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#433068 - 04/30/13 05:19 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
bodyguard8367 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/26/14 11:15 PM)

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#433070 - 04/30/13 05:23 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
Publius Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 396
Loc: OH
I only made it through a handful of these posts before I had to stop. I'll try to make it through them all later but for now I am too upset. Right now my initial reaction says 8 soldiers, 8 rifles, 7 bullets.
_________________________
"Life is like this dark tunnel. You may not always see the light at the end of the tunnel, but if you keep moving, you will come to a better place." ~ General Iroh

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#433097 - 04/30/13 10:12 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3322
Loc: O Kanada
it is almost certain that the perpetrators/predators in most of these cases are traumatized/programmed victims of long-term sexual abuse themselves, who never managed to escape.

many are trapped since childhood in a sick self-perpetuating culture of violence, fear, and intimidation.

and having participated, often unwillingly, in crimes against other children, including rape, recruiting, kidnapping, etc...
these atrocities are filmed in many cases.
this can be held against the sex slaves for blackmail purposes, which forces continued "voluntary" participation until their souls are scarred and scared, and many feel beyond redemption, unworthy of forgiveness, fear reprisal for betraying their abusers, or fear public exposure, prosecution and punishment for what they have done.

you can imagine how deep they are buried spiritually.

this is "stockhold syndrome" and "vampirism" all rolled into one.

this is a very complex generational problem that goes way back in history.

maybe some were born sadistic sociopaths, but i believe most were manufactured and trained.
some, unfortunately, are born into these pedocults.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#433099 - 04/30/13 10:19 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1039
Victor-Victim,

You seem to have a good handle on this issue from an intellectual perspective, which is an amazing thing because it can be so difficult to get one's head around a subject like this.

Cant
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#433112 - 05/01/13 12:17 AM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
pufferfish Online   embarrased
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6847
Loc: USA
Victor-Victim

It sounds like you have done some reading and thinking about why perpetrators do what they do.

I wrote a post about my abuser in this location:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...2270#Post422270

Puffer

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#433115 - 05/01/13 01:07 AM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3322
Loc: O Kanada
the reason i know what i know is because of studying the Franklin Scandal and watching the documentary Conspiracy of Silence.
then i waded through hours and hours of videotaped victim testimony.

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...2874#Post432874

this triggered all my hidden memories of my experience with clifford olson, and i recalled how he used me to bring new boys to the jobsite, with the promise of work, which i did, to my eternal shame and guilt.
this was the hardest thing for me to accept and forgive about myself.

i am not excusing what i did.
these were my reasons:

i did it to divert his attentions away from me, but i felt sick about it.
then i felt rejected and jealous when he ignored me and began his seduction routine with them.
then i felt like killing myself for putting these other boys my age at risk.
but i was too chickenshit to warn them.
i had to protect my reputation as a psycho tough guy.
i did not want the other guys to find out i was "gay" or "fag".
that was a dangerous label in Surrey in 1977.
anyone suspected of homosexuality was beaten and bullied mercilessly by gangs of "fagbashers".
i had seen it numerous times.
guys humiliated, forced to eat dogshit, lick boots, just for being effeminate or timid.

i was afraid clifford would kill me or hurt me if i told anyone what happened, or if i failed to comply.
i was worried that i was no longer useful to him.
now that he had already raped me twice, he did not seem to be interested in me anymore.
he was starting to talk very rude and mean to me.
insulting and degrading me, calling me dirty names,
but he kept me by his side most of the time, and never let me out of his control.
if i was recruiting, then i still had value, i reasoned.

i still can't understand why i just didn't run away.
once, after the first rape, i did not show up for work,
i was just sitting there at home, in a zombie robot trance.
unable to act one way or the other.

he called my house, just like any regular employer would,
talked to my mother on the telephone, gave me shit for being late,
and arrived at my house within the hour to pick me up.
when he asked "why didn't you come in today" i wanted to yell,
"because you raped me" but it was like it never happened and i was unable to speak the words,
so i said "i'm sorry, i slept in".
even when we were alone, i could not admit that he had raped me.

he shook my mother's hand and promised her that he was looking after me.
he would make sure i didn't mess up this job,
and that he would "straighten me out". "don't worry".

she was so charmed, and told me what a nice wonderful man he was.
i was lucky to have such an opportunity, such a lenient boss, and i should be more responsible.
it was so normal, i almost laughed out loud.

instead i apologized and he took me straight to a big house in a nice neighbourhood.
he took me downstairs to a sauna, and he raped me a second time.
the man who lived there stayed upstairs.
he seemed not to notice when cliff and i were walking around with nothing but towels on.
clifford insisted i wear a towel, he said my nudity was improper,
that i should "cover up".
although by this time, i did not understand his need for modesty,
considering what he had just done to me.

after this, the subtle threats and insults started.
i could feel his loathing toward me, like it was my fault.
he called me a "slut" for wanting to have sex with him.
then he said i liked it too much.
i remember this made me feel bad, like i had failed or disappointed him.

for the next few days, after meeting him,
my mother gushed about what a sharp dresser he was.
it made me sick that she (a single woman) was obviously attracted to the man who raped her son.
i did not tell her what he really was. i did not want to upset her, or get in trouble.

i did not trust her anyway, because she had already let me down.
when i was 12 i told her that the tenant in our basement suite had been molesting me.
she did nothing, and let him continue to live there, after he denied touching me.
but that is another story.

this is all very disturbing to convey, but it is brutal truth.

any ruthless person can brainwash a kid.
it doesn't take a genius, just a degenerate.
it is a cold science.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#433156 - 05/01/13 01:15 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3322
Loc: O Kanada
Originally Posted By: cant_remember
Victor-Victim,

You seem to have a good handle on this issue from an intellectual perspective, which is an amazing thing because it can be so difficult to get one's head around a subject like this.

Cant


if only i could get a handle on it from an emotional perspective.
it has proven impossible for me to get my heart around a subject like this.

thank god i did not became one of these sociopaths.
no matter how hard i tried to erase all trace of "weakness" (empathy-conscience-emotion) from my personality, using my "vulcan logic"... i could not rid myself of my humanity.

after decades of detachment, i am still trying to combine my head's comprehension with my heart's compassion.
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Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#433917 - 05/07/13 07:15 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3322
Loc: O Kanada
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#434648 - 05/14/13 01:10 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: victor-victim]
pufferfish Online   embarrased
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6847
Loc: USA
After having given this subject a "rest" for a few weeks, I'm back at it again.

I'm finding more and more references to experiments and hypnotic affects on boys around 12 (my age) in the 1950's. They were interested in controlling human behavior with hypnosis and drugs.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/770721nytimes.ciahumanbehaviorcontrol

http://www.wanttoknow.info/nationbetrayed10pg

Originally Posted By: Nation Betrayed by Carol Rutz

The Central Intelligence Agency [CIA] bought my services at the tender age of four from my grandfather in 1952. Over the next 12 years, I was tested, trained, and used in various ways. Electroshock, drugs, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, and other types of trauma were used to make me compliant and split my personality (create multiple personalities for specific tasks). Each alter or personality was created to respond to a post-hypnotic trigger, then perform an act and not remember it later. This "Manchurian Candidate" program [1] was just one of the operational uses of the mind control scenario by the CIA. Your hard earned tax dollars supported this. P. xvii


http://www.wanttoknow.info/mindcontrol10pg#ciadocs

In another document it says:
Quote:

From 1950 until the 1970s, the CIA collaborated closely with the US Army while conducting LSD and other chemical tests on humans. Experiments were conducted where none of the volunteers gave their ‘informed consent' prior to receiving LSD. There was a deliberate attempt to deny the volunteers any information that would have permitted them to evaluate the dangers involved. Most of the related records have been destroyed. [53] MC 20, 21, 29, 32


I believe my abuser to have been US Army working in conjunction with CIA. I believe I was administered LSD without my knowledge.

And in another document it speaks of experiments in 1951.
Originally Posted By: Mind Control Summary
The Secrets of Mind Control
Based on Three Books by Top Mind Control Researchers

In a general request for volunteers [deleted names] volunteered for H [hypnosis] experimentation and were originally tested on 21 May 1951. Both girls, at this time, were nineteen years of age. These subjects have clearly demonstrated that they can pass from a fully awake state to a deep H controlled state via the telephone, via some very subtle signal that cannot be detected by other persons in the room, and without the other individuals being able to note the change.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/mind_control/cia_mind_control_experiments_sex_abuse

Quote:

Army doctors were actively involved in LSD testing at least until the late 1970's. Subjects of LSD experiments included children as young as five years old, and brain electrodes were implanted in children as young as 11 years of age. Four of the CIA's MKULTRA Subprojects were on children. The mind control doctors included presidents of the American Psychiatric Association and psychiatrists who received full-page obituaries in the American Journal of Psychiatry. Responsibility for the unethical experimentation lies first with the individual doctors, but also collectively with the medical profession, and with academia as a whole. BB 21


Quote:

On 2 July 1951 approximately 1:00 p.m. the instruction began with [deleted] relating to the student some of his sexual experiences. [Deleted] stated that he had constantly used hypnotism as a means of inducing young girls to engage in sexual intercourse with him. [Deleted], a performer in [deleted] orchestra, was forced to engage in sexual intercourse with [deleted] while under the influence of hypnotism. [Deleted] stated that he first put her into a hypnotic trance and then suggested to her that he was her husband and that she desired sexual intercourse with him.

Question: It says this was a girl. Could it have been a lie? Could it have really been a boy? (me)?


Puffer




Edited by pufferfish (05/14/13 02:04 PM)

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#434659 - 05/14/13 02:05 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
Puffer,

Take care that you keep your feet on the ground. As you go through the pain of trying to reconstruct your past I would hate to think you were being led astray and fed more unnecessary pain by some crackpot con artist.

WantToKnow is a clearinghouse on 9/11Trutherism, vaccine denialism, anti-NASA conspiracies, cold-fusion hucksterism, despicable phony "cures" for autism, and some business about telepathy thrown in for good measure. The reality of MKUltra and Project Paperclip are ghastly and outlandish enough that they need to be viewed in serious surroundings, or else all the kookery in the background that defies basic foundational facts of physics, avionics, ballistics, biology, and epidemiology rub off on it and sap its credibility too.


Matt
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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