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#431317 - 04/15/13 01:42 PM HOW!?!
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1399
Loc: California
I heard this yesterday, and I believe it to be true.

But I'm struggling with how to apply this to my OWN life.

"If you want to live in a state of connection, and you want to experience divinity in your life, then love and accept everything. Because that's how God and the divine loves." - Panache Desai

That's a great quote, and a brilliant way to live. But I have no idea how to apply this to my own life. For the 2 disabilities I was born with (severe hearing loss, and crossed eyes/double vision). These 2 disabilities have crippled my ability to relate to others.

Add to that the neglect at CSA I suffered while growing up with 2 disabilities.

The quote above tells me that I should love this, love the pain, love the trauma. How the hell do I accomplish this? How the hell do I love and accept trauma, pain and loneliness?

HOW!?!
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

Loving Kindness Meditation will dramatically improve your spirits; give it a try for just 3 days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz7cpV7ERsM

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#431319 - 04/15/13 02:04 PM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
It is nice to be divine like God but we are poor humans with high spirits and weak bodies.
It is a little bit easier for me if I acknowledge that to myself from time to time, it would be even better if I could accept it in full wink
_________________________
My story

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#431332 - 04/15/13 03:10 PM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
Jacob S Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 594
I don't know. I don't even know if that's what you should be going for. I guess if it resonates with you than that means there is something in it that you should explore. But personally I don't agree with that quite. I'm not trying to argue it, just to say its not the only opinion. I don't think we have a problem accepting things. Between the CSA and your disabilities, I would bet money that you are already better at accepting the shittiness of life than most people. Absolutely learn to accept yourself. Absolutely learn when to step back, to pick your battles. But (and again this is just my opinion) there is real ugliness in the world and we should never learn to love or accept that. We should learn how to stand against it, to not let ourselves become obsessed with it or hurt by it, but never to love it. I've never met Desai so I can't speak about him, but the people I've met who claim to live a life of total acceptance really spend a lot of their life in denial of anything that is not inside their tightly controlled world. That's just been my experience though. I spent my childhood being told that I was to accept things and that fighting for my own needs was wrong. As an adult, I believe that I have to use my limited energy to pick my battles. But that would never mean I love and accept the evil things that happen.

I'm not trying to fight here, just to give an alternate view.
_________________________
Like a spent gladiator
crawling in the colosseum dust
who can count on his remaining limbs
all the people he can trust.
Like the one who stands behind him
cheering him on
Estatic when he stands defiant,
wild with abandon when he's gone

just stay alive.
do whatever you need to.
you are worth it.

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#431333 - 04/15/13 03:56 PM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1506
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Magellan
I was born with (severe hearing loss, and crossed eyes/double vision)....Add to that the neglect at CSA I suffered while growing up with 2 disabilities.... The quote above tells me that I should love this, love the pain, love the trauma. How the hell do I accomplish this? How the hell do I love and accept trauma, pain and loneliness?


Suggestion: You can begin to love and find meaning in those disabilities and trauma by using them to help others. There is a world of people experiencing pain and loneliness who could benefit from what you have learned in your years of recovery

"The miracle is not that we do this work, but that we are happy to do it."
-Mother Teresa

Jude
_________________________
"I get up, and nothing gets me down.
You got it tough. I've seen the toughest around.
And I know, baby, just how you feel.
You've got to roll with the punches to get to what's real"
Van Halen

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#431336 - 04/15/13 05:03 PM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1305
Quote:
The quote above tells me that I should love this, love the pain, love the trauma. How the hell do I accomplish this? How the hell do I love and accept trauma, pain and loneliness?

Hi, Magellan. I wonder if that may be putting a bit too literal a twist on the meaning. I think the message is about deeper truths - learning grace and acceptance for what you cannot change. It is about not becoming the "angry man," about avoiding the downhill emotional run into rage and indignation, becoming a monument to the betrayal of trust.

The way I interpret this is that we don't have to love and accept the betrayal itself. Acceptance does not mean we embrace it, or even wish for it, but that we still love and accept ourselves. And that anger over what we have no control over is futile. Again - just my interpretation.

I recently saw a PBS special about Richard Nixon - of all people to bring up here. But in his farewell address before he walked away from everything he was about - as he stepped down from from the pinnacle of his life to slide into obscurity and irrelevance, he said something similar:

Originally Posted By: Richard Nixon
Always remember, others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them, and then you destroy yourself.

Truth for me is this: the person who hurt me doesn't win unless my life becomes about him. That happens when I am angry. When I was molested, he was the wave that controlled me. The ripples of that abuse still travel as waves of anger - and I am still controlled by him when I choose to be driven by those waves. It's so simple, but it took me a long time to really understand that. So the quote by Panache Desai makes a lot of sense to me. For me, stepping away from anger can be the ultimate expression of self-empowerment. And it is a much nicer place to be.

There are very few times in my life that anger was a useful emotion. Many were the times it just added to the problems that caused the anger in the first place. One of the great paradoxes I have learned on my journey here is that indulgence in anger is far more justifiable than wise.
_________________________



Click my pic to see why I'm here

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#431400 - 04/16/13 04:32 AM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
Leaning with Jacob and Chase on this one. fwiw, I'd be suspicious of someone like Desai who promotes himself as, "your friendly neighborhood enlightened being" and appears on Oprah.

Case in point, when I was diagnosed with HIV over 20 years ago, Louise Hay was all the rage among the HIV/AIDS community. She has some good ideas, sells lots of books and CDs. But, she often contradicts herself. She, for example, roundly criticizes those who say, "THIS is the only way," and then later says it about her own philosophies.

In short, I'd take Desai with a grain of salt. Take what you like and leave the rest. imo, a "spiritual" self-promoter like this is a setup for people like us. If I don't achieve the Nirvana this prophet espouses, well then, there must be something wrong with ME...and I'll just add that to my list of failures, not being good enough, etc. In my experience, there's been no shortcut for $12.95 in paperback or $24.95 with CD. (You may recall we had one of those charlatans here on MS several months ago).

Love the anger, pain and trauma? I suppose it made me more empathetic. But, no, I don't love it. It's quite literally taken me a lifetime to pick up the pieces, a bit like when I've put a broken ceramic flower pot back together. I'm good at it. I get a great deal of personal satisfaction being able to see it and use it again. But, if you look closely, the repairs are obvious.

As far as the "forgiving" rubbish, best I've ever been able to do is understand the dynamic of some of those abusive personalities who raised me. And, without hesitation I'll say I relish the schadenfreude - one of my favorite words - as the last of 'em reaps her own karma. And I didn't have to do a thing except walk away from it, as have the healthier, fed up members of what I'll call her former family. My step-sister, a survivor of spousal abuse, had a great quote that describes our feelings about the woman: "What a damn waste," which is a shorthand version of sadness that a woman with so many advantages and talents threw it all away practicing decades of selfishness, self-indulgence, shallowness and cowardice.

I believe, like many of us on MS or in 12-step programs, I've gained insight which I gladly share, whether or not anyone agrees with me. I won't achieve Desai's definition of Nirvana. His opinion does not define me or my recovery. I'm a work in progress and will remain so until I take my last breath.

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#431413 - 04/16/13 09:28 AM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1179
Loc: New York
Hey Magellan,

I am not anti religion and I respect what other people believe so I hope this is not taken as a swipe at any religion. I must also say that I and my wife (really my wife) raised 6 religious kids and I find that I am still playing the religious guy in my community. Only my true friends know how I feel.

That said, I feel that those words are a bunch of crap. How am I a gay man, a prostitute and an infidel where who will go to hell and who is considered the lowest of the low be loved by god with all my religious disabilities. I see that my religious disabilities started at a very young age.

I hated my mother and father (still do). It says something about loving your mother and father or respecting them, but my mother beat me while my father never came to my rescue, he sat and read his books while I was beaten.

I should "Love thy neighbor" who took thousands of pictures of me and her brother. Sold those pictures to anyone willing to buy them. Sold them to all those boy magazines that were sold on the streets of NYC in all the newsstands in the '60s which are now all on the world wide web.

Where was god for the kids while the rabbis of my religion helped to protect the perps while the the children were raped, molested and abused and the families intimidated with excommunication not to talk. mad
Where was god for the kids while while the priests of the catholic church raped, molested and abused all those kids? Where they used alter boys as sacrifices to those perp priests. Where were the heads of the church? mad
Where was god for me while I was used by johns and a couple of janes for 7 years? mad
Where was god for me when that cattle prod was stuck up my ass and turned on? mad
Where was god for me when I was fucked by those bodybuilders like a piece of meat hanging from a doorway? mad
Where was god for me when I was forced to fuck little children for movies under the threat of having that cattle prod stuck up my ass and turned on until I explode? mad
Where was god for those little kids? mad
Where was god for me when I started to stick those needles in my arm at 14 so I could have a little R&R? mad
Where was god for me while this list goes on and on and on? mad mad mad

I don't think that this is the way for god and the devine to love. I tried to believe in that god for 37 years. I walked the walk and talked the talk but I finally realized that I left god in bed the first time I was with a john when I was 12, some 50 years ago.

My kids are religious and my grandchildren are religious and I guess they believe in god but I am suffering by my disabilities. That is not the love I wanted. The love I wanted I finally found here at MS where we are all suffering from various disabilities. But we are all trying to heal from the disability of csa. You are my true friends and loves.

I know that I am being harsh but I do respect other's beliefs that god has brought them through their horrors and they love him. I helped my wife teach my kids to love god. I sometimes wish I could find that love in my religion but that's not to be. This is only my rant against my religion of birth and not my religion of choice. I have no hate against anyone or any belief on this earth, but I have no love either.

Sorry frown.

Peace, Rainbows, Love & Healing
Jeff
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#431420 - 04/16/13 10:02 AM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1039
(((((( Magellan ))))))

We have been given this terrible experience to bear in our lives. Why it happened or how it happened is not for us to know. Either it's part of some cosmic plan, or the universe is a cruel and vicious place.

The idea that our struggles in life are divinely inspired gives us hope that we can learn from them in a way that brings us closer to God. Of course, that could all be bullshit and just another lie we tell ourselves to keep us going through the motions.

((((( Jeff ))))) You have every right to feel abandoned by God, but please don't feel abandoned by us, your brothers.

I don't have answers, just hugs.

Cant
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#431422 - 04/16/13 10:12 AM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
bodyguard8367 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/26/14 10:56 PM)

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#431424 - 04/16/13 10:28 AM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1399
Loc: California
Thanks for all your responses and input, guys.

I have to find a way to stop being angry about being born with disabilities, and I have to find a way to stop being angry about being born as a result of rape.

This anger is going to destroy me, like it has already destroyed my life this far.

"love" and "acceptance" keep popping up over and over and over, and I have no idea how to do this with regards to the shitty life I've been forced to live because of other people's choices.
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

Loving Kindness Meditation will dramatically improve your spirits; give it a try for just 3 days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz7cpV7ERsM

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#431425 - 04/16/13 10:39 AM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
ThisMan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/13
Posts: 767
Loc: upper south
I too am learning on this as well. I choose on purpose to avoid most of the spiritual material I see on the book-shelf. I find most of them to be....well, not so helpful to ME. (With the one exception of "The Four Agreements" by Ruiz.)

If we were accepting of the pain and trauma, and loneliness, then we wouldn't be here. I do not want to be accepting and loving and forgiving of the abuse. I do want to be able to say, "So what? You no longer have control over me. And if you cross the boundary line again, you will be different when you return to your side of life." That's what I want to say. Calmly, with conviction and control.

As far as a god is concerned, that is such a personal belief. I had well-meaning friends who asked me when the spouse died and I withdrew on all levels, "Well, are you angry with God?". Duh?, I silently said. Or, one of my favorites, "It's all in God's plan." God's plan? Four year old children experiencing sex. Nope. Not the God of love and creation. God's plan that the sexed boy finally met someone who valued him as something special on earth, and He takes her away. Surely not something so cruel would come from God. And two days later, his black lab dies! Oh golly.

If He is there, he can handle my confusion and my anger. So I am akin to Jeff on the anger part. And I also have raised my children to believe in God, as they will their children, I hope.

As far as questioning whether the divine does exist or not, I have no doubt on that. I visually saw the divine spirits- and nope- no drugs, no alcohol, no eating of the lawn grass. I was coherent and present in mind, body, and spirit. Can I define what I have seen and experienced- the spiritual energy I encountered- nope. Do I have to? Nope. Does this experience define the rest of my life?- YEP. It is a calming force for me. But it doesn't take away the despair that creeps in because of the abuse.

All that said, I have gotten to the point in life that I finally realized that I am as educated and intelligent (almost) as the vast majority of the world's population. On most days, my life's experiences give me an APPRECIATION of the world other's I see daily may not have. Also a pain, an understanding, if you will. But since we won't get another chance to love life, I am choosing- along with you guys- to work my way through this STUFF and continue to learn and grow and love.

And I hope one day I will again encounter the spiritual beings I was so privileged to have encountered before. Thanks, Magellan, for letting me take a moment to think about acceptance. I feel better.

b






Edited by ThisMan (04/16/13 11:00 AM)
_________________________
For now we see through a glass, darkly.



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#431432 - 04/16/13 11:33 AM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
DavoSwim Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 324
Loc: Iowa, USA
There are many great ideas on this post. I wish to offer my opinions. The only way I have been able to make through the last 30 years is through my faith, which is somewhat ironic seeing that it was a priest that first abused me. It would have been easy for me to abandon my faith. I fully understand why people get angry at God. I don't blame them and don't begrudge them in any way. I don't believe that it is God's plan to see young children abused. On the contrary, I believe it angers him and he will unleash his wrath on those abusers in the next life. God has granted us free will, and has given us guidance on how to use it for the benefit of all. Unfortunately, there are many who embrace evil and use their free will in the most horrific manner. Those of us here can attest to this. I don't believe that we deserve our abuse, and God hasn't abandoned us either. I believe that if God wanted, he could stop the abuse, but if he did, he would not be showing love, for he would be choosing one person over another to be saved. This would be abandonment of those he didn't save. Instead, God has offered us salvation through Christ. Our Holy Father allowed his own son to be tortured and killed, but through his resurrection, Christ has shown that we can overcome evil. For me to believe this is what keeps me going. Through it all, though, there are examples of love and goodness. I think of the support I've received from the guys here at MS. The men I've met here I consider very good friends. My T has also been a wonderful ally and a source of healing. My parents have also given me their support. These examples of love are much stronger than the abuse and have aided my healing I believe that we don't have to love what happened to us, but we do get to love the idea of salvation and redemption. I don't want this to come across as preaching, and I'm not trying to impose my beliefs on anyone else. I'm just explaining how I make sense of the world and what happened to me, plus saying how I make it through every day. Each of us is on his own journey for healing, but, more importantly, we all have to figure out and decide how to live each day. Take care, DavO

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#431434 - 04/16/13 11:44 AM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1305
Originally Posted By: Magellan
This anger is going to destroy me

I believe that is the greatest truth spoken in this thread.
_________________________



Click my pic to see why I'm here

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#431455 - 04/16/13 03:59 PM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1179
Loc: New York
Hey Can't, I am at home here at MS and I feel the love and every one here is my brother. I never had that before I came here, I thank you all.

Hey BG, my grandmother used to try and fatten me up but it didn't work. I am also a fucked up ex prostitute. Were you the other kid I saw in the park smile. Just stay off my corner and I'll stay off yours smile. but seriously I'm impressed the way you think about your disabilities. I try and look at my shit but I haven't gotten to that level just yet.

Hey Magellan, I was in the city this past monday and I was walking around the village looking in the windows and stuff before my T appointment and some young woman in an electric wheelchair passes me. I catch up to her by the next corner waiting for the light to change. She is all deformed and hunched over and frozen in her position in the wheelchair. It seems she can just barely use her joystick to make the chair go. She had a book bag on the back of her chair so I knew she was a NYU college student at least. Someone has to give her the books, I imagine there has to be someone to dress her, feed her and change her cloths etc. That hit me very hard. This woman will never get out of her wheelchair and it made me think about my shit. I would never want to be in her shape but yet she goes to college. Simply amazing. If she can do that then there is hope for me and and others to live with their disabilities, mine being csa. As I went my way still looking in the windows I kept thinking about her and her fortitude. We have to learn to cope with our shit and put it into perspective. It makes me look at myself much differently now.

Peace, Rainbows, Love & Healing
Jeff
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#431460 - 04/16/13 04:18 PM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1399
Loc: California
Yes, when I see people who have similar disabilities that I have, or when I see someone who is obviously suffering a more severe disability, I feel sorry for them.

And I simply cannot comprehend how someone who has severe disability can be happy. I don't understand it. i wish I could, but I don't. I wish I could be that way, but I'm unable to. I've tried and tried. I have no idea how to love being disabled.

I just realized what an ugly person I am - disabled and angry for being disabled. Of course no one wants to be around me. Who wants to be around such horribly negative and ugly energy?

Ugly ugly ugly.

I've suffered too much; I've tried to change everything I can, and I can't bring myself to accept the ugly life and reality I have been forced to live, in spite of all my "recovery" efforts.

I'm disabled and angry about being disabled. What ugliness.
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

Loving Kindness Meditation will dramatically improve your spirits; give it a try for just 3 days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz7cpV7ERsM

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#431461 - 04/16/13 04:35 PM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
lukedamien Offline


Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 68
frown

Gosh maybe this state is like aa state to accept what we cannot change. And to know the difference.




Edited by lukedamien (04/16/13 05:12 PM)

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#431464 - 04/16/13 05:18 PM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1399
Loc: California
That's my point. I can't accept this, no matter how hard I try.

The pain and grief, and the pain and grief that continues BECAUSE I am disabled. It just goes and goes.

I just can't accept it. And I'm angry. And I know how ugly this makes me appear to others.

It's like telling someone "Yeah, too bad. You had to eat shit. But you know? Just accept it. Stop being angry that you had to eat shit for so long and have to continue eating shit for the rest of your life. Just accept it."

Whatever.
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

Loving Kindness Meditation will dramatically improve your spirits; give it a try for just 3 days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz7cpV7ERsM

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#431467 - 04/16/13 05:36 PM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
lukedamien Offline


Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 68
Did you happen to read my other reply that I got rid of? At first I was very angry and lashed out at that quote. But I realized it was just another way of expressing the aa quote. I totally agree with you though. These dudes expect us to just let it go. And move on. They don't know what it's like.

Fuck them. It must be so fucking great to be so fucking perfect.

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#431468 - 04/16/13 05:53 PM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1399
Loc: California
Yeah, I read it. Didn't bother me. Everyone has a right to react to whatever they need to.

I dropped out of AA because of the arrogance of many of the people in that room when I kept talking about my anger issues regarding preceding conditions to my starting to drink. Drinking was not the problem, but they kept insisting that that WAS the problem.

Nonsense.

I'm angry that I was born with two disabilities and angry that my parents never taught me how to love myself and accept my disabilities, and angry that after 18 years of therapy, I'm still struggling with this profound life issue.

Now I can see how UGLY this makes me. I need to let go of this anger but I have no idea how.

It's no wonder why no one wants to date me. I'm ugly as fuck inside.
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

Loving Kindness Meditation will dramatically improve your spirits; give it a try for just 3 days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz7cpV7ERsM

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#431475 - 04/16/13 06:38 PM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1179
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Magellan
And I simply cannot comprehend how someone who has severe disability can be happy. I don't understand it. i wish I could, but I don't. I wish I could be that way, but I'm unable to. I've tried and tried. I have no idea how to love being disabled.

I don't think you mean love being disabled but rather you mean that they are able to even cope with such bad disability like that woman that I saw in that wheelchair.

I feel csa is also a disability just as and IDE is a disability of the mind and body, csa is mainly a disability of the mind. Of course guys get diseases that they wouldn't have gotten if they weren't abused but I think that we are able to cope better with physical aftereffects better than mental aftereffects. That's just my observation but I see that a lot.

As for anyone here at MS I think that nobody would back off from you. I think that since we share the abuses that the regular world can't imagine we are better at handling things you say are not handleable. I guarantee you that I would not flinch. I also saw a young woman pushing a baby carriage yesterday that her face was burnt away. It was all scar tissue. It looked bad. I had to do a double take because I had to make sure of what I thought I saw. And she just walked down the street not hiding her looks at all. That event also hurt me. I still feel for both those people but I saw a strength in them that I do not yet possess.

I don't have any answers but I wish I had the magic to fix it frown.

Peace, Rainbows, Love & Healing
Jeff
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#431476 - 04/16/13 06:47 PM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
lukedamien Offline


Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 68
AA meetings are like that. It's only the booze. But rehab digs deeper.

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#431477 - 04/16/13 06:47 PM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
lapchinj Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1179
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Magellan
....I'm angry that I was born with two disabilities and angry that my parents never taught me how to love myself and accept my disabilities, and angry that after 18 years of therapy, I'm still struggling with this profound life issue.

Now I can see how UGLY this makes me. I need to let go of this anger but I have no idea how.

It's no wonder why no one wants to date me. I'm ugly as fuck inside.



Oh, how I wish I had the magic to help you love yourself. I feel terrible that I can't do anything at all to help you.

I worked for a while in a burn unit while I was in the USAF. I could never get used to it. But what bothered me most where the guys that I was able to talk to even under so much morphine but they were dying. I couldn't take it. I never felt so helpless till now. I'm sorry, really sorry I don't know what to do.

Peace, Rainbows, Love & Healing
Jeff
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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