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#430354 - 04/06/13 02:33 PM Predators, Power Control and Orientation
BuffaloCO Offline


Registered: 07/14/12
Posts: 428
Loc: USA
I'm really trying to move forward in healing, but I keep hearing that those who molested me did so because it was only about a power trip, and their sexual orientation had nothing to do with it at all. I believe both were motivations, as my perps were very sexually gratified by using me. If it was only about a power trip, then why is it that predators select a specific gender and not just grab any kid they can get? I am not saying that anyone deserves any kind of abuse because of a lifestyle choice, unless they are choosing to hurt children and then they belong in prison. I do think that power control, and orientation, are equal partners in at least some cases. For me that means there are people of all sexual orientations, who are also pedophiles, but being a pedophile is not another type of sexual orientation but a deviance associated with some people of all orientations. Confused.
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“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.” - Plato

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#430359 - 04/06/13 05:34 PM Re: Predators, Power Control and Orientation [Re: BuffaloCO]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1045
You don't sound confused to me. Sounds like you got it perfectly.

The idea that rape isn't about sex and only about control is an idea that arose from feminism at some point along the way. It's a warped simplification of the concept of rape that feminists, for some reason, felt benefitted their argument against sexual violence.

But we know better. We know that power and control, for our perps, heightened their sexual arousal, that the power and the sex were combined into one, present at the same time together. This idea that it's either sex or it's violence, one or the other, is bullshit. We all know that the violence only stopped when the perp had his orgasm.

Buffalo, stand strong on your position that it wasn't just about power. That you know they wanted you sexually too. It doesn't matter one way or the other really. Only that when someone tries to tell you something that you know isn't true, you have every right to say, 'no, that's not true.'

Cant


Edited by cant_remember (04/06/13 05:37 PM)
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#430388 - 04/06/13 11:19 PM Re: Predators, Power Control and Orientation [Re: cant_remember]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1561
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: BuffaloCO
....but I keep hearing that those who molested me did so because it was only about a power trip, and their sexual orientation had nothing to do with it at all.
Careful here. It appears that its no so simple. According to the Abel and Harlow Child Molestation Prevention Study, more than 70% of men who molest boys rate themselves as heterosexual in their orientation toward adults, and 9% rate themselves as equally homosexual and heterosexual with adults. Only 8% rate themselves as exclusively homosexual; The majority of pedophiles who molest boys report that they are married, divorced, widowed, or are living with a female partner; Of the pedophiles who molest girls, 21% also report that they molest boys. Of those that molest boys, 53% report that they also molest girls.
Originally Posted By: cant_remember
....We know that power and control, for our perps, heightened their sexual arousal, that the power and the sex were combined into one....
I think you got it right here. Sex is used by pedophiles as a vehicle for gaining power and control over a weaker individual, which in turn heightens the predator's arousal.

Whatever the predator's sexual orientation, it always comes down to one sad fact: What they did to us totally fucked us up.

Jude
_________________________
Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine.
Sheryl Crow

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#430390 - 04/06/13 11:28 PM Re: Predators, Power Control and Orientation [Re: BuffaloCO]
BuffaloCO Offline


Registered: 07/14/12
Posts: 428
Loc: USA
So you found one study, ok. So is that study saying orientation has no role? I think some of them may well be in denial or flat out lying. Whatever their orientation, I'm tired of being told I don't understand what happened to me or who was doing it.
_________________________
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.” - Plato

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#430397 - 04/07/13 01:53 AM Re: Predators, Power Control and Orientation [Re: BuffaloCO]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1561
Loc: New England
Hey C'mon Buff,

Nobody is telling you that you "don't understand what happened to you or who was doing it". None of us know what was going on with your perp's orientation. I'm just cautioning against making generalizations. The old belief that men who molest boys are homosexuals has no more basis in fact that the idea that all boys who are molested by men grow up to be homosexuals, or that all boys who are molested grow up to be molesters.

The study just reports the statistical findings. Believe what you wish, but those numbers do seem to support the view that most men who molest boys identify themselves as heterosexual. There are alternate studies out there but they are all the products of anti-gay organizations.

As I said above, whatever the orientation of our perps, the results for our lives seem to be the same: Totally fucked up. For me, thats all that matters.

Jude
_________________________
Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine.
Sheryl Crow

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#430398 - 04/07/13 01:59 AM Re: Predators, Power Control and Orientation [Re: BuffaloCO]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
I've never jumped into this fray before, but it's a good one...

@Jude...I'd consider the source. The interviewees are guys who are already fucked up sexually and, for the sake of their "straight" appearance might never admit homosexual tendencies. imo, Kinsey is a more reliable barometer, even 60 years later.

From my experience, my perp had at least two gay "friends" on staff at a time when it was all very closeted. However, since my perp had control over the classes and colleges to which I'd apply - not to mention he was arrogant enough to rape me in his office during school hours - it was more about power than any sexual orientation. I believe it's a matter of degrees and I'll go with Buffalo on this.

I'll throw a li'l curve into the discussion...perhaps a little OT. Even today, how many men in "straight" marriages are forced to hook up with men on the DL? Particularly in my tourist-oriented gayborhood it happens all the time. One of my BFFs identifies as bi and, though not married, struggles with it. I won't see it in my lifetime, but perhaps someday society will find a way to move beyond constricting labels.

Now that I'm writing about it, too, perhaps those societal roles were a contributing factor for my perp. (I recognize I'm perhaps being un-PC). He could do it on the DL with someone who wouldn't say a thing.

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#430401 - 04/07/13 02:37 AM Re: Predators, Power Control and Orientation [Re: BuffaloCO]
traveler Online   confused
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3450
Loc: somewhere in Africa
i think there are different motives and different types of abusers. i think i experienced at least 3 different varieties.

1. the step-dad - i don't think he had many if any homosekual tendencies. his treatment of me seemed to be all about anger and inflicting any kind of damage he could - verbal, emotional, physical and sekual. he wanted to hurt and humiliate and punish and torture any way he could. for him it was "power and control." the CSA was merely one of his tools and tactics and not necessarily his favorite or even an enjoyable one.

2. the other boys at school and scouts - it was like mob mentality mixed with bullying mixed with sekual experimentation. some uncontrolled seks games - but mostly enforcing the power and control of the social hierarchy of jock cliques and popular cliques over the underlings and outcasts. i doubt that most of them were gay or turned out with that orientation - though statistically, i suppose it is possible or probable that some may have - but not the majority. i was just more accessible - and none of them went "all the way" with me. so they could maintain their "macho innocence" and blame it on me - because my body reacted. they were just teasing. and though they were the ones who "did" everything - i, as the passive recipient - was the one who got the "queer" label.

3. the stranger - he was a clerk in a tailor shop who measured and fitted me in a private changing room. he was probly in his 30s and i was 15-16. he was unmistakably gay - sorry to anyone who is offended by stereotypes - but he conformed to it. i may have been physically mature - but i was still a minor. and i looked very young everywhere except down there. i was still getting asked for my ID in bars when i was 28. though he may not have fit the definition of pedophilia in that i don't know if he was attracted to very young, pre-pubescent boys (not my description at the time) - i was NOT a consenting adult. i don't believe it had anything to do with power or control - it was all about the sekual kicks for him - and i was too young!

so - i don't really care about the studies and statistics - i can tell you from experience that there are several kinds of abusers - and though i don't think you can make generalizations about all perps being one way or the other - you certainly can't rule orientation out either.

Lee


Edited by traveler (04/07/13 03:12 AM)
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#430408 - 04/07/13 09:32 AM Re: Predators, Power Control and Orientation [Re: Jude]
BuffaloCO Offline


Registered: 07/14/12
Posts: 428
Loc: USA
[Nobody is telling you that you "don't understand what happened to you or who was doing it". None of us know what was going on with your perp's orientation. [/i].

Jude, you did just that and followed up again saying it a second time by telling me I could not know what their thoughts were. They made those thoughts pretty clear so don't tell me my understanding of events "has no basis in fact". The same would be true for any kid who is molested by someone of either gender. I did not say that all people of any one orientation are pedophiles either nor did I generalize, because my first post doesn't say a particular group is more likely to abuse then another. Your's does, yet you are telling me not to go there. Also, don't tell me that one group or orientation is immune from having pedophiles in their ranks or that the numbers in any one orientation are far lower then another group. If you want to believe that most pedophiles are heterosexual you can. I believe that pedophilia is a deviance, and associated with all orientations from straight, bi to yes...gay as well. So saying one group is really immune from that is the myth, in fact I'd call it a lie put out there because it's the politically correct thing to do.

You then followed up with the "well statistics show..." argument. I've heard that argument when people have told me to be careful where I share my story. My T says people will say that "statistics show" that all boys abused grow up to become perps. I don't believe that either, just as I don't believe that all people of any one orientation are more deviant then another. I will, however, speak publicly when I'm further along in T because there are plenty of other myths out there. The worst of which is: it doesn't happen to boys, or boys like it anyway. I'm also not going to write any study off just because of where it came from, simply because "those" people are not part of the acceptable crowd or organization, unless that organization is NAMBLA. With them, I'd pretty much dismiss everything as based in evil. I know too from school that statistics can be written up to show any point the writer wants to make, regardless of the truth behind their argument. If people want to throw down on me for saying that I believe orientation plays a role in selection of victims of either gender they can. I am not saying one group is worse then another, but I'm also tired of hearing, again, that I don't know who my perps were or what their motives were. I am also not going to celebrate anything about my perps, as one person here suggested I needed to do. That applies to me only as I can't speak for others. We all have different stories and shared hurts. I'd like to focus on healing, and leave the PC garbage out of the discussion completely. There are plenty of other sites out there for that.
_________________________
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.” - Plato

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#430412 - 04/07/13 10:06 AM Re: Predators, Power Control and Orientation [Re: BuffaloCO]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3611
Loc: South-East Europe
Hey guys I think that we have consensus here, we all are having similar opinion if not completely the same.
No one said that "gays" can't be abusers.

Buff we don't know nor we have right to discuss and interfere with your personal experience, please be wise and keep it form "public" discussions if it is hurtful for you (I would do it like that if I'm in your position). I'm sure you are aware of many things trough your experience and you have absolute right on your stance. No one can nor should judge you or tell you that you are wrong about it.

Please take care for yourself when you are disusing something as triggering as this, we all have our limits and we have to be very careful with it...

Pero
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My story

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#430424 - 04/07/13 02:27 PM Re: Predators, Power Control and Orientation [Re: BuffaloCO]
BuffaloCO Offline


Registered: 07/14/12
Posts: 428
Loc: USA
Thanks Pero but I don't think we have consensus at all. What you say has not been said, has been said. I am not saying that all people of any one orientation are predators. Also, I'm not triggered by this discussion or I would not have raised the question. What I am is frustrated at being told I do not understand my own experience.
_________________________
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.” - Plato

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