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#432446 - 04/25/13 08:53 PM Re: Complex PTSD [Re: hapati]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: hapati
Anyone been a victim of these things...

"...all repeated traumas in which there is an actual or perceived inability for the victim to escape."

I put in the bold the parts I thought were important.

Anyone had help with/therapy with an expert in Complex PTSD or been diagnosed ? Any thoughts ?

--

Complex post-traumatic stress disorder (C-PTSD) is a psychological injury that results from protracted exposure to prolonged social and/or interpersonal trauma in the context of either captivity or entrapment (a situation lacking a viable escape route for the victim), which results in the lack or loss of control, helplessness, and deformations of identity and sense of self. C-PTSD is distinct from, but similar to, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), somatization disorder, dissociative identity disorder, and borderline personality disorder.

C-PTSD involves complex and reciprocal interactions between multiple biopsychosocial systems. It was first described in 1992 by Judith Herman in her book Trauma & Recovery. Forms of trauma associated with C-PTSD include sexual abuse (especially child sexual abuse), physical abuse, emotional abuse, domestic violence or torture—all repeated traumas in which there is an actual or perceived inability for the victim to escape.

It may help to understand the intersection of attachment theory with C-PTSD and BPD if one reads the following opinion of Bessel A. van der Kolk together with an understanding drawn from a description of BPD:

Uncontrollable disruptions or distortions of attachment bonds precede the development of post-traumatic stress syndromes. People seek increased attachment in the face of danger. Adults, as well as children, may develop strong emotional ties with people who intermittently harass, beat, and, threaten them. The persistence of these attachment bonds leads to confusion of pain and love. Trauma can be repeated on behavioural, emotional, physiologic, and neuroendocrinologic levels. Repetition on these different levels causes a large variety of individual and social suffering. Anger directed against the self or others is always a central problem in the lives of people who have been violated and this is itself a repetitive re-enactment of real events from the past. Compulsive repetition of the trauma usually is an unconscious process that, although it may provide a temporary sense of mastery or even pleasure, ultimately perpetuates chronic feelings of helplessness and a subjective sense of being bad and out of control. Gaining control over one's current life, rather than repeating trauma in action, mood, or somatic states, is the goal of healing.

Seeking increased attachment to people, especially to care-givers who inflict pain, confuses love and pain and increases the likelihood of a captivity like that of betrayal bonding, (similar to Stockholm syndrome) and of disempowerment and lack of control. If the situation is perceived as life threatening then traumatic stress responses will likely arise and C-PTSD more likely diagnosed in a situation of insecure attachment than PTSD.


I relate strongly to this post.

I came across the concept of complex PTSD in a book I obtained from Amazon.com. Psychological Trauma and the Developing Brain. Neurologically Based Interventions for Troubled Children, by Phyllis Stien and Joshua Kendall.

http://www.amazon.com/Psychological-Trauma-Developing-Brain-Neurologically/dp/0789017881/

This book goes deeply into the topic of complex PTSD. It seems without a doubt that I have had this. I had sought to understanding the relationships between the variety of symptoms I experienced and understanding of modes of treatment. I have or had DID, PTSD, ADHD-like symptoms, dyslexia, depression. I also had complex social isolation problems and became without a voice. I have had a number of years of therapy from professionals for these conditions.

Briefly stated, PTSD results from a single exposure to a trauma whereas complex PTSD results from multiple repetitions of trauma. I had multiple traumas as a child which I have reported in pufferfish stories parts 1 through 5. And also there are two more sagas which I experienced as a teen but haven't reported as a pufferfish story (yet).

Yes, I was unable to escape. As a 4-year-old I remember initially resisting what happened in pufferfish story part 1 (triggering):

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...2889#Post212889

In pufferfish story part 5, I was taken captive and held against my will. There I was sexually abused and tortured, starved and isolated in semi-darkness. I was forced to perform sex-acts on other boys and I saw another boy killed next to me. I was tied with cleverly tied hemp ropes. Results were devastating.

Very triggering and unhappy stuff:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...9028#Post219028

So I have been through years of counseling (therapy). I have experienced a lot of relief from symptoms.

I have been eager to discuss this subject. I'm going to close out this post in hopes to come back to it later, with more detailed reporting of the book I just cited.

Puffer



Edited by pufferfish (04/25/13 09:08 PM)

Top
#432454 - 04/25/13 10:02 PM " [Re: pufferfish]
lbcali1978 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/12
Posts: 217
"


Edited by lbcali1978 (04/29/13 02:04 AM)
_________________________
They said

Come home

I said

I'm confused and alone

They said

We understand

I found out they don't

I'll walk the path exactly how I've always done it

Alone

Top
#432469 - 04/25/13 11:47 PM Re: Complex PTSD [Re: lbcali1978]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Complex PTSD

I think there are lots of guys here who have had it much worse than I did.

Puffer

Top
#432473 - 04/26/13 12:13 AM Re: Complex PTSD [Re: hapati]
genedebs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/12
Posts: 287
Loc: MO
Dear Hap, Puff, and all,

I have been diagnosed for the last 8 years with Diagnosis of extreme stress not otherwise specified (DESNOS). This will be the new DSM language for Complex PTSD.

As a child I experienced traumatic events on a weekly basis. Some were physical abuse of me, others of my siblings and mostly of my mother. They stop collecting data on DESNOS trauma at 100 events. I had met this criteria before I first experienced child sexual molestation. The idea that we choose to stay, or are unable to leave, means a whole new meaning to the idea of choice.

When the choice is to self report abuse, to confront parents, and the legal system are expecting too much from 6 or even 10 year olds. To run away to the streets is even greater self defeating behavior. So it is that being unable to escape is perhaps an overly tight definition.

We all have differrent stories, and we all are just the same.

Puff, and any other people who say some had it worse than others. It was all too much for any of us to survive, and recovery takes more effort they we ever imagined.

Top
#432474 - 04/26/13 12:37 AM Re: Complex PTSD [Re: hapati]
hapati Offline


Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 40
Loc:
not a shrink here - survivor.

these are the symptoms of complex ptsd.
--

1. A history of subjection to totalitarian control over a prolonged period (months to years). Examples include hostages, prisoners of war, concentration-camp survivors, and survivors of some religious cults. Examples also include those subjected to totalitarian systems in sexual and domestic life, including those subjected to domestic battering, child physical or sexual abuse, and organized sexual exploitation.

2. Alterations in affect regulation, including
persistent dysphoria
chronic suicidal preoccupation
self-injury
explosive or extremely inhibited anger (may alternate)
compulsive sexuality or extremely inhibited sexuality (may alternate)

3. Alterations in consciousness, including
amnesia or hypermnesia for traumatic events
transient dissociative episodes
depersonalization/derealization
reliving experiences, either in the form of intrusive post-traumatic stress symptoms or in the form of ruminative preoccupation

4. Alterations in self-perception, including
sense of helplessness or paralysis of initiative
shame, guilt, and self-blame
sense of defilement or stigma
sense of complete difference from others (may include sense of specialness, utter aloneness, belief no other person can understand, or nonhuman identity)

5. Alterations in perception of perpetrator, including
preoccupation with relationship with perpetrator (includes preoccupation with revenge)
unrealistic attribution of total power to perpetrator (caution: victim's assessment of power realities may be more realistic than clinician's)
idealization or paradoxical gratitude
sense of special or supernatural relationship
acceptance of belief system or rationalizations of perpetrator

6. Alterations in relations with others, including
isolation and withdrawal
disruption in intimate relationships
repeated search for rescuer (may alternate with isolation and withdrawal)
persistent distrust
repeated failures of self-protection

7. Alterations in systems of meaning
loss of sustaining faith
sense of hopelessness and despair

Top
#432479 - 04/26/13 02:09 AM Re: Complex PTSD [Re: hapati]
crazy gecko Offline


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 309
My official diagnosis is PTSD + BPD + Depersonalisation Disorder. I have discussed C-PTSD with my T, and she agrees that I could have been diagnosed with C-PTSD. I fit all the criteria. But considering that I have/had several BPD symptoms that aren't considered to be symptoms of BPD, I'd still have had to be diagnosed with BPD as well. Symptoms such as splitting (seeing people as all good or all bad, no grey areas - I had this really bad. Still struggle with it sometimes), self-injury, Object inconstancy (although I didn't struggle too much with this).

The other thing that is interesting in this context is when you look at attachment theory, and specifically "disorganised attachment" - which what usually forms between a child and an abusive parent. I stumbled upon attachment theory while searching for better ways to parent my child, and had a conversation with a guy who is a specialist in it (he was doing a masters the last time we chatted). It was extremely interesting, particularly the way childhood attachment affects your brain chemistry and brain development. I'll see if I can find the info he gave me again, if anyone is interested...


Edited by crazy gecko (04/26/13 02:11 AM)
_________________________
I guess what I'm trying to say
Is whose life is it anyway because livin'
Living is the best revenge
You can play
-- Def Leppard

My Story, Part 2

My blog

Top
#432481 - 04/26/13 02:20 AM " [Re: crazy gecko]
lbcali1978 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/12
Posts: 217
"


Edited by lbcali1978 (04/29/13 02:00 AM)
_________________________
They said

Come home

I said

I'm confused and alone

They said

We understand

I found out they don't

I'll walk the path exactly how I've always done it

Alone

Top
#432483 - 04/26/13 03:39 AM Re: Complex PTSD [Re: lbcali1978]
crazy gecko Offline


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 309
Originally Posted By: lbcali1978

I'm not so sure that passing his Mastery work from school over to someone is very wise to do. Unless he gave you permission to. It could bring about unfavorable results if discovered and not wanted by him. Even if he gave you the information.

He didn't give me his Mastery work - just info and some articles that answered some of my own questions...
_________________________
I guess what I'm trying to say
Is whose life is it anyway because livin'
Living is the best revenge
You can play
-- Def Leppard

My Story, Part 2

My blog

Top
#432484 - 04/26/13 04:10 AM " [Re: crazy gecko]
lbcali1978 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/12
Posts: 217
"


Edited by lbcali1978 (04/29/13 02:00 AM)
_________________________
They said

Come home

I said

I'm confused and alone

They said

We understand

I found out they don't

I'll walk the path exactly how I've always done it

Alone

Top
#432597 - 04/26/13 11:58 PM Re: Complex PTSD [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pufferfish
Originally Posted By: hapati
Anyone been a victim of these things...

"...all repeated traumas in which there is an actual or perceived inability for the victim to escape."

I put in the bold the parts I thought were important.

Anyone had help with/therapy with an expert in Complex PTSD or been diagnosed ? Any thoughts ?

--

Complex post-traumatic stress disorder (C-PTSD) is a psychological injury that results from protracted exposure to prolonged social and/or interpersonal trauma in the context of either captivity or entrapment (a situation lacking a viable escape route for the victim), which results in the lack or loss of control, helplessness, and deformations of identity and sense of self. C-PTSD is distinct from, but similar to, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), somatization disorder, dissociative identity disorder, and borderline personality disorder.

C-PTSD involves complex and reciprocal interactions between multiple biopsychosocial systems. It was first described in 1992 by Judith Herman in her book Trauma & Recovery. Forms of trauma associated with C-PTSD include sexual abuse (especially child sexual abuse), physical abuse, emotional abuse, domestic violence or torture—all repeated traumas in which there is an actual or perceived inability for the victim to escape.

It may help to understand the intersection of attachment theory with C-PTSD and BPD if one reads the following opinion of Bessel A. van der Kolk together with an understanding drawn from a description of BPD:

Uncontrollable disruptions or distortions of attachment bonds precede the development of post-traumatic stress syndromes. People seek increased attachment in the face of danger. Adults, as well as children, may develop strong emotional ties with people who intermittently harass, beat, and, threaten them. The persistence of these attachment bonds leads to confusion of pain and love. Trauma can be repeated on behavioural, emotional, physiologic, and neuroendocrinologic levels. Repetition on these different levels causes a large variety of individual and social suffering. Anger directed against the self or others is always a central problem in the lives of people who have been violated and this is itself a repetitive re-enactment of real events from the past. Compulsive repetition of the trauma usually is an unconscious process that, although it may provide a temporary sense of mastery or even pleasure, ultimately perpetuates chronic feelings of helplessness and a subjective sense of being bad and out of control. Gaining control over one's current life, rather than repeating trauma in action, mood, or somatic states, is the goal of healing.

Seeking increased attachment to people, especially to care-givers who inflict pain, confuses love and pain and increases the likelihood of a captivity like that of betrayal bonding, (similar to Stockholm syndrome) and of disempowerment and lack of control. If the situation is perceived as life threatening then traumatic stress responses will likely arise and C-PTSD more likely diagnosed in a situation of insecure attachment than PTSD.


I relate strongly to this post.

I came across the concept of complex PTSD in a book I obtained from Amazon.com. Psychological Trauma and the Developing Brain. Neurologically Based Interventions for Troubled Children, by Phyllis Stien and Joshua Kendall.

http://www.amazon.com/Psychological-Trauma-Developing-Brain-Neurologically/dp/0789017881/

This book goes deeply into the topic of complex PTSD. It seems without a doubt that I have had this. I had sought to understanding the relationships between the variety of symptoms I experienced and understanding of modes of treatment. I have or had DID, PTSD, ADHD-like symptoms, dyslexia, depression. I also had complex social isolation problems and became without a voice. I have had a number of years of therapy from professionals for these conditions.

Briefly stated, PTSD results from a single exposure to a trauma whereas complex PTSD results from multiple repetitions of trauma. I had multiple traumas as a child which I have reported in pufferfish stories parts 1 through 5. And also there are two more sagas which I experienced as a teen but haven't reported as a pufferfish story (yet).

Yes, I was unable to escape. As a 4-year-old I remember initially resisting what happened in pufferfish story part 1 (triggering):

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...2889#Post212889

In pufferfish story part 5, I was taken captive and held against my will. There I was sexually abused and tortured, starved and isolated in semi-darkness. I was forced to perform sex-acts on other boys and I saw another boy killed next to me. I was tied with cleverly tied hemp ropes. Results were devastating.

Very triggering and unhappy stuff:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...9028#Post219028

So I have been through years of counseling (therapy). I have experienced a lot of relief from symptoms.

I have been eager to discuss this subject. I'm going to close out this post in hopes to come back to it later, with more detailed reporting of the book I just cited.



The book I cited is rather neat because it combines all these symptoms into a single syndrome, C-PTSD. It greatly helps to understand how they relate to each other.

Social anxiety is a part of this ball of wax.

Unfortunately, the book I'm talking about is not easy reading.

Puffer



Edited by pufferfish (04/27/13 12:01 AM)

Top
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