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#432458 - 04/25/13 10:22 PM Was I responsible for the assaults?
ThisMan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/13
Posts: 767
Loc: upper south
It's official. Today wasn't a really good T session. I can honestly say I heard more than one comment that I thought should have been more carefully filtered before it came out of the mouth of someone I need to trust.

The first.... she said I "wasn't being realistic" when I said I was disappointed in my alcoholic friend who had gotten drunk and stood me up on a casual meeting. I said I thought I was special enough not to be placed in a back corner and pulled out at someone convenience. And that it upset me to be treated like that. ... but I'm not "being realistic". I'm not certain if it was the alcoholism or my expectations of friendship she was referring to. I didn't want to pursue that because she knows my friend.......

The second.... I am an emotional oaf when it comes to relationships. I don't want one. Period... at least until I find a nice contentment within myself. But everyone I see in a dating situation wants to become serious almost immediately.

"T", I say, "I say I do not want a significant other or relationship to the person I am with- male or female. I would love the friendship. It's like they don't listen." And then I explained the most recent. The person says something like, "I even dream of you in my sleep". WTF. You can't be a decent, nice person to someone and expect them not to go gaga.?

Her reply. "Well, what are you doing to cause this? What is your part in this?" In other words, even though I say, these are my emotional boundaries and if you as a person step into that area, you will come back alone. Her take is that I must being doing something to cause these recent situations...the medical lady and this new friend, to be "smitten".

And then she explained further. She continued to ramble looking for explanation and she came up with this.... "you, b, confuse them (people in general). You had a long and healthy marriage. Thats a long hetero relationship. You a had a lengthy relationship with a man (not at the same time as the marriage). And you are just getting it from both ends. Then she laughed and I just looked at the corner and rubbed my head. "Getting it from both ends." ??????

Tonight I have twisted this around to understand that I am the one responsible for their reactions- and maybe I am- but also on some level if I myself cause this even with the boundaries I have, then I must also be greatly responsible for the rapes I have had. To simplify, I am responsible. It was my fault. My mind is saying the rapes were my fault.

The T could surely have not meant this. But why would someone say this, knowing that you are looking at a RAPE victim. "Well, you confuse people. So you are getting it from both ends..." It took so much out of me to begin therapy, to share the stories.

But hell, if it was my fault, I could go say to the perps...all of them, and say... "hey, guys. MFs, I am so sorry I enticed you with my looks and my body. I didn't mean to be a little boy, or an adolescent or a teenager. I didn't mean to be middle age. It just all happened. My outgoing personality and extreme trust in your motives are entirely my fault. I didn't mean to cause you to gain an erection while I was in a vulnerable state of being and then have you use your erection to enter my body. I am so fuckin' sorry." (yep- my sarcasm is back.)

Well, needless to say, I am sort of numb and holding back the tears. But I am, after all, taking it from both ends. I just get so tired of feeling responsible. I don't feel guilty at all, but I am beginning to feel responsible. One thing for certain though, I don't want to be responsible for redirecting my T so she will have the empathy and sensitivity to not make sexual remarks in jest... sort of like gay bashing, if you will. And me, here I am after 6 months of therapy again wondering if I was responsible for being raped.
_________________________
For now we see through a glass, darkly.



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#432463 - 04/25/13 10:42 PM Re: Was I responsible for the assaults? [Re: ThisMan]
csasurvivor1992 Offline


Registered: 03/25/13
Posts: 132
Loc: Texas
you were not responsible at all. i am shocked with you that your T would have such a prominent role in you feeling this way. obviously, i don't know the whole story, but i may suggest seeking out a new T. take some time to think it over with a clearer mind, but that may be the end result.

i am there with you. i am wondering how this happened? i am wondering how i am the one in therapy trying to regain my life. is this my fault? everyone seems to think i'm making a bigger deal of this than it is. i am angry at them for allowing their comments to take me to this awful place.

thisman, i am sorry this happened and you feel this way. i hope better for you tomorrow.
_________________________
May your past be the sound of your feet upon the ground, carry on. ~Fun.

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#432465 - 04/25/13 10:59 PM Re: Was I responsible for the assaults? [Re: ThisMan]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1046
This Man,

Start shopping for a new T. There are better ones out there than the one you have.

You were not responsible for being raped as a boy. Listen to yourself. How could you have been responsible?

In your next T session, you should think about bringing up the "taking it at both ends" comment and tell your T it was inappropriate and hurtful. And she laughed when she said it? WAAYYYY out of line.

Don't let her get away with that. You're paying her; you're the boss. If she doesn't apologize, then walk.

Cant
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#432466 - 04/25/13 11:23 PM Re: Was I responsible for the assaults? [Re: ThisMan]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1600
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: ThisMan
The first.... she said I "wasn't being realistic" when I said I was disappointed in my alcoholic friend who had gotten drunk and stood me up
As a recovering alcoholic, I can say that it may not be realistic to expect an active alcoholic to keep promises, or follow through on anything.
Originally Posted By: ThisMan
"I say I do not want a significant other or relationship to the person I am with- male or female.....Her reply. "Well, what are you doing to cause this? What is your part in this?"
The "what are you doing to cause this?" question is out of bounds. You'r not responsible for other people's actions. The "what is your part in this?" question is fair though. Despite your clearly marking your boundries, if you are dating anyone, male or female, they may choose not to hear you if that doesn't match their agenda. People just naturally look for attachments. Maybe you should consider alternative ways of meeting friends, other than dating.
Originally Posted By: ThisMan
And then she explained further......And you are just getting it from both ends. Then she laughed....
This was totally inappropriate and unprofessional. In my mind this is grounds for firing her. I know the prospect of starting over with a new T is not a pleasant one, but this T may damage you more than she helps.
Originally Posted By: ThisMan
To simplify, I am responsible. It was my fault. My mind is saying the rapes were my fault.
NO, NO, NO. None of it was your fault. None of it was your responsibility. You can take responsibility only for your own actions, so unless you asked to be raped, there is no blame for you. And for the assaults that took place when you were a kid, even a kid who seeks the sexual attention of an adult is not at fault. A kid doesn't have the wisdom or experience to make such a decision. An adult understands where the boundries should be, and if he/she choose to violate them, thats totally their fault, not yours. Don't take this on yourself.

There are no circumstances in which a child is at fault for being molested. There are no circumstances in which an adult is at fault for being sexually assaulted.
_________________________
Seems I've got to have a change of scene
Every night I have the strangest dreams
Imprisoned by the way it could have been
Left here on my own or so it seems
I've got to leave before I start to scream
Joe Cocker

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#432467 - 04/25/13 11:29 PM Re: Was I responsible for the assaults? [Re: ThisMan]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 918
Loc: New York
The "both ends" comment is a red flag SO red you can use it to measure the age and distance of stars. She deserves to be confronted for that.

But I think I lean towards agreeing with Jude about the "your role in relationships" comment. If you're dating someone and just want to be friends, and those date-ees turn out to be much more intensely attracted to you, it's entirely plausible that someone who IS looking for a relationship (as in, those date-ees) would see it as a major plus that you have proven yourself capable of maintaining functioning long-term happy healthy relationships with both women and men.

People don't date to look for friends.

People also are never responsible for their own sexual assaults.

Just so that's cleared up....


Matt
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of Heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#432470 - 04/25/13 11:52 PM Re: Was I responsible for the assaults? [Re: cant_remember]
BraveFalcon Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/25/13
Posts: 1147
Loc: The ATL
Originally Posted By: ThisMan

Tonight I have twisted this around to understand that I am the one responsible for their reactions- and maybe I am- but also on some level if I myself cause this even with the boundaries I have, then I must also be greatly responsible for the rapes I have had. To simplify, I am responsible. It was my fault. My mind is saying the rapes were my fault.

The T could surely have not meant this. But why would someone say this, knowing that you are looking at a RAPE victim. "Well, you confuse people. So you are getting it from both ends..." It took so much out of me to begin therapy, to share the stories.

But hell, if it was my fault, I could go say to the perps...all of them, and say... "hey, guys. MFs, I am so sorry I enticed you with my looks and my body. I didn't mean to be a little boy, or an adolescent or a teenager. I didn't mean to be middle age. It just all happened. My outgoing personality and extreme trust in your motives are entirely my fault. I didn't mean to cause you to gain an erection while I was in a vulnerable state of being and then have you use your erection to enter my body. I am so fuckin' sorry." (yep- my sarcasm is back.)


Hi Thisman. I would say you should tell your T exactly what you just told us here. Lay it out for her in exactly this way. Let her know why her "therapeutic input" confused you and make her reconcile the conundrum. I would be interested to hear what she has to say. If she can't sort it out for you and clearly explain the difference, I'd suggest finding a different T.

Of course, we all know that you weren't responsible for the assaults either as a child or as an adult. Also, you can't be held responsible for someone being attracted to you. They either are or they aren't. Sure, the attracted person could argue that they can't help being attracted to you but they can help how they handle that attraction.

On that note, I have to separate the issue of adult attraction to children from the issue of adult attraction to adults. When you are a child, if an adult (pedophile) is attracted to you, it is not your responsibility to set boundaries or to tell them you are not interested in a sexual encounter/relationship. The boundary is the fact that you are a child alone. Any adult who does not respect that boundary is a sexual predator and the child is in no way responsible for it, or ever possibly could be responsible for it, PERIOD! A child should never, ever even have to be faced with having to say "no" or, "I'm sorry, I just like you as a friend" or, "I'm not interested in a relationship". To even suggest that they should would be ridiculous. When you are a child, it should never come close to going even that far and if it does, even that alone is sexual abuse.

Of course, between two adults it's a little different. The boundaries aren't the same but they are still there if and when one sets them. Another adult may not be able to "help" their attraction to you, but all you should need to say is "no", or "I'm sorry, I just like you as a friend" or, "I'm not interested in a relationship". As an adult, yeah, it is your responsibility to set those boundaries but once you have set them, they should be respected and when they are not, the other person involved is crossing the line. When the other person involved has so little respect for the boundaries you've set that they cross the line into sexual assault, then you are no more responsible for that assault than any child victim of CSA is.

That's my 2 cents on your conundrum and I hope it makes some sense. Take care. Peace,

Ken

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#432492 - 04/26/13 05:35 AM Re: Was I responsible for the assaults? [Re: SoccerStar]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: SoccerStar
The "both ends" comment is a red flag SO red you can use it to measure the age and distance of stars. She deserves to be confronted for that.

If a second voice helps TM, that comment is so inappropriate and lacking in empathy - from a PROFESSIONAL for chrissakes - that imo it's time to find another T and not spend another dime on this one. There are times in therapy when joking is appropriate. This is NOT one of 'em.

Oh, it's just one comment. But it's a slip on her part that gives you some good information about her and gives you an excellent indication on how she seriously she takes your issues.

Secondly, there's clearly, imo, a potential conflict of interest if she "knows" your alcoholic friend. When my T at the time posed a "hypothetical" on a friendship I'd dumped because of his ongoing codependent "crazies", he asked how I'd want to know if he was treating the friend as well. My answer was a resounding "no". Subsequently, I assumed my T was treating him, but I didn't care and still said exactly what was on my mind when/if it came up (more a function of earlier therapies).

I had a situation this year with a T regarding how he and an osteopath "fed" clients to each other...which is illegal in my state (I could have turned him in). I confronted him during a session for which I refused to pay and then dumped him a few days later with a phone call. What I'm saying is that it's perfectly fine to dump this one. You can be businesslike and detached...and you don't have to be nicey-nice about it either.

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#432538 - 04/26/13 03:01 PM Re: Was I responsible for the assaults? [Re: ThisMan]
ThisMan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/13
Posts: 767
Loc: upper south
Of course I am not responsible for being hurt and used as a boy. What a ridiculous thing to allow to creep into my psychic after all the work I have done. Thanks, guys, for the responses. My line of logic was so flawed in that process... I am like the poster of "I think too much...". I was just thinking too much. If I were still flexible enough, I would kick myself in the back side for bringing those words home with me. Utterly fucked up, .... taking it in both ends.... just fucked up T session AND fucked up T comment. (And for a few hours fucked me up too- not anymore.) And by no way, shape, behavior, attitude, etc., was I responsible for the ASA. Man, I am sorry I started down that road again, gentlemen. Thanks very very much for being there to off-set this for me.

Still offended about the joke of taking it from both ends, but Mr. b knows how to get clarification on that one. And how to lead into the needed explanation without a trace of her feeling that I am challenging her "expertise". Which I should do. She is very good with CSA issues. She is very much ill at ease with the ASA and her only experience is with females. Soooooo..... I gotta go soon. Find another.

And as far as my daily behavior in a social setting tending to lead people on. I don't think so. I am a respectful, well-mannered southern gentleman. I do not sasss-shaaaay, preen, rub myself inappropriately, or any of the stuff I have seen. I might say I flip my hair once in awhile at dinner, but I have none.

... the potential conflict with relationship with the friend and myself.... well, that just won't work. Regardless of her views or relationship with someone else, I am paying her to let me be free with my thoughts and feelings. My dime, my time.

Hope all this doesn't sound arrogant, and I know it does...but I can't let the confidence I have gained go by the wayside. It was too much work, too much pain, and too much realizing that I am someone special in the world. You guys have seen me standing in the dark, and heard me cry out loud. Just like we all do, especially when we begin to discover the extent of the pain of what was done to us. I want the light. Always the light. Gotta work to keep from sliding back, but I will.

Today... Angels, my friends.
b.
_________________________
For now we see through a glass, darkly.



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#432539 - 04/26/13 03:31 PM Re: Was I responsible for the assaults? [Re: ThisMan]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
"My dime, my time." Excellent TM. Can I use it?

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#432567 - 04/26/13 07:26 PM Re: Was I responsible for the assaults? [Re: ThisMan]
bodyguard8367 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/26/14 11:07 PM)

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