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#433518 - 05/04/13 03:26 PM PLease help!! why???? for partners and survivors?
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 367
After 10's of thousands dollars in therapy fees, 5 years of therapy and 12 step meetings, why the f&*k would you finally do your formal disclosure and lie??

It is abuse.

Trigger alert:
My whole relationship with my husband has been about both of us recreating our childhood traumas. Mine is recreating my relationship with a sex addict father who was unable to love me and could never meet anyone's needs but his own.

My husband was abused by 2 men and recreates his lack of power and control he felt by controlling our relationship with his secrets and lies and acting out on me. It is abuse.

Why would you want to abuse someone who loves you when you know how painful it is to be abused and have your rights and safety stolen from you??

Oh and by the way, the sexual dysfunction my husband has been dealing with all these years isn't sexual dysfunction at all but his not being sexually sober and still masterbating. Nice!

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#433519 - 05/04/13 03:41 PM Re: PLease help!! why???? for partners and survivors? [Re: lucylives]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1736
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hi Lucy

Im so sorry, this is really difficult for you I am sure,
You are really brave and have endured a lot. I am so sorry that your husband cant let go of his past.

I have no answers for you, I have no advice, I can just send you a Cyber hug and hope that it helps you feel a little better. ((((Hugs))))

Martin
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#433542 - 05/04/13 06:30 PM Re: PLease help!! why???? for partners and survivors? [Re: lucylives]
weharry1959 Offline


Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 70
Loc: N/W Pennsylvania, USA
Lucy, I too am sorry for what you are going through and I am no therapist, but I wonder if your husband is holding on to what he knows, even though he knows it is not good, but is afraid to face the unknown. let me see if I can say it another way.

I had read a story about Lenin, who came to power at the advent of the Communist Soviet Union. As the story goes, he spoke to the Polit-bureau (a congress) where, as he spoke, he had a chicken in his hands and gently stroked the clucking chicken. He was going to demonstrate how to bring the masses under rule, when he started pulling out the feathers of the chicken, the chicken clucked loudly in pain and panic, trying to get away from his tormentor. AS he finished his speech, he put down the chicken, who had no feathers left and wanted to be cradled and protected because it had been stripped of what it was, the chicken followed after Lenin as though it was a loyal pet.
The point, the chicken, only knew the hands of his tormentor, was stripped through terror, but was afraid to leave what it knew as it didn't anticipate the abuse of the one who only moments before, stroked it as a pet.
Lenin's lesson was if you strip the person of who they are or thought that were, their drawn to what ever lead is presented to them.
I have been battling CSA and Military ASA for a long time. It's an uphill battle I sometimes don't think I can make, but I keep my head down and focused on just making it through til I go to bed. I feel that my maker then takes over and continues to put the breath of life in me. I sometimes, regress back to what I am familiar with, even though I know better, because the unknown is out there! That can be pretty daunting and can be scary, so rather than face and determine to change those traumatic events and thought processes, I give in and then feel horrible it and the cycle starts all over again.
I don't know if that helps, "explain" the why, but maybe helps in some way.
_________________________
Forgiving does not always mean everything goes back to the way it was. There are still natural consequences for what was done.

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#433569 - 05/04/13 10:46 PM Re: PLease help!! why???? for partners and survivors? [Re: lucylives]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5947
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Quote:
why the f&*k would you finally do your formal disclosure and lie??


It is a process. Male survivors have been "lying" about what happened for years and decades. It is a good thing that he is able to disclose. It is impossibly difficult to continue to hear lies. I support a survivor, I feel your struggle.

Sometimes we have to pick up the good and wipe off the outdated coping mechanisms such as lying, passive aggressive behavior, acting out. Celebrating small steps of progress can feel like we are betraying ourselves, but it is the best we can do for our survivors. For us, the best we can do is to temper our emotional responses, to find outside support and fill our reserves with patience as we are resolved to continue supporting.

Hth's,
Sam
_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#433606 - 05/05/13 09:32 AM Re: PLease help!! why???? for partners and survivors? [Re: lucylives]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 367
Martin, thank you for your kind words.

Harry, thank you for your story but what is the UNKOWN that is so scary??????

Sam, I know it is a process but come on. When does he get to the part where he is living an authentic self?

I keep trying to get to a point where I see him as 2 separate people. The man he is and the ADDICT/shame monster. I HATE THE ADDICT. The addict makes him lie and so does the shame monster. They need to get the f*&k out of my house! But the man that is behind all that is amazing. I love him but I hate the addict/shame monster and I am tired of them taking over parts of my husband and living in my house!

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#433615 - 05/05/13 02:33 PM Re: PLease help!! why???? for partners and survivors? [Re: lucylives]
Airmid Offline


Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 95
Loc: South
I'm so sorry you're hurting. From what my husband has disclosed detail-wise, I can see a very direct connection not to just shame and secrecy, but to not having a sense of self. That was taken from him by his abuser.

When people don't know who they are (especially survivors), they run (sometimes literally) with what has always worked for them, even if it's hurting themselves and everyone they love. Making the leap to doing something different means changing beliefs, which means facing fear. The fact that there are no guarantees enhances the fear, which has been life's biggest guarantee for them until now. It means maybe having to catch themselves when they jump, because it's an internal leap of faith, not external...so they approach it backwards, controlling externals with the hope that one day the inside stuff will follow suit.

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#433624 - 05/05/13 03:39 PM Re: PLease help!! why???? for partners and survivors? [Re: lucylives]
weharry1959 Offline


Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 70
Loc: N/W Pennsylvania, USA
Lucylives - I guess the "unknown" is the fear of facing the truth (be it real or imagined). When I started going through therapy, I was asked if I wanted my wife to be there to hear what I went through and my feelings. I didn't know if she could hear the real truth, yeah, she heard about the abuse, but not to the depth or feelings I was asked to share. I concurred, believing that she'd hit the door running and screaming (and I couldn't blame her), but she didn't? an enigma that still confounds me to this day. She says it's because she loves me and that our vows are a covenant made in front of God. I have a hard time understanding how anyone can love me, as I have had a skewed understanding of love.
It can be as simple as, when you were a young girl and your heart pined for a young man, who you didn't even think knew you existed, even though you sat next to him in class. As an adult you've overcome your shyness and see it for what it really was. but, when a person, who's views of the world has been perverted it becomes, like a binary loop, no beginning, no end, no normal rational stop. It's something we got to relearn or adapt to. Perhaps, think of it this way, you are on an unknown mountain, you come to a "Y" in the road, you have a choice to go right or left. you choose one, because something tells you to go down this path. you do, hrs. later, you come upon another "Y" in the road. It looks like the same you travelled before, but you're so tired and confused, you question your understanding of "what just happened". So, you have to make a decision as to what path you choose to take. It's getting dark and you think maybe if you go down the same path, again, you might find another path, but you are so tired and are thinking clearly and you end up finding yourself to the "Y" in the road again. You consider taking the other path, but your scared (of the unknown)that you don't know what's down that other path. At least if your moving in the same direction, you may finally find your way out. Rational forward thinking goes out the window. You don't think of other solutions. You only think, if I moving forward I'm gonna get out, not considering that no matter how you do it, you still will end up doing the same thing over and over and over again.
Your husband, needs to find someone, a professional, who'll guide him down the right path. He needs to understand that it's gonna be extremely hard, painful and desolate times. Sometimes, it's feeling like I don't have the strength to hold on for one more second. Sometimes, it's so monumental. And often times, you'll look back and see how far you've fell and how far you've come and how far you think you still need to go before you feel like you're done, only to find that you've still got some more to climb. It's not easy, but if his love for you and you for him is still there, it will be worth it. It truly is an addiction. I hope that this helps explain what I mean as "unknown". Sincerely, Bill
_________________________
Forgiving does not always mean everything goes back to the way it was. There are still natural consequences for what was done.

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#433656 - 05/05/13 09:24 PM Re: PLease help!! why???? for partners and survivors? [Re: lucylives]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 367
Bill, I really wish I could understand what you are trying to tell me. I just don't get it.

Airmid, u are right on. Facing fear is huge for him and he goes back to the old f^&ked up acts upon himself because it is so safe. Intimacy is scary. Giving up control is scary.

You wanna know what else is scary? Living with someone who lies so easily just to cover up his shame. Now that is scary shit. Giving someone another chance who has proven to be so dishonest, now that is scary stuff.

we women are either stupid or have balls of steel. I can tell yu for a fact, if the tables were turned, my husband wouldn't have the courage to walk with me and that pisses me off but it is true. This journey is not for the faint of heart!

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#433738 - 05/06/13 10:32 AM Re: PLease help!! why???? for partners and survivors? [Re: lucylives]
weharry1959 Offline


Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 70
Loc: N/W Pennsylvania, USA
you are not stupid. And, your husband has to take ownership and WANT to change. Action speaks louder than words. So, while forgiveness is always desired, there is a natural consequences for one's behavior.
Maybe if he see's your seriousness and expectation for change, that he's gotta stop and make those changes, maybe he'll change. You aren't suppose to be a martyr for the cause, we should only be a loving supporter. But, if he's not putting forward the true work to change, you both may need to reassess what the expectation of your marriage is to be, moving forward. I hope and pray things get better for you both. Bill
_________________________
Forgiving does not always mean everything goes back to the way it was. There are still natural consequences for what was done.

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#434557 - 05/13/13 10:43 AM Re: PLease help!! why???? for partners and survivors? [Re: lucylives]
Airmid Offline


Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 95
Loc: South
Lucy, I hear your anger. I've had that anger (I'm a survivor married to a male survivor too.) The problem is for me that when I carry that anger long-term, it eventually depletes trust and minimizes my guy's progress nearly as much as the actions and inactions I question out of anger.

The anger comes and goes, which confuses me about myself. Why can't I just get it together and be a more suuportive wife? What old tapes is it bringing up within me that I might need to deal with regarding my own abuse? Those are my two biggest questions. The first one is fed by the lies my own abuse taught and told me: that if I'm good enough, perfect enough, compliant enough, then he (or the world, or my family, or co-workers, etc) will 'act right" and "do right". It didn't occur to me until last month that I really needed to re-define what "right" means.

Somewhere a few years back, the men discussed the lies they were told or adopted along the way as coping mechanism surrounding the abuse. I'll see if I can dig it up and link it. It was turly eye-opening, because I also had a lot of those lies floating around in my own head. But some of the lies and the shame for men really do run (for me) run so much deeper than what I as a female experience, and I do have to factor that into how I cope with DH acting out.

Mine isn't acting out as much as he used to, and he's tried shifting "acting out gears" here and there, too. I believe it's part of the healing process. It's as if the thoughts are "If xyz doesn't work, I wonder if abc will?" when the answer is actually jkl. All I know is that while the ideal is that my DH and I both work on our own stuff, sometimes that balance is way off. There have been plenty of times where I went much more slowly in my healing, regressed or even relapsed with my own acting out (gambling, flirtatious behavior) and it hurt him, just as his actions (gambling overnight with no notice, flirting, and obsession with work) hurt me. It wasn't until each of our actions hurt ourselves gravely that either of us took larger healing and actions and buckled down in our efforts.

In essence, unless the acting out puts me in direct danger or he's refusing to deal with it at all, I don't have the right to demand that it be done on my time line and schedule, just as my DH doesn't have the right to expect that of me. It's another control mechanism. Facing that was probably the most painful aspect of surviving that I've faced, and DH has hinted that his PA actions are the most difficult for him. Sometimes talking around the abuse is talking about the abuse, even if it doesn't seem to be as willing (and open) as each of us want. I struggle with "now now now!" often, and all I know is that truth shows it when it damn well is ready to show up, regardless of when I think it should. It sucks sometimes. Other times? It's surprising and amazing.

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#434570 - 05/13/13 01:39 PM Re: PLease help!! why???? for partners and survivors? [Re: lucylives]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 367
You are right about a lot of things Airmid, and though I don't have a right to demand that it all be done on my timeline and schedule, I do have a right to demand to live in a marriage without lies and manipulation. That is not called control, that is called having a boundary.

I have been at this rodeo almost 5 years. I belong to a 12 step group which has been my life saver, I have been in therapy for years dealing with this and my own crap. I have done everything in my power to heal from my own trauma and the trauma caused by living with a sex addict. The good news is that I think I am a much better mother than I was before, a better wife and a better human being than I was before all this occurred.

I just wish my husband was a total asshole, then it would be easy to leave. The problem is that he is such a wonderful guy when the shame monster and the sex addict aren't in control. I am learning that it is ok to love the man and hate the addict. Of course, I have a right to be in a marriage where lies and shame don't rule and I can have some safety. We all do!

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#434574 - 05/13/13 03:40 PM Re: PLease help!! why???? for partners and survivors? [Re: lucylives]
Airmid Offline


Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 95
Loc: South
I'm not intending to argue, Lucy. The control is his refusal to do anything. Not tolerating intolerable behavior is spot-on solid. Absolutely. We can understand what drives it all we want, and it doesn't change their willingness until they hurt enough themselves to change. Understanding is for us, and we can have compassion while still enforcing self-protective boundaries. Nothing excuses the acting-out, and in my opinion, it is an asshole behavior when it's planned and has an emotional involvement, regardless of shame driving it, and regardless of other motives. I threw away the compulsion argument when I saw that he groomed potential GF's as 'friends' regularly. It didn't stop him, but it opened my eyes, and like you said, drove me to be better for myself in many ways.

It's kind of like the old AA saying that people don't see our motives; all they see are our actions. So true. You can hate the addiction, yes. It hurts, it destroys, it kills. You have a right to be in a safe, secure marriage, no matter what or whether his recovery is happening or not. But, the Three C's still apply. Hoping he'll change is still holding out for the "cure" part of that to happen, and can be (but isn't always) a way to avoid the reality that right now, right this minute, he might not be changing at all. Can we spouses/partners live with that reality?

When we stick to our boundaries, it can cause strife, because we're changing for our protection. (I know you know that, I'm adding that for any newer members.) Boundaries are for our safety, not to convince them to change. Inside, are you holding out hope that it will happen soon, that he'll embrace therapy, dump her and get it together & start truly healing? For me, that was the one question I didn't want to see: was I holding out hope that I could "help" him get to a point of wanting healing? Was I prepared to go to any lengths to protect the marriage and especially to protect myself emotionally in the meantime? In my case, I had had inconsistent boundaries, and that had played a part in the breakdown of our dynamic. I no longer could blame the collapse of the marriage on his refusal to address his own stuff. It hurt like hell.

I'm sorry you're hurting, and I'm sorry I seem to have contributed to that some. You're a strong, awesome, amazing woman who does deserve better than the treatment you're getting. you deserve to be fully loved, cared for and to have true intimacy. I want that for you.

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#434590 - 05/13/13 08:20 PM Re: PLease help!! why???? for partners and survivors? [Re: lucylives]
lucylives Offline


Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 367
Thanks for the response, Air. My husband is in recovery, 12 step programs for 5 years. Therapy all that time too. The only emotional involvement in his acting out is his hand and that is bad enough.

I have seen a lot of change in the past 5 years (mostly the last 3 of sex addiction 12 step) but it is VERY disappointing none the less that the shame and the addict is still so prevelant in his dealings of life.

I will send you a pm.

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