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#449973 - 10/12/13 07:46 PM Re: m.aquino research [Re: pufferfish]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3362
Loc: O Kanada
Originally Posted By: pufferfish
I stand by the descriptions of abuse I experienced. I have not mentioned the name of my abuser. When I get to the point of being able to absolutely prove it, I may mention his name.

Things like the connection I make here consist of the little guy (me) who was extremely badly abused as a boy, finally finding out that numerous others experienced the same thing. Very few crimes are ever established beyond the shadow of a doubt. I shouldn't have to hire a lawyer to prove my case in this matter.

The descriptions in the web site I just referred to are so close to the descriptions of what happened to me that they can't have arisen by chance. I have a bunch of books at this point which describe the same kinds of abuse of children as I and others experienced. There are several books by people who were not abused in this way but who are either established professors in well-known universities, or who are reputable authors. I have been listing these books in this thread, and I have more which I can list.

I have nowhere else to vet my grievances. It would be a great injustice to deny me the right to vet them here.

There is a wide tolerance on this site to accepting the survivor stories of those of us who have been wounded by abusive treatment we have received.

If there is an error in reporting, it's that probably more children have been wounded by MK-Ultra and related programs, than were killed or maimed by the infamous Dr. Death of Auschwitz fame. This stuff needs to be brought out where the public can be made aware of it.

Puffer



i support you, your opinion, your position, and your efforts to dig up the truth, puffer!

i have had similar problems with encountering reluctance, even resistance, when attempting to explore, expose, investigate, or discuss government/military/political angles to the international institutions of child abuse, both current and historical.
the abusers benefit from the suppression and secrecy surrounding this topic.
not even other survivors are comfortable dealing with this.
_________________________
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#449979 - 10/12/13 08:16 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
Jacob S Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 608
Loc: one foot out the door
Puffer,

Please don't think my intention was to doubt you or hinder your healing. Nothing could be further from my intentions.

I certainly would hate it if anyone here felt like they were not listened to and believed when sharing their own story.

I also want you to know that I am not specifically replying to your latest post. I have not looked at that link in detail so I'm not commenting on it one way or the other. My concern is that the general drift of this thread has been for some time moving away from simply sharing stories and moving toward being a clearinghouse of unproven accusations.

There is indeed a wide tolerance on this site for accepting stories and that tolerance and acceptance is crucial to healing. There is a difference, however, between sharing one's own experience in order to heal and making claims about other individuals. There is neither legal evidence nor wide public consensus against many of the people that the links in this thread have implicated. Many of us would love to shout the names and addresses of perps who escaped justice, and 99.999% of us (if not 100%) would be telling the truth. But the harm of allowing such free-wheeling allegations outweighs the good it would do, because sooner or later their would be a false allegation and lives would be destroyed because of it.

I am not questioning the authenticity of your tale or your intentions. I am saying that making public accusations based solely on personal uncorroborated testimony is a practice too easily corrupted. Everything in this thread might be 100% correct, but, prior to proof, allowing these allegations to stand in public 1) is unfair to the individuals being accused AND 2)opens the door for spurious accusations in the future. The only way to keep this site from being a place where unjust accusations are rampant is to have a standard of proof in place before allowing specific accusations to be published. And since malesurvivor is not equipped to draw up such standards itself, it is perfectly reasonable to rely on legal standards.


That is my opinion on the matter. Of course I can't tell anyone what to do. And above all I don't want you to think I am trying to pick a fight here. I just don't think repeating or linking to these accusations is good for the overall purpose or health of this site.
_________________________
"These days I just try to keep to myself,
well aware I've lost touch with everyone else.
I understand that I'm fading away."

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#449982 - 10/12/13 08:19 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: victor-victim]
Jacob S Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 608
Loc: one foot out the door
Originally Posted By: victor-victim

i have had similar problems with encountering reluctance, even resistance, when attempting to explore, expose, investigate, . . .
not even other survivors are comfortable dealing with this.



edit: thank you for clarifying that isn't referring to me.


Edited by Jacob S (10/12/13 08:57 PM)
_________________________
"These days I just try to keep to myself,
well aware I've lost touch with everyone else.
I understand that I'm fading away."

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#449984 - 10/12/13 08:41 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: victor-victim]
Jacob S Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 608
Loc: one foot out the door
Originally Posted By: victor-victim

the abusers benefit from the suppression and secrecy surrounding this topic.


from one of my favorite plays:

Roper: So now you'd give the Devil benefit of law!
More: Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
Roper: I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast– man's laws, not God's– and if you cut them down—and you're just the man to do it—do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake.
_________________________
"These days I just try to keep to myself,
well aware I've lost touch with everyone else.
I understand that I'm fading away."

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#449985 - 10/12/13 08:43 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3362
Loc: O Kanada
to jacobS,
i was agreeing with puffer.
not disagreeing with you.
my reply was not referring to your post.
sorry for the confusion.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
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#449992 - 10/12/13 09:32 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 916
Loc: New York
Quote:
the abusers benefit from the suppression and secrecy surrounding this topic.


Abusers benefit more from the undermining of the methods of gathering, reporting, and investigating evidence.
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#450098 - 10/13/13 08:54 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: SoccerStar]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
The Radiohead site gives in lyric form the things I experienced as a boy. I didn't experience all of them. They cite books which I have read and one I'm reading now. The things they describe are incredible but true. Yes, people are doing these things to children.

I have stated these things in pufferfish story part 5.

Puffer


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#456898 - 12/16/13 06:01 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
I've discovered a book which fills in a huge amount of information as to what I experienced as a lad. It has to do with training of kids in MK-Ultra. What it describes is very close to events as I remembered them. I've been reading it avidly but I'm a slow reader.

Puffer

PS. This book is amazing. If anybody is struggling with this, I'll give you the author and title.

PSS. I was subjected to a very risky experiment. A large percentage of the children who were subjected to it died afterward, according to the book. Then I think I was de-selected from the program because I was very depressed. The experiment in some way caused me the loss of my voice. It also involved sex. Of the kids who continued, 15% became suicides.





Edited by pufferfish (12/17/13 08:31 PM)

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#457018 - 12/18/13 02:18 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Pufferfish post=444296

Now I'm concerned that they purchased my services for additional experiments.

Major "deleted" visited my home at least once that I know of. It was in about November after the summercamp. Did he arrange for me to be in more experiments?

My parents told me that I was to be taken to an ancient ear-nose-throat hospital in Washington DC for a tonsillectomy/adenoidectomy, even though I had that 10 years previously. We arrived at the depressing hospital. My parents put me through the doorway to the reception desk and left, almost as though they were ashamed to watch. I was put in a rickety wheelchair, probably dating from the civil war. I was taken to a bed.

During the operation I was under the impression that things were being done to me. I never understood. I was partially awake (patients with DID or MPD often have alters who don't respond to anesthetic properly-Some alters remain awake during operations-I was given extra ether to put me down). I have had the impression for a long time that I was sexually abused during the procedure. I think there was something else that happened. I think there was some kind of experiment being done on my head. I don't know what it was.

Afterward I felt sick from ether. I smelled it for 6 weeks. I couldn't talk properly. I could only talk in a raspy whisper. It didn't get better. It hung on for 3 1/2 years. My problems got worse.

The hospital is no longer there. The doctor was a wretched old man even then.


There is a book by Carol Rutz which describes a dangerous brain experiment done on her. I wondered if the same thing was done on me.
A Nation Betrayed: Secret Cold War Experiments Performed on our Children and Other Innocent People, by Carol Rutz


However, I've found a more recent book which seems to give information on experiments on children. It is:
CAT'S PAW - HIDDEN CELL OF THE MK-ULTRA PROJECT [Kindle Edition] by Richard Lawrence.

http://www.amazon.com/CATS-PAW-HIDDEN-MK-ULTRA-PROJECT-ebook/dp/B009ZHQIRS/

I think the author (Richard Lawrence) is writing under a pseudonym and I think he has changed some details to protect the innocent. But it seems to be giving his own story. It also gives information on what was going on before he was born, like in the time when I was being "worked on".

I believe that the brain experiments he described are what I went through. He must have had another source for this information because he wasn't born at the time of the described brain experiments. So I'm not sure who told him this information. If he tells his source I haven't seen it.
In the early 1950s they (CIA and NSA) were trying to figure out how to control and understand human behavior. There are lots of names are given in this book. I think I was one of the children subjected to experiments. My name is not given in the book, although I believe my abuser (in the scout camp) is identified under a pseudonym (General James Damsforth). I believe the book quotes some things he said but gives him a different name.

My memories are a bit vague. I believed they sexually abused me (in the operating room). I think 4 guys did it. Then I was given more anesthetic and then they worked on my head. They were into doing experiments on brains. The book I just mentioned talked about injecting cells from all kinds of animals and fetal cells from humans, but other people too. They also worked on prisoners, etc. Many of the subjects (according to that book) died from it. I didn't die but it took me a long time to get over it. It has taken me a long time to figure this stuff out.

Originally Posted By: Richard Lawrence in book: Cat's Paw

That morning, Gottlieb and Helms planted the seeds that launched America's longest range covert research project - a project that was to span decades, albeit under different names. Much of the research done by the Nazis was replicated to authenticate it. And, more. Much more. Convicts, alcoholics, beatnik artists, scientists, children andeven pregnant women were administered LSD and other drugs in hope of creating ESP and other special abilities.
.....
Fetal cells from all manner of animals were implanted in the brains of newborn infants and children to see how they would develop.

Many of this latter group developed tumors and died. Some survived. So, more careful methods were devised to prevent the rejections and infections that so often occurred.
Colored text is mine. It wasn't in the original book.

I think that this experiment is what happened to me. I was not among those who died (obviously). But I was distressed. I couldn't talk above a whisper for 3 to 4 years. I was socially more withdrawn. I think my strabismus (eye problem) became worse. I was very depressed.

I think they were trying to produce a superman. They wanted to see if the implantation of "foreign" brain cells into a child would stimulate strength or brilliance.

They (CIA or NSA) don't want this information to be made public. From that standpoint I've already said enough. But I have a burning, personal need to figure this stuff out. It definitely has a healing effect on me to look into it. It's like solving a puzzle in which I was personally involved. It's like solving a cold case.

Puffer




Edited by pufferfish (12/19/13 01:35 AM)

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#457027 - 12/18/13 05:09 PM Re: Johnny Gosch doc on MSNBC [Re: cant_remember]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3362
Loc: O Kanada
thanks for the update, puffer.
keep me posted.

it is bad news, but it needs to be heard!

freedom of speech only applies to those who have a voice!
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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