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#434758 - 05/15/13 02:49 PM The debate that rages on in my mind *PT*
Poorsoft Offline


Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 163
Dw posted a link to the 1-6 site about hunters stage of recovery, I have read plenty things about grieving, but nothing resonated me quite as much as that did (thanks DW).

Though I still feel in denial and I know the stages aren't neccasary in chronological order, I found this passage helpful
Quote:
When in the bargaining stage, many people find that a constant argument or civil war goes on in their heads: ‘It really happened.’ ‘No, it didn’t.’ ‘Yes, it did.’ This goes back and forth, seemingly forever. If you find this happening, you may find it useful to choose a side and write a letter to yourself or someone else arguing that point, making no attempt to be objective or to see both sides. Once that is done, write another letter arguing the opposite side. Pay attention to your body during the writing of each letter, and listen to what your emotions are telling you ‘(Abused Boys, p.105).


So I will do just that, write a letter to myself explaining both perspectives. I don't know how its going to turn out. I'm writing this as I go, so bare with me.

The suggestion says pick one side, but since I'm seeing both sides, I can't pick one just yet. Maybe I will be able to do that after writing...

I will write in no specific order; a letter stating that You were NOT abused and one stating You were abused

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#434759 - 05/15/13 02:54 PM Re: The debate that rages on in my mind *PT* [Re: Poorsoft]
Poorsoft Offline


Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 163
You were NOT abused

Dear Poorsoft,

I'm going to write one final appeal to you, that states that you were NOT abused. If you were, surely you would remember, right? The effects you state sound severe and if it was that severe you would at least have an idea. Come on, let's be realistic, are you not just doing this for a bit of attention?

It seems that you have the knowledge on this subject, as a therapist you have heard some things and you have learned certain things.

Let met tell you what happened, your mother was neurotic and your father did not believe in emotion. You were just a sensitive kid, who one day started to find himself alienated from his friends and you locked yourself away. This is a fantasy, you want to think you were, because it would justify the thoughts that rage on in your mind.

Perhaps poorsoft, you are just a normal guy who had a normal childhood. You want the guilt to be put to rest and this seems like your way out.

You even seem to be playing the role quite well, perhaps reading too much on the subject has caused you to act in those ways to prove to yourself that you were.

You're definetly not a bad person, but like you say; to consider all perspectives, you must think like them. Did you not just do that?

I'm out of steam, I'm getting pretty aggrovated arguing these points with you to be honest.

I'm not doubting you to protect you, I'm doing it to be real. Let's be honest, if you were; you have managed to get to this point today without needing to think about it. So it cant be that bad or even that.

You're just fucked up in the head my friend.

Regards,

You're self-destructing self concious

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#434762 - 05/15/13 03:15 PM Re: The debate that rages on in my mind *PT* [Re: Poorsoft]
Poorsoft Offline


Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 163
You were abused

Dear Poorsoft,

You were told by your therapist supervisor that you were in HUGE denial. You know you've been in denial, about what has always plagued you. Addmitingly, I've never heard you say "I'm in denial, I wonder what thats about." But you know you've been hiding something.

There is so much to write about that could point towards that it was CSA. How come you seem to think it was a certain person and it wasnt just once? You have attempted to rationalise things through logic and have even looked at the science behind it. If this was a labatory and you were trying to work out if this person was abused, all the evidence makes it less likely everyday that nothing happened.

You used to repeat to yourself, nothing happened, nothing happened, nothing happened. You felt sad, but happy, you blamed your problems on parental rifts, sibling rivilary and the delayed onset of puberty, which lead to some pretty rought times in school. But think back to those rough times, under the situation you lost your shit, you remember that feeling of fear in your heart when you ran into trouble at school? All normal people feel fear, but not so intensley, they don't respond the way you did.

You are crafty. Avoidant and you have mastered you're denial so much, that even you have forgotten what you were denying.

You believe that nuture has a much more significant effect than nature. You are a kind spirited person, with unique thoughts and interesting perspectives. People enjoy your company. You are not ugly either, even though you think yourself to be disgusting. Do you think most guys who had healthy childhoods; think they look disgusting? Do you think they ever felt the urge to crossdress at such a young age? Do you think normal individuals start 'exploring' themselves at age 9?

Did you not think it funny, that you have a madly addictive personality? Locked away in that room you've been, scared to go out (Which you blamed on being scared of certain people from school who tortured you). You cannot STOP smoking pot, you're body shape has been disorted.

Over the last 6 months, you've lost over 50lbs, ironic that the timing of this dramatic weight loss has come from this realisation. Why is it you want to 'return to who you are'?

Why have you struggled so hard to feel? And don't blame dad. You know he has love in his heart and he does show it and has. Your mother was a neurotic type, but she loves you deeply still, so does your brother and sister. Why can you not accept their love?

I think you know the answer, you're love and trust was betrayed. It was betrayed by so many people from your perspective, because it didn't stop. It didn't stop. It didn't stop.

You hate recieving compliments, you can't accept any positive praise and you always put yourself down so harshly.

We haven't even got to the things that have went on in that head of yours. Those thoughts, those horrific thoughts that made you feel like you were the worst person in the world, they do not MATCH you're personality at all. You are not secretly evil or bad, you have kindness in your heart and the will to help others. That is not the mark of an evil man, that is the mark of a good man who has evil inflicted upon.

Your thoughts were not your own, you were TOLD what to say. You were TOLD what would happen. How do you know that? I can't answer.

Why did you think you're mother was going to die all the time? Why did you fear for you're life and your family? Obsessive compulsive disorder to the scale you had, with touching door handles, checking locks, is not something a child in a healthy situation would do. Why did you not feel safe? Why at night did you make a wall around your bed with your teddies? Why did the dark plague you well into your late teens?

Fetishes. Diapers. COME ON. Why the hell would anyone feel the need to wear one for kicks? You said once that it made you feel safe, secure, euphoric. Maybe it was your way of going back to a time when you felt safe, before it all occured.

I don't need to give you a list of instances to prove that you were abused, I just need to ask you these rhetorical questions that you KNOW the answer too to prove my point.

You once asked, if you were not abused, then what caused these problems; do you really think a neuortic mother and an emotionaly cut off father would have the influence on all these after effects? How does that transpire into the thoughts? It makes no sense.

You know it to be true, but you are not ready to deal with it.

When you are ready, I'll be here ready to pick you up and dust you off once again.

Much love,

yourself

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#434823 - 05/16/13 04:19 AM Re: The debate that rages on in my mind *PT* [Re: Poorsoft]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3617
Loc: South-East Europe
Wow good job Poorsoft. I have all times such two sides present.
My T regularly reminds me to try starting conversation between those two, your letters reminded me on that, thanks!

Pero
_________________________
My story

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#434827 - 05/16/13 05:21 AM Re: The debate that rages on in my mind *PT* [Re: Poorsoft]
Life's A Dream Offline


Registered: 08/25/11
Posts: 886
Loc: Bouvet Island
Originally Posted By: Poorsoft
Dw posted a link to the 1-6 site about hunters stage of recovery, I have read plenty things about grieving, but nothing resonated me quite as much as that did (thanks DW).

Though I still feel in denial and I know the stages aren't neccasary in chronological order, I found this passage helpful
Quote:
When in the bargaining stage, many people find that a constant argument or civil war goes on in their heads: ‘It really happened.’ ‘No, it didn’t.’ ‘Yes, it did.’ This goes back and forth, seemingly forever. If you find this happening, you may find it useful to choose a side and write a letter to yourself or someone else arguing that point, making no attempt to be objective or to see both sides. Once that is done, write another letter arguing the opposite side. Pay attention to your body during the writing of each letter, and listen to what your emotions are telling you ‘(Abused Boys, p.105).


So I will do just that, write a letter to myself explaining both perspectives. I don't know how its going to turn out. I'm writing this as I go, so bare with me.

The suggestion says pick one side, but since I'm seeing both sides, I can't pick one just yet. Maybe I will be able to do that after writing...

I will write in no specific order; a letter stating that You were NOT abused and one stating You were abused





Sounds like an interesting tactic. I may just try this.

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#434828 - 05/16/13 05:50 AM Re: The debate that rages on in my mind *PT* [Re: Poorsoft]
Life's A Dream Offline


Registered: 08/25/11
Posts: 886
Loc: Bouvet Island
Originally Posted By: Poorsoft

Why did you think you're mother was going to die all the time? Why did you fear for you're life and your family? Obsessive compulsive disorder to the scale you had, with touching door handles, checking locks, is not something a child in a healthy situation would do. Why did you not feel safe? Why at night did you make a wall around your bed with your teddies? Why did the dark plague you well into your late teens?

Fetishes. Diapers. COME ON. Why the hell would anyone feel the need to wear one for kicks? You said once that it made you feel safe, secure, euphoric. Maybe it was your way of going back to a time when you felt safe, before it all occured.


WOAH EXACTLY, to a T, this is/was me. Except it was fear of my father dying rather than my mother. The massive, highly intricate OCD, making my bed into a walled off fortress up to this day, fear of the dark up to this day, and the diapers. The goddamn diapers. Why?! I hate that I have this same fetish! There is so little research on diaper fetishism or "adult baby syndrome" as some of the papers refer to it, that no one knows yet if it's evidence of CSA. But I happen to believe it very well may be. The preliminary research did find a pattern with a certain subset of diaper fetishists who were also (known) CSA survivors: they tended to develop the fetish very early on (about 4 years old for me), and tended to shun incorporating anything overtly sexual into their fantasies. I fit into that group myself. How about you?

Knowing we have such matching symptomology, maybe it would be helpful if I told you I'm not completely in the dark about whether or not I was abused. I can't explain my sexual fear of males at age 10, or why I see a man in my dreams and visual flashes, but there is one fully confirmed, corroborated instance of sexual abuse done to me at age 4, witnessed by my mom and older brother, by a 9 year old girl who molested me in my bedroom. It was an isolated, one time incident. And, like you, I feel adamant I was repeatedly sexually abused- I don't know why I feel adamant about it- but I do.

The similarities here are so eerie, poorsoft, that I hope you don't mind me lurking through all your posts to see if I can find any others.

P.S. I forgot to include the addictive personality. I am not an alcoholic. Alcohol was just the cheapest, easiest to get, for me. I am an anything-that-can-get-me-fucked-up-a-holic. I have to wonder, if you did what I did two years ago, and got completely sober for a long period of time, if you would start having body memories, recurring molestation dreams, and visual flashes, like what happened to me once I finally quit drinking.


Edited by Life's A Dream (05/16/13 06:11 AM)

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#434905 - 05/16/13 11:54 PM Re: The debate that rages on in my mind *PT* [Re: Life's A Dream]
Poorsoft Offline


Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 163
Originally Posted By: Life's A Dream

WOAH EXACTLY, to a T, this is/was me. Except it was fear of my father dying rather than my mother. The massive, highly intricate OCD, making my bed into a walled off fortress up to this day, fear of the dark up to this day, and the diapers. The goddamn diapers. Why?! I hate that I have this same fetish! There is so little research on diaper fetishism or "adult baby syndrome" as some of the papers refer to it, that no one knows yet if it's evidence of CSA. But I happen to believe it very well may be. The preliminary research did find a pattern with a certain subset of diaper fetishists who were also (known) CSA survivors: they tended to develop the fetish very early on (about 4 years old for me), and tended to shun incorporating anything overtly sexual into their fantasies. I fit into that group myself. How about you?
I remember being young and wanting to wear them, I remember seeing a pile of diapers at my uncles house and I really wanted to take them. I used to convince other kids in the street who had younger siblings that it would be fun to go wear one. Strange kid I was.

As for the research, you're absoultely right; it's astounding theres nothing concrete yet, but I think there is a great deal of shame and fear of people misunderstanding what it is. Theres no way I would tell people I had that fetish for the same reasons other people do; they think you're a paedophile because you like diapers.

Originally Posted By: Life's A Dream
Knowing we have such matching symptomology, maybe it would be helpful if I told you I'm not completely in the dark about whether or not I was abused. I can't explain my sexual fear of males at age 10, or why I see a man in my dreams and visual flashes, but there is one fully confirmed, corroborated instance of sexual abuse done to me at age 4, witnessed by my mom and older brother, by a 9 year old girl who molested me in my bedroom. It was an isolated, one time incident. And, like you, I feel adamant I was repeatedly sexually abused- I don't know why I feel adamant about it- but I do.
Its something that bugs me, maybe I just want it to have been repeated, maybe its some sort of fucked up attention seeking? I can't be sure, but one thing I do know is that you should listen to your gut-instinct; it's rarely wrong.

Originally Posted By: Life's A Dream
The similarities here are so eerie, poorsoft, that I hope you don't mind me lurking through all your posts to see if I can find any others.

P.S. I forgot to include the addictive personality. I am not an alcoholic. Alcohol was just the cheapest, easiest to get, for me. I am an anything-that-can-get-me-fucked-up-a-holic. I have to wonder, if you did what I did two years ago, and got completely sober for a long period of time, if you would start having body memories, recurring molestation dreams, and visual flashes, like what happened to me once I finally quit drinking.
Pretty much the same, I always get fucked up whatever way I could. I dont drink anymore, because well; pot is just better and you can function quite well in society with it, but not with alcohol. Regardless, before I smoked heavily I had weird dreams also.

Main dream was; I'm getting chased, they catch me - I try to hit them or fight them back but every single punch or blow I deliver turns to dust.

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#434921 - 05/17/13 02:48 AM Re: The debate that rages on in my mind *PT* [Re: Poorsoft]
Life's A Dream Offline


Registered: 08/25/11
Posts: 886
Loc: Bouvet Island
I'm going back to college in the fall, and I will be taking psychology. Although my aim is to get a degree in biochemistry, I'm torn, because I would really like to go into psychological research, especially on infantilism (diaper fetishism, for those who don't know) and dissociative amnesia for CSA. I would LOVE to finish my associates here in AZ, then move up to Eugene, Oregon and work with professor Jennifer Freyd. She's the daughter of the Freyds, who founded the "False Memory Syndrome Foundation". However, Jennifer started having flashbacks late in adulthood of her father molesting her and, ironically, her research into "Betrayal Trauma Theory" completely refutes the ideas of the FMSF. I would like to work with her in that research.

But diaper fetishism would also be an area of research I'd like to pioneer, since it's so ignored right now. A lot of the problem is that people with this fetish: 1. don't feel it's a problem, or 2. are too ashamed to talk about it, because of the unfortunate (inaccurate) stigma associating it with pedophilia. And, yeah, you're right, poorsoft. It doesn't necessarily seem to be a re-enactment of abuse. It seems to be a deliberate attempt at regression as a coping mechanism for, perhaps, CSA. Polls have been taken at Daily Diapers (which is the most accurate data you can get, unfortunately) and they indicate a lot of people with this fetish suffering childhood trauma. But most of them say it was other forms of trauma than CSA. Neglect, for instance.

What if it's a symptom of deeply repressed early CSA? Theoretically, that might explain why the DD polls indicate lower numbers of CSA being related to it: the majority of them may be repressing CSA. It's just a theory. But who knows?

Thanks for this post, poorsoft. I may try the same exercise, but I'll create my own post for it, so as not to hijack this one.

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#434960 - 05/17/13 01:09 PM Re: The debate that rages on in my mind *PT* [Re: Poorsoft]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3421
Loc: O Kanada
excellent self analysis.

have you tried using left/right hand writing letters to yourself. i find the left hand has a mind of it's own.
certainly not the the same output as the right hand, which is my write hand.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#434971 - 05/17/13 02:15 PM Re: The debate that rages on in my mind *PT* [Re: victor-victim]
Life's A Dream Offline


Registered: 08/25/11
Posts: 886
Loc: Bouvet Island
Originally Posted By: victor-victim
excellent self analysis.

have you tried using left/right hand writing letters to yourself. i find the left hand has a mind of it's own.
certainly not the the same output as the right hand, which is my write hand.


Yes. It does. Whether it's telling the truth or not is the question. Mine has made some believable claims, but then some outrageous claims (multiple serial abusers within my family growing up- from both sides of my family- as well as a neighbor down the street- highly unlikely).

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