Terry,

So sorry to hear of the rape in MD. I live in MD and just feel really bad for you.

The locker room issue is very timely for me. I recently joined a health club because my Dr insisted since I had a heart catherization several months ago. I always feel queasy walking into the locker room. In fact I haven't gone to the club in three weeks. I have to get my act together and go back. I'm planning on returning Monday. We'll see. Here come the queasies. I've talked to my therapist about this. I know intellectualy it should be no big deal. But as I walk in the club I feel light headed. Will it ever end?

The weird thing for me is that I have been doing a real dirty job for 25 years, and all the time I was in denial I showered at work with the guys - with no problems for me. I didn't feel threatened, use their nakedness in my fantasies of other men- I felt ok there.
But as soon as I started therapy and my recovery I stopped, and showered at home.
I can't explain it, to be honest I didn't even think about it until I read these posts and it just clicked with me.
Perhaps it's vanity, and my beer belly is embarrasing me, I hope so ?
Lloydy

Please don't take this Joe Jackson tune the wrong way. Whenever anyone goes to this topic, I can't get this song out of my head....

Joe Jackson
Real Men

Take your mind back - I don't know when
Sometime when it always seemed
To be just us and them
Girls that wore pink
And boys that wore blue
Boys that always grew up better men
Than me and you
What's a man now - what's a man mean
Is he rough or is he rugged
Is he cultural and clean
Now it's all change - it's got to change more
'Cause we think it's getting better
But nobody's really sure
And so it goes - go round again
But now and then we wonder who the real men are
See the nice boys - dancing in pairs
Golden earring golden tan
Blow-wave in the hair
Sure they're all straight - straight as a line
All the gays are macho
Can't you see their leather shine
You don't want to sound dumb - don't want to offend
So don't call me a faggot
Not unless you are a friend
Then if you're tall and handsome and strong
You can wear the uniform and I could play along
And so it goes - go round again
But now and then we wonder who the real men are
Time to get scared - time to change plan
Don't know how to treat a lady
Don't know how to be a man
Time to admit - what you call defeat
'Cause there's women running past you now
And you just drag your feet
Man makes a gun - man goes to war
Man can kill and man can drink
And man can take a whore
Kill all the blacks - kill all the reds
And if there's war between the sexes
Then there'll be no people left
And so it goes - go round again
But now and then we wonder who the real men are

You know, it might be a better idea to just get there early and go home to shower, thats what i used to do when i could afford to go to a gym. I know the teenager problem too, it makes you feel like people can see straight through you and see what your "really" like. But thats BS, your fine. And the guys who are hanging around naked are probably just as shallow about thier manhood as well. Thump your chest, and just go, you dont have to give a damn about what they think. When you reach a certain point, stereotypes shrink away, and wisdom starts to replace it. Everything you take for gratned that this society teaches you is warped by the ideology of america. Your body is not something to be ashamed of, it is something to be proud of, a marvel of biological perfection, you dont have to prove its better or worse, you are there to repsect your body and test its limits, not to be ashamed. For me, pride started with a "SCREW YOU! Theres nothing wrong with me!" and has slowly been gaining ground with the recent dicoveries that its "okay to love" and "i have a right to stand up for myself" A miraculous couple of philosphical breakthroughs im sure. Another thing i liked doing was getting pissed off, even though it takes a long time to stop suppressing the anger, it feels good to get anrgy even a little. Try to remember there is nothing wrong with you, and its not your fault your thinking this way. Strength isnt how much you can lift above your head.

May you find the stregth to be proud.

Hi Terry:
I am 40 yrs old and was raped 7 years ago. Pretty weird isn't it? Being an adult man and then getting raped! Whoever heard of such a thing, except in prison or something. At least thats what I used to think. I can totally relate to the disconnected feeling around other men. Actually I felt that way around the whole world for the first year or so. I kept looking at men and wondering if they were rapists, molestors, or what. When I go to the gym I don't even try to fit in. I just go to do my thing to improve myself and leave. It is not the place I choose to make friends in because of the competitive atmosphere. There really are good men out there adn it is hard to find them. Like one of the guys said, maybe get involved in hobbies or activities you enjoy and pursue friendships there. And, it might just be too early in your recovery to be worrying about such things. Things will definitely get better with time if you get help and keep talking about it. October was not very long ago!

My best to you, Michigan friend.

I was unable to get online for a few days. I sometimes think this computer has a mind of it's own!

Ken: I think you are right I need to give myself credit. I think sometimes those of us who have been abused are way too hard on ourselves.

jackjohn: Yes, I lived in Baltimore back in October. We were planning on moving back to MI already but I had stayed behind so that the school where I worked could find a teacher. My last day of school was October 12th..the attack happened Octber 15th. If I could of only left earlier.....

Lloydy: I do not have a "beer belly" but it sure looks like one!! Mine is from too much Coke/pop!!

Oroda: I have never even heard of this person or this song? Where would I find it?

Roy: Like I said we seem to have some thing in common.

Broken: I agree with your statement: Strength is not how much one can lift above their heads.

I have not been to the gym at all this past week or this week so far. The wife and I are going on vacation this Saturday....which is realy not stopping me from going.

Terry

MrSunshineGuy,
I have one thing running through my head..
How the hell did you get into a work scenario where they actually know you are in therapy? THAT takes guts. Or something.

What happened?

Yes, letting the guys at work know what's happening is a big step, one I was thinking of taking.
But last week a rumour started about one of our supervisors, it was said he was sacked from his last job because he'd been caught having sex with another man in the back seat of his car on the car park.
Well, you can imagine how this rumour went...
It was fast and furious, and the levels of derision were only matched by the homophobic bigotry. Was there a scrap of sympathy or understanding ? no.
Last night his boss came round and explained to us that the rumour was totally untrue, an incident like this had taken place but we had the right surname - wrong man.

It'll be interesting to see peoples attitudes on Monday morning, will this guy still be the pariah he instantly became ?

The whole episode upset me greatly, there but for the grace etc....
Was this guy acting out ? was he a victim ?
It made me rethink letting my work colleagues know my history, or that I have therapy, and for the foreseeable future I will maintain secrecy.

It will mean joining in with the derision etc just to maintain the front, not something I am proud of this last week, but seeing the screaming hordes at work made my mind up.
Lloydy

Hi Thorns,

About my work scenario . . .

Part of it is that our business was put together by a pack of nuts . . . present company of me very much included in that. But more specifically, I think the concept that my therapist would have used . . . .

a TOTAL LACK OF BOUNDARIES.

Not only do they tend to know waaayyyy too much stuff about my stuff,

I know waaaayyyy too much about most of theirs.

The "designated grown-up" (can't really call him the boss, because he hardly is) of our operation is a total, total, total slut. Up to six girlfriends at one time . . . . besides his wife. And hugely explicit details about many of them. But we are best buds, because we played Army together, and he was my senior officer.

One day while we were working at a college, one of the guys who was with me on that job, started teasing and coaxing, why don't you write some math equations up on the chalk board, and then you can be just like that guy in "Good Will Hunting" (a movie about an abused boy) and then he would laugh and laugh.

I know that another one of the guys used to screw his horse for fun, as a teenager, and that when he was being squished against the barn wall by the horse, his cousin punched the horse, and he beat the cousin up, for hitting his horse. geeezzzzzz.

I know that other co-workers dads abused their sister.

Others like ?double-dipping? the same prostitute.

It goes on and on and on and on and on . . . .

So yeah, when it came to me having problems, I was just going to babble on and babble on about my stuff . . .

And we all laugh(ed) at each others stuff . . . .

ALL because of a TOTAL LACK OF BOUNDARIES.

But I guess it does not really fit with most work environments. I mean, with the kind of work we do, you can quit, but you really can't get fired or laid off or anything . . . . But I guess I do love that I can actually be me, most of the time, and be accepted . . . . or at least tolerated.

But on we go with a TOTAL LACK OF BOUNDARIES.

See you,

Sunshine

Hi Thorns,

About my work scenario . . .

Part of it is that our business was put together by a pack of nuts . . . present company of me very much included in that. But more specifically, I think the concept that my therapist would have used . . . .

a TOTAL LACK OF BOUNDARIES.

Not only do they tend to know waaayyyy too much stuff about my stuff,

I know waaaayyyy too much about most of theirs.

The "designated grown-up" (can't really call him the boss, because he hardly is) of our operation is a total, total, total slut. Up to six girlfriends at one time . . . . besides his wife. And hugely explicit details about many of them. But we are best buds, because we played Army together, and he was my senior officer.

One day while we were working at a college, one of the guys who was with me on that job, started teasing and coaxing, why don't you write some math equations up on the chalk board, and then you can be just like that guy in "Good Will Hunting" (a movie about an abused boy) and then he would laugh and laugh.

I know that another one of the guys used to screw his horse for fun, as a teenager, and that when he was being squished against the barn wall by the horse, his cousin punched the horse, and he beat the cousin up, for hitting his horse. geeezzzzzz.

I know that other co-workers dads abused their sister.

Others like ?double-dipping? the same prostitute.

It goes on and on and on and on and on . . . .

So yeah, when it came to me having problems, I was just going to babble on and babble on about my stuff . . .

And we all laugh(ed) at each others stuff . . . .

ALL because of a TOTAL LACK OF BOUNDARIES.

But I guess it does not really fit with most work environments. I mean, with the kind of work we do, you can quit, but you really can't get fired or laid off or anything . . . . But I guess I do love that I can actually be me, most of the time, and be accepted . . . . or at least tolerated.

But on we go with a TOTAL LACK OF BOUNDARIES.

See you,

Sunshine