Great conversation, Irish. To me it's especially interesting because only a few years ago, right here, there was a lot of real angst about SSA and if the discussion included Reparative Therapy seemed like everyone would be offended one way or the other and an online brawl would ensue. Bam! before you knew it discussion CLOSED! Today, you guys are having an intelligent, respectful conversation, very honest, very insightful, non-shaming and no drama! What a change from the past, which itself wasn't that long ago. What a breath of fresh air! All you guys, THANKS for sharing and for your refreshing, healthy openness, it's certainly made my day!
Gary / 1.healing
"It's never too late to be what you might have been."
Loc: PDX- Portland OR
For some of us, going out and making gay friends is the answer. It allows us to develop admirable friends who are gay and through them we challenge our view of gay.
Lots of times we segregate our SSA instead of integrate it. As long as it is a "dirty little secret" we can still look down at ourselves, as long as we don't associate with gay men and primarily look to straight men as role models we will not develop a way to look at our SSA as a blossoming gay orientation. We need not fear our SSA, but embrace it as our birthright or our natural state. When we do, and develop gay friendships, it is only a matter of time until we accept our orientation.
There will be no certainty until there is certainty. I had the exact same issues, attracted but really terrified. Met an amazing woman the mother of my children but somehow I was never there. Why couldn't I get with the program.
It was only after really being with a guy, I summoned the courage to meet a man and after the experience, I knew I was not bi. Finally told my wife, years of tears, and pain and therapy and confusion ( one T said if I was just 2% str8 I needed to stay). more T ( my ex got a guy that specialized in male CSA) and that really changed things. Compassion for myself and my ex and my frozen little boy.
Baby steps at dating were not easy cuz I am an old teenager, missed all the batting practice. It was only when I decided to give up dating and just " hang out" no sex intended or on the table just meet another nice gay guy. We met at the gym, I was getting a sip of water, he looked across, smiled and winked and my heart did a backflip. I tried to be cool as I said goodnight, we kissed just a friendly really, but we looked in each others eyes and then we kissed. It was like the movies, honestly an instant inferno and we have now been together 8 months.
Go slow the others are right, we missed the orientation part of the exercise about orientation( pun intended). So ya we are awkward but that's what makes us charming. In terms of knowing if it was us or the CSA, some clues:
These are indicators that a kid would have been or will be likely gay. 1. eyes. do you look at men more. studies show that mens eyes will dialate more when attracted to the same sex. women were horny for both aka more fluid sexuality THE EYES HAVE IT ! http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22870196
2. Gender non conformity. You did what? yup you playing with GI moes was definitely a tell. Turns out gender non conformity was also identified as a predictor for less well being later in life, go figure. I actually told my parents I was a "tomgirl" around my 8th birthday. wtf? also occasionally put on my moms dresses, but not into drag now for some reason ( I went the other way and hypermasculinized) and I also learned to cook and took gymnastics so I can flex and bend in ways that is completely inappropriate.
This also makes us at greater risk for abuse(the non conformity not the gymnastics), and later PTSD http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/02/ptsd/ Men who ranked in the top 10th percentile of childhood gender-nonconformity reported a higher prevalence of sexual and physical abuse before age 11 and psychological abuse between ages 11 and 17 compared with those below the median of nonconformity. I was 11. He knew.
3. MEMORIES, streisand does it to us everytime. Old study found that most str8 boys played it str8 as children, and the gays not so much.http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/BF01542255.pdf
5.As a kid who did you hang out with? I kissed a lot of girls when I was in grade 2 cuz I hung out with them at recess as much as I did with boys. oh and I was always robin to someone's batman, I actually just remembered that. this scientific American report says yup, by age two some of this is set. http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beri...al-orientation/
6. You were a less likely to play team sports. I was a sporty kid but hated soccer, lacrosse, and hockey our national sport, go figure. But I excelled in ping pong, tennis and later volleyball and basketball where man to man defense was kind of fun. I actually remember a coach egging me on to stay on my check like stink. More gay men are into individual sports like wrestling, swimming etc ( my friend's son only dresses as princesses or some other drag shit or wrestlers in singlettes for Halloween - hmm? )however, two of my buddies and my bf said rugby helped them with the male bonding and touching in a acceptable forum. My bf said he just realized in his later 20's that he wasn't looking at his gf in the stands anymore, just the boys.
7. Controversy warning, a few reports have suggested and I think it will come as no surprise to anyone here that for males but not females that early childhood sexual abuse correlates with greater homosexual activity as an adult. IT STILL DOES NOT MEAN IT IS A CHOICE, just that there may be stronger imprinting with fetishes, paraphilias. I am strongly am attracted to men who really smell like men, I hate cologne, my partner knows not to use deodorant. My abuser never bathed much, my T said it is likely a contributing factor. When I was married, sex was a well scrubbed event. It did not trigger any of the same centers in my brain.
8. "I am big , its the pictures that got small". Any home movies or pictures will often reveal gender nonconformity in a prehomosexual that is evocative of what happens in later life. We were better actors from an early age, then we had to be later on. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18194004
Hope this helps, its not absolutely conclusive of course, but the preponderance of evidence is that if you have homosexual feelings now, you likely did then. For me , I know the CSA repressed all that. So at 50+ its all so new but honestly all so wonderful. God I love to shop.
Good luck irish be yourself, your all you've got baby steps and then who knows? but not exploring is not being true to your potential self.
but its like Sheldon said about Schrodinger's cat. you can't know til you open the box
Edited by 1lifenow (08/13/1306:38 PM)
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama
Much of that does resonate. I may be unrealistic at this point in time to be longing for some sort of conclusive answer that's why I'm trying to focus on overall acceptance no matter what. I read something like this and it makes sense, but then I lay with a female friend last night and was completely aroused.
I try to stick around here and read and ask questions even when the subject isn't occupying every single thought because I truly don't want to be stuck in the same cycle years from now...Logically I know I need to get out of my head and experience life more as these aren't questions anyone can answer for me but it's all easier said then done.
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