among couples one will be intravert and one extravert. this is certainly how my parents are. My mum, like me can apply! all the social skills and empathy, but in order to actually relax needs to be alone. My dad on the other hand actually enjoys! other company and will actively seak it out, indeed it's that something of a family joke that if my dad goes to the shops or similar and doesn't come back for a while we say "oh he's met someone to talk to"

Of course however when you add in abuse, that certain amount of necessary isolation to relax can get twisted, ecause isolation is for an intravert quite addictive, and I've certainly been guilty of this myself, not speeking to others for four or five days straight.

Of course I did realize this, and while I will admit I don't always take dealing with people with good grace I do try since I am aware how easy it is to get overcome with the ease of not dealing with anyone, especially when there are other things, phobias, depresison etc, not to mention apathy which get in the way.

As regards overscheduling, I know for me at least that would be one of a few things. Either it could be simply not noticiing how much I was taking on through having my mind on other things, then suddenly realizing. Also however it could be an attempt to do things for others. I know myself it is much easier for me to do something for another person than myself, thus if you asked me to do a job I'd likely take it as a complement and work to the best of my ability to do it, even if it wasn't practical for me to.

Equally, it could be as you said, another form of isolation.

I do hope some of this is helpful. Of course this is most often based on me, and thus I don't know how much applies elsewhere, but still I hope you some of it gives you an idea.

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#442976 - 08/01/13 11:50 PM Re: Details Wanted including from Joe Smith [Re: Disappointed]
Disappointed Offline


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 540
Loc: U.S.A.
Dear D.E.,
Your thoughts were very helpful. I believe you're right. People are work! He needs the rest.

And yes, sometimes he's childish. He has a child alter!

D
_________________________
Female.

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