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#434743 - 05/15/13 12:24 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
bodyguard8367 Offline
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Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
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Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/27/14 03:14 PM)

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#434744 - 05/15/13 12:25 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
bodyguard8367 Offline
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Registered: 05/16/12
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Edited by bodyguard8367 (05/15/13 12:25 PM)
Edit Reason: Duplicate post..oops!

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#435005 - 05/17/13 08:42 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
pufferfish Offline
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Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6818
Loc: USA
Why do I feel a need to answer this?

As a 12-year-old boy I went through something very horrible. I don't urge people to read the story because it is apparently damaging to even read it. But I felt then and I still feel I was abandoned to what happened. I was abandoned by the Boy Scouts of America, whose camp it was. The abuser had an official position there. His name has been redacted from the records released by the Boy Scouts and from other records. I was abandoned by the other boys who abused me there. I was abandoned by my parents who left me there (even though it was apparently unintentional it was perceived by me as an abandonment issue). After I remembered what happened there a victim's advocate told my story to the FBI and they refused to have anything to do with it*. So... I was terribly damaged, whatever the reason. I have experienced lots of pain of different kinds. I could never be the same. I could never be or do lots of things. When other boys and teachers later perceived my damage, they shunned and rejected me. Life with friends and family became terribly difficult. So here I am many years later, trying to figure out what happened to me when I was 12. I have spent thousands of dollars of my own money for psychotherapy (in addition to insurance). Nobody seems to care. I'm trying to figure out if there was a scheme that went beyond the abuse of the one sociopathic man who seemed to have orchestrated all of that abuse. I have limited resources for searching and I have reason to believe that what happened to me and to many other boys has been covered up. Where can I go for information about it? My gut feeling is that it must have happened to lots of other children and that I alone have escaped to tell about it.

Puffer

*I have the letter the victim's advocate wrote me about it.

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#435009 - 05/17/13 09:48 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
cant_remember Offline
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Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1039
(((( Puffer ))))

That victim advocate letter is from what year?

Cant
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#435010 - 05/17/13 09:52 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3087
Loc: O Kanada
i feel so much the same as you, puffer.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#435013 - 05/17/13 10:25 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
pufferfish Offline
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Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6818
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: cant_remember

That victim advocate letter is from what year?


I think it's 1988. It's not in front of me right now. It was only a few years after I remembered it.

Puffer

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#435610 - 05/23/13 08:24 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
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Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6818
Loc: USA
This post is a documentation from 3 highly reliable books that LSD was used on children in the general time period in which I was 12-years-old. I have documented other procedures in previous posts.

I can't actually prove that I was an experimental subject when I was abused at the camp as a twelve-year-old boy in the summer camp. But I have found sources that show that they were thinking about doing the stuff I was subjected to.

In a reliable book: A Question of Torture: CIA Inerrogation, From the Cold War to the War on Terror, by Alfred W. McCoy. It claims that hallucinogens were given to children in summer camps
http://www.amazon.com/Question-Torture-Interrogation-American-Project/dp/0805082484/
Originally Posted By: McCoy 2003, page 29
pumped hallucinogins into children in summer camp


That was in the time frame in which I was a 12-year-old boy and I think I received LSD in summer camp. But the wording suggests that LSD was also given to other children in the same or other summer camps. I have no other knowledge of this. Does the word "pumped" imply that injection was the method of administering the drug? I don't know.

Here is a review of Alfred W. McCoy's book from Amazon.com:
Originally Posted By: Douglas S. Wood in: VINE™ VOICE

Alfred McCoy, a distinguished professor of history at the University of Wisconsin, has long been a thorn in the side of the CIA. In the pages of this brief book McCoy traces the history of modern torture techniques as developed and used by the CIA. The book demonstrates that the Abu Ghraib abuses have roots far beyond the Bush years. The techniques used there are standard operating procedure.

Sensory deprivation, self-infiction of pain, and assault on the cultural mores of the victim are the hallmarks of the techniques. Read this book and then take one look at the infamous Abu Ghraib pictures and you will understand with certainty that the responsibility goes well beyond Lynndie England and the prison guard grunts. They did not come up with these techniques.

McCoy briefly relates that the US historically engaged in systematic torture in the Vietnam Phoenix program and taught Central American governments the CIA methods, to name just two examples. This history was largely ignored in discussions of Abu Ghraib as some commentators simply refused to believe that Americans would do such things.

But does torture work? And if it does, should we use it?

With respect to the efficacy of torture, McCoy quotes a 4th century C.E. Roman legal scholar Ulpian: "the strong will resist and the weak will say anything to end the pain." McCoy also destroys the silly hypotheses about the atomic bomb in Times Square used to justify torture.

McCoy has explained why we, in whose name this torture is performed, should oppose it:

"There's an absolute ban on torture for a very good reason. Torture taps into the deepest recesses, unexplored recesses of human consciousness, where creation and destruction coexist, where the infinite human capacity for kindness and infinite human capacity for cruelty coexist, and it has a powerful perverse appeal, and once it starts, both the perpetrators and the powerful who order them, let it spread, and it spreads out of control."

Highly recommended.




I found another reference to secret use of LSD on children in the book, ACID: A New Secret History of LSD, by David Black, Ken Thomas.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0802130623/

Here is a quote from this book which substantiates my claim:
Originally Posted By: ACID: A New Secret History of LSD by David Black, page 42
At one stage they even considered supplementing the roster of prostitutes with 12-year-old boys but, as one ex-agency source assured John Marks, even in the CIA mind control department, 'the idea of a 12-year-old boy was more than anyone could stomach.'


This would be funny if it weren't so sad. Who can control the mind of a 12-year-old boy?

The context of this quote is that some high-level committee was talking about using LSD as a drug to manipulate human behavior. They set up a room in San Francisco where (female) prostitutes could administer sex and LSD in an attempt to produce blackmail photography. The room had two-way mirrors so they could observe and photograph the effects. They also had one of these in Greenwich Village in NY. They apparently considered using 12-year-old boys instead of or in addition to (adult female) prostitutes, but rejected the idea.

There is another book: The Search for the "Manchurian Candidate": The CIA and Mind Control: The Secret History of the Behavioral Sciences, by John D. Marks.

http://www.amazon.com/Search-Manchurian-Candidate-Behavioral-Sciences/dp/0393307948/

Originally Posted By: review by Reticuli of this book in Amazon.com
5.0 out of 5 stars Excellent Research. June 10, 2000


John Marks is an excellent researcher. MK Ultra is an extremely dark chapter in the history of the intelligence, military, and R&D community. There are some troubling insights that I feel compelled to repeat here. First, this covert community destroyed an enormous amount of their records and documentation on secret activities in the late 60's and early 70's. They obviously destroyed the most damning portion of the paper trail. Yet out of the relatively benign information still available, we get proof of unethical conduct and allusions of possible illegal acts. There is even a hint that research was conducted on microwaves, ultrasonic, and electrical stimulation of the brain. There's little or no information on what was discovered in *these* subjects, or even whether the activities were truly halted. We now have indication that the military just so happens to have data on the use of sub & ultra sonics in nonleathal weapons. It's possible that the information, and possibly even current MK Ultra influenced research, is still around. I've heard military personnel say most of the very sensitive research does not occur on the CIA operative level, but in subcontractors and middle management who keep their own research records and staff.

Didn't Sirhan Sirhan say he'd been in a hypnotic trance? Did he say this before MK Ultra was revealed, or after? I wonder...


Originally Posted By: John D. Marks in: The Search For the Manchurian Candidate
page 104

CIA in Berlin ... felt prostitutes could be a prime source of intelligence.
...
a good number of case officers wanted no part of homosexual entrapment operations. And to go a step further, he recalls one senior KGB man who told too many sexual jokes about young boys. "It didn't take too long to recognize that he was more than a little fascinated by youths,".....
....
'As a psychological observer, you're probably quite right. But what the hell are we going to do about it? Where are we going to get a twelve-year-old boy?'"

The source believes that if the Russian had had a taste for older men, U.S. intelligence might have mounted an operation, "but the idea of a twelve-year-old boy was just more just more than anybody could stomach."


I'm quoting these reputable sources to demonstrate that they were considering the use of the twelve-year-old boy with LSD in obtaining information from sources.

I was twelve-years-old at the time of my trauma. I believe that I may have been at least one of the boys they studied to produce their report. I believe I was also given LSD. I am suggesting that my abuser at summer camp used me as an experimental subject in pursuit of their objective of obtaining a mind control subject.

Puffer



Edited by pufferfish (05/28/13 11:16 AM)

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#443835 - 08/09/13 10:48 AM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6818
Loc: USA
It's me again!

I have found a book which really seems to pin down what happened to me that summer in 1951. The pattern of what happened seems to agree substantially with what happened to other children in that time period.

One 4-year-old girl was sold by her grandfather to the CIA for experimentation purposes. She went through terrible torture and programming to give her several dissociated identities. She is still alive today and has written a book which describes her ordeal and the work on other children. Her time frame begins in the same time as mine.

The book is:

A Nation Betrayed (The Chilling True Story of Secret Cold War Experiments Performed on Our Children and Other Innocent People), by Carol Rutz

So then, here was another child who experienced far worse than I did and in the same time frame. So, I am not crazy. I didn't make it up. My report is substantiated by the reports of others who were children and tortured and abused in the same way.

Don't buy the book from Amazon. It is available much more cheaply ($20) from the publisher's website:
Fidelity Publishing LLC.
P.O. Box 365
Grass Lake, MI 49240-0365

I can't tell you how much this encourages me.

My story is Pufferfish story part 5. (don't read it unless you are an adult and feeling strong)
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...9028#Post219028

Puffer






Edited by pufferfish (08/09/13 10:57 AM)

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#443861 - 08/09/13 04:39 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6818
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pufferfish

I have found a book which really seems to pin down what happened to me that summer in 1951. The pattern of what happened seems to agree substantially with what happened to other children in that time period.

The book is:

A Nation Betrayed (The Chilling True Story of Secret Cold War Experiments Performed on Our Children and Other Innocent People), by Carol Rutz


The man who abused me is never named, even though this book gives the names of many important officials, some with international reputations. It does talk about a mysterious individual whom the author calls "deleted". He was very important in all of those proceedings. "Deleted" began a course in hypnotism on July 2, 1951, she said. That was the Monday following the 2 weeks of terror I had experienced, ending the previous Saturday. That would have been good timing. He began the course by bragging about how he had free access to "intercourse" with a girl through using hypnotic suggestion.

So, the question is, why would a certain individual never be named in any of the books or resources, even though lots of other infamous people's names are freely given? Could it be that he had a name they were all afraid of releasing? I think that "deleted" was my abuser.

Puffer





Edited by pufferfish (08/09/13 04:49 PM)

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#443955 - 08/10/13 01:28 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
bodyguard8367 Offline
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Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/27/14 03:15 PM)

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