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#435072 - 05/18/13 07:31 PM Some Of Your Memories Are Just So......
BraveFalcon Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/25/13
Posts: 1096
Loc: The ATL
My mom just really fucking pissed me off! I've been here on vacation in Tybee Island, GA with my parents since Thursday. Everything has been great. They've paid for everything. They've bought my meals, etc. I can't complain about any of that and I'm not an ingrate. I appreciate all of those things.

One of the things I've mentioned here from time to time is that when I disclosed to my mother about 18 years ago, it was obvious she didn't want to believe me. I guess because that would have made her feel like she wasn't doing her job as a mother and that hurt to badly for her to accept. She didn't outright accuse me of lying but in so many words she questioned whether my memories could have really been reliable. It devastated me at the time but I've moved past it and forgiven her.

Tonight I was in the car with them and we were talking about past vacations we've been on, including vacations we took when I was little. For some reason, I thought we had brought our old cat, Charlie, on one of those vacations and my parents were adamant that we hadn't. When I nearly insisted that we had my mom said, "Oh please Ken! Some of your memories are just so....." then she didn't finish her sentence.

I knew exactly what the fuck she was talking about. I knew what she was insinuating and I knew what she was back-handedly dredging up. All I wanted to do was say "Well, maybe Charlie didn't come with us on vacation but I was definitely molested by teenagers in our neighborhood! Now let me out of the car! I'm fucking walking the rest of the way back in the rain!"

Of course I didn't say any of that shit. I just bit back on my anger and fucking swallowed it. Since then I have just been stewing and steaming and trying to calm down inside. It's been a long time since my mother has triggered me this badly. I am so fucking pissed right now! My only recourse is to get more shitfaced than I already am, which I am working on at the moment. Fucking hell. Take care all. Peace,

Ken


Edited by BraveFalcon (05/18/13 07:34 PM)

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#435074 - 05/18/13 08:00 PM Re: Some Of Your Memories Are Just So...... [Re: BraveFalcon]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3378
Loc: somewhere in Africa
yeah, Ken - my mom was like that too.

i never revealed the CSA to her - or confronted her about her complicity since she lived in the same house while it was happening and she had to know. but other things i have mentioned that i KNOW happened she has refused to admit ever occurred. she really believes her version of her edited and censored family history. she is unable to face the truth. she only believes in what is NICE!

IT IS CALLED DENIAL.

i feel for you. it can make you crazy. you know the truth. you are the more healthy one in this situation. ironic, aint it?
lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#435075 - 05/18/13 08:00 PM Re: Some Of Your Memories Are Just So...... [Re: BraveFalcon]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3333
Loc: O Kanada
i completely get it.

i go through almost the same thing with my mother.

she is either insensitive, or dismissive, or minimizing, or she insinuates that my memory is flawed.

that is IF i can get her to talk about it at all.

every time i get her to admit that something sexual happened to me, if i insist it happened, she simply says it's the first time she heard about it. every time i bring it up, she claims to be previously unaware.
it gets tedious how predictable her mental illness is.

this is after over two decades of disclosure from me.

my dad was the same, but recently he is accepting and acknowledging my story. allowing me to talk about it without being defensive.

i think you are right.
it is difficult for parents to admit they failed to protect their children from harm.
it does reflect on their own self image as mother or father.

my recovery/survival does not depend on my parents' acceptance of my abuse, and their part in it.

however, my relationship with my parents has everything to do with how they choose to react to my disclosure, my experience, and my need to discuss it with my parents. including my feelings of shame, blame, betrayal, abandonment, guilt, and forgiveness.
no meaningful dialogue means no intimate relationship.
that means "see you later"...
happy birthday, merry christmas, weddings, funerals, have a nice day.

throughout life's hard lessons, i have learned to distinguish between friends and associates.
i have also had to learn the difference between family and relatives.

sadly, sometimes even parents are nothing more than relatives, and hardly ever are they friends.

if you ask for help, you get advice.
if you ask for assistance, you get management.
if you ask for financing, you get a corporate takeover.
that's on a good day.
most often you get the "tough love" "sink or swim" approach to parenting.
if they do nothing to help, the kid will figure it out for himself and become independent.

once i lowered my expectations, i was able to love my parents for who they really are.
flawed humans, fellow travellers, chance companions, accidental associates.
i had to meet my emotional needs elsewhere.

i started to hate them a lot less, and they have responded positively.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#435086 - 05/18/13 10:17 PM Re: Some Of Your Memories Are Just So...... [Re: BraveFalcon]
takingitslow Offline


Registered: 09/12/12
Posts: 59
Loc: UK
I don't take any shit from my parents when they talk about my abuse. They are allowed to ask questions and talk about it with me but one wrong word or phrase and I go ape shit at them telling them they're wrong and I get very nasty.

Like my mother saying 'well I only wish you had told us when you were 14.' So I replied no how dare you blame the victim this is all my fucking perp's fault and you know what- where were you when I was being abused? you didn't protect me. Dad being a shit Dad enabled me to be groomed. My mother replied 'you cant blame us'. So I said well you know what you cant say the shit you say the only difference is mine has some truth to it. Mum said I had to apologise I said no im not apologising I have no reason to apologise so my Mum backed down and my Dad doesnt talk to me at all as he knows I have daggers in my words if he pisses me off. But to be fair he is useless and selfish so no good content ever leaves his mouth just self interest and cold no affection or emotion.

My mother is not talking to me at the moment because of my gambling addiction she wanted to control my finances and I said no one will ever control me again. Leave me alone my money I ll do whatever I want Im not subject to you controlling it.

Basically my approach is don't give any leeway to people talking to you about your abuse. They say something wrong I fucking tell them and get angry. Teach them a fucking lesson so next time they try to talk to me about csa or whatever they learn to expect verbal abuse and me being bad if they say something wrong. I highlight the wrong thing they say then I give them abuse for using it like saying how dare you talk like that about my csa you can fuck off until you do some research of it that is how you really feel get out my life. Im open to talking about csa but under my rules if the person dont like it they can do one.

Dan sorry Im still abit wound up and I've sort of re-triggered myself. Not meant to lead into a rant I wanted to give advice but once I started to think my own feelings to my parents took over.

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#435089 - 05/18/13 10:40 PM Re: Some Of Your Memories Are Just So...... [Re: BraveFalcon]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1513
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: BraveFalcon
I am so fucking pissed right now! My only recourse is to get more shitfaced than I already am, which I am working on at the moment. Fucking hell.

Hey Ken,

So sorry you had that interaction with your mother. How infuriating. I've never had to deal with such things because I cut my parents out of my life long before I really started to deal with my CSA experience.

Let this be a reminder that spending time with your Mom will probably always run the risk of such comments. Consider that its your choice when and how you allow such family gatherings to occur, and have an escape plan when they do. Put yourself in control of these situations.

btw, getting shitfaced never made things better for me, always worse.

Jude
_________________________
I went back to the doctor
To get another shrink.
I sit and tell him about my weekend,
But he never betrays what he thinks.
Can you see the real me, doctor?.
The Who

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#435093 - 05/18/13 11:39 PM Re: Some Of Your Memories Are Just So...... [Re: takingitslow]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3333
Loc: O Kanada
dear taking it slow,

your parents sound so much like mine, but with time and training provided by you, i am sure they will get better.

they will have to.

mine did.

you already have proven your ability to defend your boundaries and borders against invaders and infiltraitors. your parents will just have to catch up or be left behind.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#435094 - 05/18/13 11:52 PM Re: Some Of Your Memories Are Just So...... [Re: BraveFalcon]
BraveFalcon Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/25/13
Posts: 1096
Loc: The ATL
Ok, update time. As soon as I finished leaving my first post to this thread I went to dinner with my parents and my aunt M. During our dinner the subject of my school age years came up. I brought up the fact that if I hadn't gone to a small private school in 7th-12th grade that I probably would have dropped out before getting my diploma. (I would have. I was far to stupid and sped-tastic to have passed in a normal public school.) Then I brought up the fact that I probably also would have killed myself and started to half-jokingly, almost gleefully describe the ways in which I fantasized about killing myself in the 6th grade.

Needless to say, this made everyone at the table squirm. My aunt M desperately tried to change the subject but I kept at it. I was lashing out, and I knew it. It wasn't subconscious or passive, I was directly lashing out by bringing up my 6th grade suicide ideation at the dinner table because of what my mom had said earlier in the car.

Before we had left for dinner, I texted my brother, W, and asked him if he remembered us bringing Charlie with us on one of our vacations to New Hampshire. Right before our dinner was over , W finally texted me back and said that he did vaguely remember something like that. Then, as I got up from the table, I told my parents what W had said and they both protested again that it couldn't have been true. At that point I got up from the table and as I walked away I said, "Yeah, none of my childhood memories are reliable, are they?" I don't think they heard me say that.

The place we ate was only about five blocks from where my aunt M and uncle C live and we had all walked up there. My aunt had ridden her bike. My aunt M and I beat everyone else back to her house and before my parents got there, I broke down to her. I disclosed to my aunt M about the same time I disclosed to my mom, about 18 years ago, but she and I haven't really talked about it since.

As soon as I got back to the house I broke down and apologized to aunt M for having been so inappropriate at the dinner table. I told her I was sorry, and I was, but told her I couldn't help it after what my mom had said. (I had to explain that to her also. She wasn't in the car with us when that conversation took place.) As could be expected, my aunt M was totally awesome and supportive about it. We didn't get to talk about it for long though, as my parents got back to the house only a few minutes later.

Anyway, thanks for the responses guys. I wish I could respond to everyone individually right now but I am tiered and smashed and it was all I could do to write this update. Hopefully this issue is dead now and there will be no need for further updates. Take care all. Laters,

Ken


Edited by BraveFalcon (05/19/13 12:08 AM)

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#435108 - 05/19/13 12:43 AM Re: Some Of Your Memories Are Just So...... [Re: BraveFalcon]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
I have to admit, Ken, your OP made ME squirm a bit...primarily because of my own stuff: parents in intransigent denial and, if you will, holding all the cards financially. I don't know whether to call it subtle or not-so-subtle control, but what's important is your feeling about it. To wit, "I'm not an ingrate." My impression is that they'd use that as emotional leverage.

So, your follow up about Aunt M made me feel a lot better about your situation. In short, I'm glad to hear you have someone in your corner. This is SUPPOSED to be a vacay, right? Go enjoy the beach!

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#435142 - 05/19/13 02:22 PM Re: Some Of Your Memories Are Just So...... [Re: BraveFalcon]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1308
Hey {{{Ken}}}...

Your situation has parallels I can certainly relate to. My own mom - like yours - could not look at what was happening to me - her own son. It took me a long time to find the grace that you expressed yourself in your opening post to this thread...

Quote:
...she didn't want to believe me. I guess because that would have made her feel like she wasn't doing her job as a mother and that hurt to badly for her to accept.

There is a tremendous amount of perception and grace in that comment. It attests to your ability to look beyond yourself and see how widespread and abstract the victimization can be. It is frustrating, and you may even want to get smashed about it - but at the end of the day, you have taken a very mature view of it.

I hope this isn't considered a hijack that I share my own stuff; I do it because I think it directly relates to your situation, Ken. When I confronted my mom over ten years ago, I asked her why - after answering honestly to her question if I was also a victim of this guy who was caught molesting other kids - why was it never discussed again. And why was I put back with him and asked to temper his sexual appetites with the other victims (so strange but so true)? Her answer? She didn't remember that conversation! Wow! Could *I* have imagined things? But there was no way! I remember it SO well - sitting on a basement bar stool with her, watching my own size 8 brown penny loafers swing below me as I answered, "Well... maybe just s little. But only to see why he was doing it. I swear. Please don't tell dad! Please!" I remember every single detail of that conversation she knew nothing about...

She didn't tell my dad. She didn't tell anyone. She didn't even tell herself. She just packed it up and blocked it out. It was when I confronted her and she just didn't recall - the look of shock in her face - "You were ... WHAT?" - that I realized that his victims were not just the sexual ones.

Like with you, I found a wonderful grace knowing that she - like me - was just finding her own way. It hurt her so much, she couldn't even accept it in the sphere of reality. A fault? Yes. A character flaw? Perhaps.

But it hurt her so much - that she did THAT. Because she LOVED me so much she couldn't stand the pain of even thinking what he did to me. She loved me SO much, she just ... forgot. And I love her so much, I just forgave.
_________________________



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#435144 - 05/19/13 02:46 PM Re: Some Of Your Memories Are Just So...... [Re: Chase Eric]
Life's A Dream Offline


Registered: 08/25/11
Posts: 886
Loc: Bouvet Island
Jennifer Freyd refers to this as "Betrayal Blindness". She's written a book called "Blind to Betrayal: Why We Fool Ourselves We Aren't Being Fooled" about it. Amazing Stanford graduate PHD professor of Psychology, amazing author, and CSA survivor herself. I highly recommend her stuff.

When my mom recently did her usual thing that she does when I bring up my own CSA- which is to pretend to be interested, but then suddenly and very rudely change the subject and cut me off- except this time, she wasn't even subtle about it- she was practically yelling at me to shut up and clamping her hands over her ears- I finally interjected and told her "You realize talking about this upsets you more than it upsets me? Do you not see how selfish that is? I don't blame you for what happened. But at the same time, you don't have to live every day with the affects of it; I do." That day was kind of a day of reckoning for me, to formally make it clear to her why it is I don't tell her how my therapy sessions are going, or what I talk about on this site. What's the bloody point, if she's going to put her own feelings ahead of my well-being, minimize, and deny everything?


Edited by Life's A Dream (05/19/13 02:47 PM)

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