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#433801 - 05/06/13 05:47 PM Re: Could my brother and I BOTH have amnesia?? [Re: pufferfish]
Life's A Dream Offline


Registered: 08/25/11
Posts: 886
Loc: Bouvet Island
Originally Posted By: pufferfish
LAD

Several years ago I read a book which might apply to your situation. It is about abuse of a daughter and so that doesn't apply to you, but the outcome might be similar.

The book is: Miss America By Day. It's about former Miss America candidate Marilyn Van Derber. Her father was a very highly respected and wealthy businessman in Denver. She loved her father and he was her most ardent supporter. At night he would creep into her bedroom, having his fingernails carefully filed down, and do little "tricks" with her. Yet during the daytime she was so charming and beautiful that she won the Miss America Pageant. She had no memory of having been abused at night by her father (hence the title of the book, Miss America by Day). At night the legacy of her father's abuse was apt to reappear. This led to certain tendencies of hers to act in a certain way at night. Yet it was under a cloak of amnesia. It took her a long time to figure it out and to seek help. So, she had amnesia to the pattern in her home before she went away to college. She had 2 sisters. One of the sister's stories is under the quote below from the LA Times. She was aware of what was going on but didn't have amnesia. However, they slept in separate bedrooms.

http://www.missamericabyday.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_Van_Derbur

http://www.amazon.com/Miss-America-Day-Unconditional-ebook/dp/B004RW52QE/

Originally Posted By: review in Amazon.com

As a student and young adult, Van Derbur was an overachiever with an unconscious need to stay very busy. She realizes now this was a coping mechanism to keep her two worlds separated—the "night child" who suffered at the hands of her father and the "day child" who was happy and outgoing.
.....
She writes of her endless need to be respected by others, all the while believing that if others really knew who she was, they would hate her and look at her with disdain and disgust. The perfectly poised mask she showed the outside world was a far cry from the tortured, panic-stricken, anxious woman within. The shame she felt within was a constant in her life, reminding her that she was "unworthy."



Originally Posted By: Los Angeles Times

Three days after the speech, Marilyn Van Derbur's oldest sister, Gwen, an attorney in Hillsborough, Calif., told the Rocky Mountain News that she, too, had been molested by their father--but she had never forgotten. With that, most questions about Marilyn Van Derbur's credibility and memory ended, and last year her father's name was removed from the Denver Boy Scout building.


http://www.katybutler.com/publications/latimes/index_files/latimes_daddy.htm

http://www.gethealthyslv.org/surviving-incest-marilyn-van-derbur-shares-her-story/

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20115294,00.html

She happened to graduate from the same high school and college I did. I didn't become aware of her story until I got deeply involved in my own therapy.

Puffer



Now that sounds exactly like something I'll need to read. I'll have to trick my mom into ordering it for me, cuz I am pathetically broke and have been unemployed for a year. So all book suggestions have been frustratingly out of reach.

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#433802 - 05/06/13 05:49 PM Re: Could my brother and I BOTH have amnesia?? [Re: Life's A Dream]
Poorsoft Offline


Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 163
Its natural for an older sibling to feel responsible for another, instinct drives us to protect our own. But in mentally capable humans, healthy relationships with brothers often mean they are balanced where neither needs to rely on eachother; as is the basis for any balanaced relationship.

This is where I too come in LAD. I believe I'm your situation, though the perp is questionable. My brother is also protective of me, he used to try and toughen me up and was always there for me no matter how much we fought. I also idolise him, he may not be the most academically established individual; but he has a lot of brains and speaks a lot of sense. He's also tough, he wanted me to be too, but I submitted.

Now bringing it back to you, the reason I said this is because my theory I think applies to you also; if as an adult a man our brothers still feel the need to protect us, there is obvious a feeling of guilt and it seems they are trying to repay us as the 'training' they taught us failed to protect us from future abuse.

Thats my theory anyhow, I'm sure my brother knows - though he would never say. He's a tough guy, but sometimes he would complain about some physical thing, that I've had - because he had a lot of things I had; I assumed it was normal (shooting rectum pains as a kid and IBS as an adult). My brother and I are paralells; he is tough and fit, where I got lazy, overweight and unhealthy. I could not win physically, which I think my brother may have done at some point; so I attempted to make myself ugly and I believed what I became. I may have also been the subject to overfeeding by mother as a way to compensate the unhappiness that she seemed to see in her son.

It could be entirely possible, like I ultimately fear that you and your brother were forced to parcipate. Incest survivors specifically have a tendancy to idolise siblings and over exagerate their accomplishments and abilities. Seeing them as a hero is a much easier choice then remembering by the shared horrors of history that we may share.

I do apologise, suggesting these scenarios. Please take what you will, but be cautious and remember your own thoughts will come to you with time.

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#433807 - 05/06/13 06:46 PM Re: Could my brother and I BOTH have amnesia?? [Re: Poorsoft]
Life's A Dream Offline


Registered: 08/25/11
Posts: 886
Loc: Bouvet Island
Originally Posted By: Poorsoft
Its natural for an older sibling to feel responsible for another, instinct drives us to protect our own. But in mentally capable humans, healthy relationships with brothers often mean they are balanced where neither needs to rely on eachother; as is the basis for any balanaced relationship.

This is where I too come in LAD. I believe I'm your situation, though the perp is questionable. My brother is also protective of me, he used to try and toughen me up and was always there for me no matter how much we fought. I also idolise him, he may not be the most academically established individual; but he has a lot of brains and speaks a lot of sense. He's also tough, he wanted me to be too, but I submitted.

Now bringing it back to you, the reason I said this is because my theory I think applies to you also; if as an adult a man our brothers still feel the need to protect us, there is obvious a feeling of guilt and it seems they are trying to repay us as the 'training' they taught us failed to protect us from future abuse.

Thats my theory anyhow, I'm sure my brother knows - though he would never say. He's a tough guy, but sometimes he would complain about some physical thing, that I've had - because he had a lot of things I had; I assumed it was normal (shooting rectum pains as a kid and IBS as an adult). My brother and I are paralells; he is tough and fit, where I got lazy, overweight and unhealthy. I could not win physically, which I think my brother may have done at some point; so I attempted to make myself ugly and I believed what I became. I may have also been the subject to overfeeding by mother as a way to compensate the unhappiness that she seemed to see in her son.

It could be entirely possible, like I ultimately fear that you and your brother were forced to parcipate. Incest survivors specifically have a tendancy to idolise siblings and over exagerate their accomplishments and abilities. Seeing them as a hero is a much easier choice then remembering by the shared horrors of history that we may share.

I do apologise, suggesting these scenarios. Please take what you will, but be cautious and remember your own thoughts will come to you with time.


Everything you just said parallels me, and our relationship with each other. He is very ADD. I believe he is heavily dissociated. Everyone always thought it was funny ("just a left-handed guy thing") that he would space out and you had to physically shake him to get his attention back. I don't find it so funny. What you said makes perfect sense. Don't worry about misleading me. I am a hardcore skeptic. I want the truth. I don't want what merely satisfies me. I want the concrete truth, culminating in a confession from my dad.

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#433811 - 05/06/13 06:52 PM Re: Could my brother and I BOTH have amnesia?? [Re: bodyguard8367]
Life's A Dream Offline


Registered: 08/25/11
Posts: 886
Loc: Bouvet Island
Originally Posted By: bodyguard8367
LAD,

The fact that your brother also has amnesiac issues surrounding CSA and was abused as well is pretty significant.

You weren't in a safe place, and you both got molested.


When the mind endeavors to fool itself about the truth, it is never done out of sport or play, this type of memory is perceived as dangerous by your mind. Make sure if you are dealing with them that you have a connection with someone you trust absolutely so they can help you deal with any dangerous impulses and protect yourself.

When I was younger and I started having some flashbacks at work It was a dangerous environment. Contact with a T was necessary to get me through the hard parts.

Goood Luck



And he most certainly does have amnesia for the female abusers. He's said so himself. He can't remember how many times. Also, my mom insists on an instance where she found a 4 year old me, my 5 year old brother, and a 9 year old girl (daughter of my dad's coworker, over playing board games) and that she caught the girl in the act of molesting me, that I had a devastated look on my face and was crying, that Stewart kept telling her "She was being mean to Bryan", and that she then took us both aside (to my parents room) to debrief us and ask what happened. She insists she caught this girl molesting me.

Stewart insists I wasn't in the same room at all, and that she molested him in the closet with me nowhere near by. So his memory is confabulated. I'm much more prone to believe my mom's account. His has changed several times.

I wish I could do something about my environment, if I'm on the verge of some serious flashbacks, but there's not much I can do. Luckily (or unluckily?) I'm not working so I don't have to worry about being at work if it hits me. I do have a T, but he's just an EMDR therapist and I think I need talk therapy.

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