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#430 - 08/01/01 09:08 AM Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
Anonymous
Unregistered


I was emotionally abused as a boy by my mom (I think physically as well , but not really sure.)

I am married and have had difficulty having sex (orgasm) with my wife. I am interested in her - but feelings of being punished by a guy keep intruding. Intimacy with women scare me. I want it, yet I run away when she shows an interest. Its like i'm damaged goods. .

Does anyone have experience with sexual dysfunction as a result of being a survivor. I would like some company here. I feel really alone. I know I'm bisexual - thats really not the issue. . . its how to reclaim positive sexuality after having it damaged as a kid.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

David
artistic_david@yahoo.com

PS This group has been one of the best things that has ever happened to me. The support of everyone here is moving and I'm appreciative.


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#431 - 08/01/01 11:02 AM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
i wish i could help, but as you know, sexuality is not my expertise.......i guess you have answered my gay question......if you love your wife, i guess you need to trust her enough to have sex with her....i know that is my issue......you already know how screwed up i am sexually.....be proud of yourself for being brave enough to have sex and to be willing to love another person.....if you have the characteristics we have discussed, you have a very special wife.....she must be a great person to put up with your personality....i guess my only advice is to just love her.......michael


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#432 - 08/01/01 02:17 PM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
Just Call me J Offline
Member

Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 204
Loc: Inland Empire, California
David,

As you read in my other post, I said that I'm pretty much asexual. While all my friends talk of getting hard-ons over seeing a beautiful woman, I stand back, and admire her beauty. If I see a REALLY incredible woman, the feeling *I* get is in my gut, almost like heartache, rather than the rush of blood to the groin.

I also have been a crossdresser since a young age (actively since 14), and that is the activity that provokes the most obvious sexual interest for me. For years, I just assumed that I was weird, and that there really was no hope of being "normal."

Before I ever had the courage to crossdress in real life, I had some "experiments" (3 or 4 times, in a few week time period) with another boy in my classes. It amounted to some groping, and attempted mutual masturbation (I didn't get aroused), but it didn't really interest me. And we never talked of the activities again. And we continued through 4 more years of high school sharing classes.

And then I met this really amazing young lady, and, at the tender age of 21, I had my first kiss. And I got a hard-on! It was a beautiful moment, in the streetlight, with this girl I really dug on, and the thought that ran through my head was, "Thank God!! I'm normal after all!"

Things never really worked out with her, though. She went on to marry someone else (a great guy), and I'm afraid to say I've lost touch with her now, though she was a really great friend for 2 years until we lost touch.

Anyway, move on 5 years, to when this friend of a friend shows up at my doorstop to say, "My husband is out of town. I'm bored. Come over." And as an afterthought, "Bring a toothbrush." I tried to convince myself that it would all be innocent (she simply wanted company), even though a large part of me said, "I'm probably going to get laid, at last!" I was a virgin at this point.

Long story short, though I held strong for about 4 hours (after putting her kids to bed), I eventually gave into her seduction, and slept with a married woman. She did all the work, made all the moves. I just let it happen. And when we kissed, I got my most sexual interest. The rest of the sex wasn't that great. I remember going through the motions, and thinking to myself, "I couldn't care less about her."

The next morning, with God's flashlight (the sun) shining straight in my eyes, the full impact of what happened sank in. She wanted me to stick around, and be her "man on the side," but I remained firm, and didn't do anything else with her. And spent the next several months going through a lot of self-loathing over breaking one of my most important personal vows (monogomy is VERY important to me, and by being the "other man" I violated that). I ended up growing from that experience, though I still get moments of getting down on myself about it. I did come away with the opinion that I have no interest in sex, just for sex' sake. I only want to sleep with someone I actually care about.

The woman I was dating in the weeks before my flashback, was someone that my friend set me up with. I didn't feel anything for her at first, but figured I would give it more time. Eventually, I started to warm up to her, and then I had to deal with some of her "games" and crap that seem to be par for the course of dating nowadays. I couldn't tell if she actually liked me or not, because whenever I thought she did, she would indicate she didn't (or worse, say that *I* didn't). So imagine my surprise when she called me up, and began to describe a fantasy, and it amounted to phone sex. I got somewhat aroused, but the whole episode kinda freaked me out. Since I had my flashback about 10 days later, I just broke it off with her.

The night that I had my flashback, I was in serious need of having someone being comforting and nururing (I saw myself as a very little boy), and my best friend, a lesbian, kept her arms around me. By the time we all needed to sleep, she asked if I wanted to be alone, or have company, and I said that I wanted company. So I slept in the same bed as her, and we spooned together, and slept with our arms around each other. I've had a crush on her for a few years now, so I got immediate arousal, which I did my best to ignore.

Later in the week, we talked all night again, and I stayed the night. We talked about our feelings for each other, and how it was a bad idea (she's vulnerable because her girlfriend died 2 months ago, I'm vulnerable, well, duh), to act on it, but we both admitted that we do love each other deeply.

So, we slept in the same bed together, keeping our arms around each other, and I had to make a conscious effort not to get aroused. Since I DO have deep feelings for her, it is a turn-on to be intimate with her. And that is messing with my head a bit. I mentioned that in one of my posts before I left on my vacation.

We talked again, after I got back from my vacation, and I said how it was a bad idea to "sleep together" (in the literal sense), because I'm having trouble keeping my feelings separate. I put the thought into words, (and she agreed) if we DID get together, I felt like it was a chance that we could be "normal." And she has a lot lesbian pride, so it pisses her off that she would actually feel that way ("normal" over being in a straight relationship). Perhaps it is meaningful that it was a discussion of the movie Chasing Amy (about a straight guy falling in love with a lesbian, who in turn realizes that she really is in love with him too) that led to her coming out to me in the first place.

Or not.

Anyway, here's another of my patented mile-long posts.

Now that I've said all that, David, my short answer is: Sexual dysfunction? Yes! I chalked it up to my crossdressing for most of my life. Now I see it more a product of a lack of emotional intimacy.

J
We're all in this together.

_________________________
We're in this together. - Nine Inch Nails

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#433 - 08/03/01 02:27 AM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
fmighell Offline
Member

Registered: 02/19/01
Posts: 276
Loc: Anchorage,Alaska
Where do I start? Sexually Abused, YES
Seaxual Dysfunction, Yes
Bi, Yes
Positive Sexuality, How?
I'm married also. Sleeping in different beds at night. Haven't had sex with her for one year now. It was when I returned out of treatment, July 2000. For me having sex with her and me, reminds me of walwrist doing it.
I fear for her health. I do not want to hurt her. When I do get the erge, I masturbate.
I'm dysfunctional for lots of reasons. We talk and kiss, hold each other many a times.
I think we are still intimate even with out sex, but I could be wrong.
fmighell Anc Ak


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#434 - 08/05/01 11:12 PM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
Just Call me J Offline
Member

Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 204
Loc: Inland Empire, California
I'm now reading "Abused Boys: The Neglected Victims of Sexual Abuse" by Mic Hunter.

I'm only partway through it, but I found that the things in my life that I thought of, weren't about the sexual abuse when I was 3; I don't remember enough about that.

I think about my first sexual experience when I was 25. I think about the woman that decided that if she was going to end her marriage by sleeping with another man, it would be me. I think about how she made all the moves, and I (after hours of protest) finally gave in.

I have tried to take responsibility for my actions (not saying no, not leaving the house, even when I was prepared for it), and going against my own moral code by having sex with a married woman.

But I get so angry when I think about the event. I feel used. I feel worthless, because I couldn't even stick to my OWN code of conduct.

One of the lines from the book is "Becoming angry is the beginning of acceptance and of moving from the view of self as a victim to the view of self as a survivor. You cannot get angry for the abuse and still blame yourself for it."

So I wonder if, even though I was 25 at the time, is this a situation that I should be taking responsibility for, in the first place? Is blaming her for the act a cop-out, so that I can get off guilt-free? Or was I, in fact, a victim here, so that I can claim all the recovery and healing rights thereof? Was this a continuation of my original abuse, sitting like a deer in headlights, while something sexual was done to me?

I really want to get over this event; I thought I had moved past it, but the recent near-relationship brought up a lot of the feelings and fears. I would like to be able to get into a healthy relationship. I still dream of the husband/father thing. Right now, it's hard enough being "parent" to my 2 cats.

I'd like to hear some more opinions on the matter. I used to always think I was an adult... now I wonder just how stunted my emotional growth really is.

J

_________________________
We're in this together. - Nine Inch Nails

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#435 - 08/06/01 09:44 AM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
Anonymous
Unregistered


J-

I don;t wanna come down too hard on you, man, but this is what I think. You were 25 years old. This woman was alot more experienced then you, but still like you said you could of left the house, you could of done something to prevent it. I don;t see you as the victim in that scene.

You said you were abused when you were 3 years old, though. My shrink keeps asking me how old is someone when they do something. Then you're 25 years old and you do something you know is wrong, something that violates your own code like you said, like a kid, except that you were 25 so you were old enought to know better and to know what you were doing. The woman wanted to leave her husband, so you did something that would hurt someone else, also like a kid would do. Now we all do things we regret later, but I think it's wrong to try to blame her. That would be like acting like a little kid, little kids are always trying to blame other people. Like I said, you were old enought to know better. I don;t think that it's gonna help you to blame this woman, though, what she did was wrong, cheating on her husband, but she didn;t force you. You weren't her victim but there might be some connection to your past. I think that trying to blame her is like trying to be the little boy who was abused, that might be the connection. You weren;t her victim, you could of walked away but you didn;t, and trying to blame her just because you don't like what you did is like acting like a kid. Just some thoughts, don't know exactly where I was going but thought I'd pitch in.

[ 08-06-2001: Message edited by: big bear ]


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#436 - 08/06/01 02:46 PM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
Just Call me J Offline
Member

Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 204
Loc: Inland Empire, California
Big Bear,

Thanks. It wasn't the answer I hoped for when I wrote it, but it's the answer that is going to keep me on the road to recovery... I hope.

Cuz I'm really not sure how to go about healing from this. After several months of feeling shitty about it, I had an epiphany of sorts, over a year ago. I had just watched The Iron Giant, and one of the most important lines of that movie is "You are, who YOU choose to be. You choose." And I decided that I could not change the fact that I had consented to sex with this woman, but I could make the choice not to do anything like that again. As a matter of fact, I had made that choice the very next morning, by not sleeping with her a second time, when she wanted it.

And that's pretty much where I am now. Except that I am trying to deal with the anger that has come up in the last few weeks. It feels like it would help if I had a target for this anger, but I don't know who my abuser was. Whenever I think about this, it pisses me off to no end. I am proud of myself for remaining true to myself, AFTER the fall. But then I remember how manipulative she was in trying to "win me back," then "ratting me out" to her husband when I wouldn't give in (resulted in him breaking a few windows, harrassment when I wasn't home, and a lot of fear. I've since moved, without leaving a forwarding address, and had no problems). It just feels like I'll never truly be free of this. I've been "incident free" for at least 10 months, so I hope that it's really over.

I had a good cry 2 weeks back, and that seemed to purge a lot of the pent up emotion, but I feel the anger welling back up again.

I guess I'll write one of those letters that you never send. It's a start.

J

_________________________
We're in this together. - Nine Inch Nails

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#437 - 08/08/01 09:42 AM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
Anonymous
Unregistered


Glad I had something to add.


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#438 - 08/08/01 02:26 PM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
Just Call me J Offline
Member

Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 204
Loc: Inland Empire, California
Thanks again.

I just hate the roller coaster ride of going over the same old crap I thought I was past...

J

_________________________
We're in this together. - Nine Inch Nails

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#439 - 08/08/01 06:21 PM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
getteddie Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 226
Loc: Cub Hill, Md
Hey Just Call Me,
and I will tell you like it is! Poor joke but I have loads of imfo and experience on male sexual abuse and sexual dysfunction. I'm married 22 years and about 5 years ago I started having trouble getting hard...got viagra....helped for a few years...than it just gave me headaches...tried more and more. I got to the point that I couldn't have an orgasm...even with my hand. I was fucked...went nuts and started having flashbacks that I could remember of the sexual abuse when a child. These flashbacks were all single frame ones so I didn't know what they were. After about 3 months of no orgasms at all. I had strong thoughts of having a man hurt me, so I found one on the net that wanted to fist me. I was scared but with all the people on the net saying how much fun this was...I went for it and was surprised that it was easy and I loved it. I didn't know anything about gay life and what these leather freaks were into. The first 2 times he let me control the action but on the 3th he took control and started to really hurt me. I didn't like it..felt like beening raped. This is when I had my first rolling flashback, 10 seconds of being raped as a child. I was on my back and placed a foot against his chest and kicked him off and out of me....hiting the wall about 8' away..slid down to the floor and started crying...said that he thought that we had something going and I was gone...had another longer flashback at a stop light on the way home. He kept calling and E-mailing me untill I told him that I would most likely kill him the next time. I still didn't get hard with him but did have the first orgasms in months. This is where I became a super sex addict. I was out of my mind completly...never deleted any of the cookies or even the history...my wife is a programer...guess what happened !!! Yea, I didn't even feel like I had done anything wrong...I had to see the first of my therapist...I was pissed off at men so got a good looking lady. She freaked when I told her about the flashbacks in detail...she wanted it. Then when I told her about me picking fights with strange men...for fun?...In the nut house I went!!! Three weeks of checking out some real nuts...big time. This was a nice place on the front line of PTSD studies. Had to take 8 - one hour long classes every day...I was the only man there! There was 11 nutty girls and me...we were pretty tight after the first week. They all had problems of sexual dysfunction too. WOW, I learned a lot..one girl did try to kill me but said that she didn't mean it...it was one of her parts...DID !!! Whatever, when you are married you can't go outside the marriage for sex..be it that you are gay, bi, tri...marriage is a contract and wives take it as so...big time with no bullshit!!! My wife said that she would try to please me like the guy did...giving me a 2nd chance. I found that it wasn't the male to male thing but this sex ack...she is better...gentle and I have control this time. Now I'm addicted to this form of sex and can't stop. I do like it, a true pain and plesure thing. But I do want my cock working again...trying to get a pump up dick implant. I've been to 3 dick doctors and finilly found one that may do the operation. This works no matter what you are thinking about....Good Luck!!!!

Eddie


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#440 - 08/09/01 09:43 AM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
fmighell Offline
Member

Registered: 02/19/01
Posts: 276
Loc: Anchorage,Alaska
I used to have this meeting going on in my mind, feelings at the head or end of the table, have president over thoughts and stuff. For me, it was a matter of time,
my split feelings, or ideals, can come to an agreement, in less time then it use to.
fmighell Anc Ak


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#441 - 08/29/01 06:48 PM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
HI DAVID,
FEELINGS OF INADEQUACY AND SHAME HAVE PLAYED HAVOC IN MY SEXUAL LIFE WITH MY WIFE ALSO. SOMETIMES AT SEXUALLY INTIMATE MOMENTS I EXPERIENCE INTENSE SHAME THAT ABRUPTLY DESTROYS AND DEFLATES THE EXTACY. I THEN FEEL HUMILIATED AT MY INABILITY TO "PERFORM". AT OTHER TIMES THERE IS LESS OF A PROBLEM. MY WIFE IS VERY PATIENT AND UNDERSTANDING NOW THOUGH THIS WAS NOT ALWAYS THE CASE. AT TIMES WHAT HELPS IS A MENTRA OF " THIS IS AN ADULT RELATIONSHIP WITH THE PERSON THAT I LOVE AND THESE FEELINGS ARE GOOD (NOT SHAMEFUL)." "THEY ARE PART OF WHO I AM AS A HUMAN BEING." ………. YOU ARE NOT ALONE DAVID


IN RESPONSE TO SOME OF THE OTHER RESPONSES TO YOUR POST DAVID, AS I UNDERSTAND IT WHEN WE ARE ABUSED AS A CHILD OUR ABILITY TO SAY NO IS DESTROYED AND THE ABILITY TO SAY NO HAS TO BE PRACTICED.
IN MY OWN RECOVERY I HAVE KNOWN ADULTS AS OLD AS 26-45 YEARS OLD WHO WERE STILL BEING ABUSED BY FATHERS AND OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS. THEIR ABILITY TO SAY NO WAS STOLEN WHEN THEY WERE YOUNG.
AS A 25 YEAR OLD BEING SEDUCED BY AN OTHER ADULT WITH ULTERIOR MOTIVES I WOULD FEEL USED. ADD TO THAT I AM A SURVIVOR AND I ALREADY SAID NO OR OFFERED SOME RESISTANCE OVER A PERIOD OF HOURS I WOULD EXPECT I WOULD FEEL OVERCOME BY MY SEELINGS OF POWERLESSNESS OVER MY PHYSICAL REACTION TO THIS STILULATING CIRCUMSTANCE. (FLASHBACK OF FEELINGS TIME) IF THERE WERE A WOMAN SAYING NO TO A MAN FOR OVER SEVERAL HOURS IT MIGHT BE EASIER TO SEE THE POWER DYNAMIC GOING ON. SO IF THE SURVIVOR FEELS POWERLESS (FOR MORE THAT ONE POSSIBLE REASON)AND SHE CAN’T CONCIEVE OF THE POSSIBILITY THEN SHE HAS A STRAIGHTJACKET ON HIS FEELINGS… OR IS THE POSSIBILITY THAT SHE BELIEVES A MAN IS RULED BY HIS DICK THUS USING HIS SEX AGAINST HIM. WHERE WAS HER RESPECT FOR HIS INTEGRITY. THE PLEASURE OF SEX IS INTENSE, FAR TOO INTENSE FOR A CHILD TO DEAL WITH SO THE CHILD IS OVERWHELMED WITH FEAR AND CONFUSION, AN ADULT SURVIVOR HAS THE MEMORY STORED WITHIN HIM OR HER. AND CAN FALL AS EASY PREY TO A SEXUAL AGGRESSOR
THERE WAS AN OTHER TIME ON THIS PAGE THAT AN ADULT MALE RECEIVED ONLY ONE RESPONSE WHEN HE RECEIVED A LAP DANCE.(AUG 2000) AND FELT CONFUSED AND OVERWHELMED. THE RESPONSE TO THE POST WAS HE WAS AN ADULT AND SHE WAS AN ADULT, BOTH CONSENTED.. IT DIDN’T ADDRESS THE INTENSITY OF HIS DISTRESSED IN HIS RESPONSE. HE WASN’T ASKED HIS LIFE EXPERIENCE AND WAS DISMISSED. WHAT IF HE WERE A SURVIVOR OF CHILDHOOD ABUSE. THAT ISSUE MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD.

[ August 31, 2001: Message edited by: RJD ]


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#442 - 08/31/01 08:33 AM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
Anonymous
Unregistered


RJD, your response was great. It addressed some of my issues so I wanted to say thanks. I read that you remind your self that your relationship with your wife is an adult relationship . I think we forget that about our marriages or girlfriends, that these are people we don;t have to be ashamed with, just be ourselves and be honest with them and things can get better. Instead we get so caught up in shame and other feelings that we let our most important peopole get away from us, we push tham away instead of letting them help. Anyway your post was great, and thanx.


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#443 - 09/03/01 11:16 AM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
Anonymous
Unregistered


RJD, I read your post again and this time what caught my attention was what you said about the ability to say no. We didn;t get to say no when we were being abused, then alot of us go on and feel like we can;t say no to anything, can;t control our lives and that makes us victimes forever. I slept around alot while I thought i was dealing with my abuse. It made me feel good for a little while but I acted like I couldn;t control anything in my life and jsut kept destroying my life like I was an adult victim. At some point we gotta be able to say no to the bad things and take our life back. We can;t say we;re survivors or we;re over the abuse til we can say no to the unhealthy things in our lives that our abuse made us do and til we can make healthy decisions and take our lives back.

[ September 03, 2001: Message edited by: big bear ]


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#444 - 09/03/01 05:37 PM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
AMEN BIG BEAR--------- RJD


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#445 - 09/03/01 05:39 PM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
AMEN BIG BEAR--------- RJD


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#446 - 09/04/01 05:37 AM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
Anonymous
Unregistered


I finally saw that I was treating these othe women like my abuse treated me. Just sex, nothing else. I thought my abuser loved me as a kid but I know better now. I was sleeping around with different women and some of them really liked me but I had no intention of marrying them or nothing, I was using them to feel better for a few minutes. When i realized that I was treating them like my abuser treated me. That could of been when I hit bottom and knew I wanted to have nothing in common with him so I started to clean up my act and ask myself what;s important.

I knew all along that it was wrong, I was hurting everyone I cared about but I acted like I was helpless and couldn;t do anything about it. I pretended I couldn;t say no, I pretended I couldn;t control anything. Later one I saw what mess I made and it all my own fault, no one else's.


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#447 - 09/04/01 10:25 AM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
thunderbolt Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 119
Loc: mi
my fault i keep throughing that one up , cant keep it down, sounds like that aa stuff it was all my fault for doing the things i did the useing, people, objects, amimals and instruments, boy that was easy, all i have to do is say i wanted him to fuck me right out of my skull and thats ok its my fault, fuck you, you sound like all the people who know about me, the same reaction, get over it, it was a long time ago, forget it, it was your dission to escape, that was your drug of chose, after being abused i dont remmember thinging fucking everything in site as being wrong,i thinked it normal, and that i should blame myself for what happened seems to undermind this recovery shit.....


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#448 - 09/04/01 10:34 AM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
thunderbolt Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 119
Loc: mi
ya count 10 spaces write trigger, this stuff and life is a trigger i cant look one way someone goes the other yes im fucked twisted angered confused disgusted tired frustrated just about ready to get off the pity wagon i want to pick my owen number call bingo and get the fuck outa here........


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#449 - 09/04/01 01:40 PM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
Just Call me J Offline
Member

Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 204
Loc: Inland Empire, California
Thunderbolt,

Don't sweat it. That's why we're here, man.

This is a delicate issue (as I wrote about above). There are a LOT of mixed feelings here. But what it ultimately comes down to, for me, is taking responsibility for the here and now.

Mistakes made in the past cannot be changed. But if we can look at WHY we made them, we can avoid a similar fate in the present and future. RJD is absolutely right. My ability to say "no" was taken from me. I felt used by her.

But the decision I made the very next day, is the same that I make now (but forgot in between): I will not allow myself to give up my values, even for sex. Even though I may have been a victim in that circumstance, NOW I have the ability to make an adult choice.

Taking responsibility for MY actions and choices, gives me the power over MY destiny. I feel really sorry for this woman, that she felt a need to engineer the end of her marriage. She wanted to use me as a patsy; she succeeded to a certain degree, but not to the extent that she planned. Once all that became clear, I was able to say "no" when she turned to me, after her husband turned away from her. She was using me, but I would not allow myself to be used anymore.

The consequence of this was that she told her husband where I lived (to get back at me, I guess), So there was a year or so of terror, as I had rocks thrown through my windows, and my tires slashed. Since I've moved (left no forwarding address), there is no more terror. She tried once more to contact me again last year via anonymous email, but I just deleted it.

I'm not sure exactly how it worked, but after Big Bear's comments to me above, I managed to get over her. I don't feel the animosity I used to. Sure, there's some leftover anxiety when I remember the events, but I don't hate her anymore.

I might even be able to say that I forgive her. And part of me has felt that I didn't deserve to be forgiven by God, until I could forgive her (the Lord's Prayer: forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us). So now I feel more whole.

And that leaves me freer to live my life.

Jeremy
We're in this together.

_________________________
We're in this together. - Nine Inch Nails

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#450 - 09/04/01 07:14 PM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
I LEARNED TO ATTACH SEXUAL PLEASURE TO INTENSE SHAME WHILE GROWING UP. WHAT I NEEDED WAS TO BE LOVED, NOT ABUSED AND TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF. LATER IN LIFE I ACTED OUT SEXUALLY(AS I WAS TAUGHT) WITH MEN, FOR SEVERAL YEARS, AS PART OF A DOUBLE LIFE. WHAT I GOT OUT OF BEHAVING THAT WAY WAS SELF- CONTEMPT. THIS PUSHED ME TO ACT OUT MORE THUS FURTHER ENDANGERING THE WELL-BEING OF MYSELFAND THE WELL-BEING OF MY FAMILY(WIFE AND KIDS).
I LIVED AND BREATHED THIS SELF-CONTEMPT. IT WAS WITH ME WHEN I WOKE AND WHEN I WENT TO BED. THE LAST I HAD A FAMILY AS A CHILD WAS WHEN THE SEXUAL ABUSE HAPPENED. MY BROTHER WAS NO LONGER A BROTHER IN THE SENSE IT WAS SUPOSSED TO BE. MY MOTHER WAS A SEXUAL AGGRESSOR NOT MY PROTECTOR. I BELIEVE SOME OF MY ACTING OUT WAS ABOUT TRYING TO BE BACK WITH MY MOTHER AND BROTHER BEFORE THINGS BEGAN TO HAPPEN, AS IF I WAS GOING TO GET IT RIGHT THIS TIME( LIKE IT WAS MY FAULT). I STILL NEEDED A MOTHER AND A BIG BROTHER.

I BELIEVE I READ THIS QUOTE IN A BOOK ,BY JOHN BRADSHAW TITLED ,"HEALING THE SHAME THAT BINDS YOU", THAT IT IS LIKE "GOING TO A HARDWARE STORE FOR A GALLON OF MILK. NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU GO BACK TO THE HARDWARE STORE YOU AREN’T GOING TO FIND A GALLON OF MILK." I BELIEVE ONE DEFINITION OF INSANITY IS DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND BELIEVE THAT THIS TIME WILL SOMEHOW BE DIFFERENT. THAT SHOE HAS CERTAINLY FIT ME.
TO DIRTY ANOTHER WILLING PARTNER……. HERE WAS MY POISONOUS ANGER.
ONE NIGHT WHEN I WAS COMPULSIVELY GOING OUT CRUISING . I BEGAN TO THINK ABOUT THE NOTION OF THE CHILD WITHIN. WITH SOME CYNICISM I SAID TO THE CHILD WITHIN ME, " BOBBY WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO ?". HERE SOMETHING VERY UNEXPECTED HAPPENED. I WAS SUDDENLY FILLED WITH FEAR AND A TEARFULVOICE FROM DEEP WITHIN ME SAID ALOUD," I WANT TO GO HOME, I DON’T WANT TO DO THIS ANY MORE THEN SCREAMING I SAID AGAIN I DON’T WANT TO DO THIS ANYMORE". I HAD TO PULL OFF THE ROAD AND CONTINUED TO CRY FOR ABOUT A HALF AN HOUR. I TURNED AROUND AND WENT HOME. THAT NIGHT WAS THE BEGINNING OF CHANGE FOR ME AND MY BEHAVIOR.
I HAVE DONE VOLUNTEER WORK WITH MEN WHO ARE ABUSIVE IN THEIR RELATIONSHIPS FOR 18 YEARS. CALLING THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS CONTINUED TO CAUSE ME TO TAKE A LOOK AT HOW I TREAT MYSELF WITH DISRESPECT.
------NUFF FOR NOW I’M GETTING EXHAUSTED
-------------------------------- BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELVES YOU DESERVE IT
--------------------------------------------------------------------- RJD


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#451 - 09/04/01 11:48 PM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
Anonymous
Unregistered


RJD,

Wow! Listening to and protecting that little boy within is such a powerful way of nrturing yourself. What a gift to reach a turning point in your recovery. I know it isn't easy, but reading between the lines that you've written, I see HOPE in big letters. This is inspiring to me, personally. Thanks, Bobby.

Dynamite Don


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#452 - 09/06/01 04:08 AM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
Just Call me J Offline
Member

Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 204
Loc: Inland Empire, California
I'm really exhausted (my best friend/pillar of support just returned from vacation, so we talked for a few hours tonight), so I won't go into everything on my mind, but I'll hit some hightlights.

As murky as this whole situation was, your post did a lot to balance out all the conflicting emotions I've had. Thanks. You make a lot of sense about passivity when it comes to sex (not that the issue has come up much in my life).

That said, Big Bear's post really did force me to confront my own responsibility. And that was an important roadblock to healing from this. I am really amazed that I don't still hang onto the anger at her, because it has been present for so long.

When I say taking responsibility, by the way, I do not mean "to take the BLAME," just the responsibility for my actions, and the consequences from them. Broken windows and slashed tires were not the consequences of my actions (this thought just occurred to me, so I'll have to continue reminding myself that this insight is correct). A husband who was hurt emotionally by his wife's betrayal (and who is rightly responsible for the vandalism) was the consequence. If she hadn't found me, she would have found someone else, of this I'm sure. But she found me, and I had a part in what happened. I really do feel sorry for the husband (he's the one that was married to her, after all).

Trusting my own instincts was another important lesson from all this, because my gut feelings were giving me all kinds of red flags, telling me to leave the situation. I rationalized them all away, because I thought, "that's ridiculous; she can't really want to do that." My trust issues tend to run the opposite direction of most people here; I trust too willingly. So I will take someone at their word, even if their actions contradict it. I've learned a lot through my work to build up my BS-detector.

The followup talk with Angela, in which she came to me for support after her husband "found out" was very surreal. I was able to see her for who she was; I could see all the lies, and the manipulation that she attempted. And because I could see it, and know that I was right, it was very easy for me to say "no" to her after that. I felt very vindicated by that.

I think that those "low-level indicators" were what chased me off from the girl I most recently dated. She started doing stuff that struck me as very manipulative (playing on/off with her interest in me). I didn't like being tossed like a yoyo, so I got slower and slower in responding to her emails and phone calls. Since this coincided with the revelation of my abuse, I just bowed out, claiming I needed to get my own shit together, before I would be ready for any kind of relationship (half-truth/half lie; I didn't say that I thought she was playing me, and I wasn't about to tell her the whole story of why I had been emotionally distant).

Incidentally, as I scan through my post here, and edit things out, I find that I am getting angrier with Angela again. I'm not completely sure that it's personal anger (I hope not; I was beginning to like being over this whole mess). I believe that this stems from all this talk of manipulation. Manipulators have always been one of my hot-button issues, that has always raised my hackles. I found this all the way back to movies I saw in jr high, with manipulative characters, and the kids I have had the toughest time working with are the ones who always try to get around what I tell them.

Egads, for someone who claimed to be exhausted, I sure wrote alot anyway (I had intended a 1/4 mile post, not a 1/2 mile one). I guess I just need to raise the bar for ya, Urso! :p Heh heh heh!

Good night all!

Jeremy
We're in this together.

_________________________
We're in this together. - Nine Inch Nails

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#453 - 09/15/01 03:44 PM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by artistic_david:
Hey David.
I experience sexual dysfunction too. Its like, everythings set and I feel like having sex and then when its time to actually become erect it doesn't happen. The feeling of desire is there though. Its funny, because there are all these instances where i could have had sex and I think about it a lot, and each time I'll go through the effort of playing the game until I end up in bed with a woman and then I don't get erect.



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#454 - 06/09/02 02:49 AM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
Redswami Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/10/02
Posts: 4
Loc: Miami Beach
Well, first I want to say how grateful I am for this site and everyone's honesty in participating. It's somewhat difficult for me to feel 100% connected over the internet, but nonetheless, reading your words does have connection with me.

I rspond to this question because at times it seems the biggest issue for me. I am young, 22 years old, and in my youth, I struggle so much with my own pressure to want to be "normal". I was sexually abused by an older uncle and cousin, one 2 years older the othre 5 years older, from teh time I was 7 until 15. My sister was also abused, thoguh for a shorter time. This year is the first time I've had flashbacks. I always assumed I woudl have no use for flashing back because I remembered that I was abused. But, this year was also the first time I realized that I only began my memories from the age of 12 or so, a time well into the abuse set-up. By this point I was pretty much having to go to my perpetrators houses and seek the abusive encounter. At times, it would not begin unless I asked for it. I have believed that I wanted the abuse, that it was my fault.

When I was young I was fondled in a public restroom, and learning about the environment, began to seek out sexual encounters. Between the actual abuse, pornography, and seeking out these encounters I was engulfed in unhealthy sexuality, and really confused and angry. The summer before my sophmore year of college I "came out" that I was gay, and lived as openly gay for a year. I had dated girls throughout high school and even moved to college with one I'd had for a long time. All the while I'd also been compulsiveley acting out in secret. At first, I tried "dating" but found that I had no interest in getting personal with men, ending all of the "relationships" within a couple weeks. Well maybe 3 weeks, with one entire week of avoidance first. Then I went right to one-night stands. This past summer I fell in love with a friend of mine at school. she has thrown the biggest wrench in my gears. I realize now that my flashbacks this year were necessary because as I began to question the beliefs I had formed about myself and my sexuality and my capacity to look for and find love, I was brought to remembering the abuse as I never had. I bgan having extremely intense flashbacks that had less to do with actual images (though sometimes there were) and more to do with feeling afraid for my life, unable to stop a monster force, and would make my body shake, tense, keel over, and sometimes fall to the ground. They came first when all fo my friends went home for thanksgiving break and I was alone. I was rememebring the abuse in a way I never had before. As I truly felt in the situation... as I truly felt in the times I was 14telling grown men that I was in fact 18 so that they would molest me... as I truly felt each time I would leave a person's house I'd just slept with and would tell myselfover and over how I never wanted to do it again.

For the first 8 months of our relationship I was visciously struggling within myself. My questioning and fear and anxiety nearly drove her away fom me for good a few times. We are still together and while I have found a bit more ease in teh relationship I still struggle. I face the thoguhts that I was in fact taught about sexuality well before I was ready. A male-to-male sexually was forced onto me. I used all of the normal incongruent assumptions- beliving that since I became aroused and felt pleasure I enjoyed and wanted the abuse. I believed that if it were happening to me than my sister would be safe. I walk around with a disturbing compulsive and obsessive pattern of seeing men and envisioning them with large penis', seeing them as more powerful and manly than me. I see straight men comfortable in their bodies and I am jealous and envious. I have sex with my girlfriend and am critical of my performance... confused my the new felings that come up... so so worried that I'm not doing something right or not feeling the right things that a "real straight-guy" would feel... at times depressed by my sense that without the feelings of danger and disassociation fo feelings, intimate loving sex is less than. It's ben months now since I've acted out wiht anyone. I am just beginning to look at an addictive use of online pornography to act out. I am grateful that it does not endanger my partner's or my health, but it is certainly becoming a problem for the maintanance of my life. I get so afraid of not being "normal" I rememebr being in Jr. high and thinking that I couldn't be with girls because normal guys didn't know the things I knew and hadn't done anything like I had with guys... and that if a girl found out she wouldn't want me anyways. I've since had times of really key "truth" within myelf about the situation. There is much les doubt in me as to the validity of this expereince, but I still am plagued by these intrusive thoughts and images. This overwhelming thought that every guy out there is more powerful than me because he is bigger and stronger. My girlfriend has said once that she is sometimes intimadated beign with me because she things I am so attractive, what do I do with that if I feel so awful about myself inside and can't credit myself healthily for my outside. the worst thing is having sex with her and running a derogatory monologue in my head. Trying so hard to be present and be there with her...

I feel so cheated. I know in my head that the abuse was not my fault. I know in a degree of me heart. I still know that much of me still clings to those old beliefs and limitations on myself. As I started looing at this issue I rememebr days when I woudl be so sad and feel so helpless adn lost- I felt as if I was a barn door or something with paint chipping off... only underneath the paint was nothing, not even the original material painted on. I had formed my life around things forced on me! Who and what was underneath?!

My sexuality is at least as safe as it has ever been, and has brought me moments of better pleasure than I've ever known and been able to sit with after. The immediacy of sex with an anonymous man is a mirage like temptation in my mind. I never want to act on it, but it calls out to at least try and pull me away from being present with my girlfriend. It pisses me off. I'm young, I want to be able to have a meaningful and fun sexual time with her. I feel let down for myself and at times like such a failure for her.

The biggest thing I've gained awareness of in teh pst month or so, is seeing this healing as a process. I'm impatient and oftern too critical of my progress. Having the faith to accept that both the mountains and valleys of this work are necessary and watched over is tough, but what little I know of it has helped tremendously. I am scared though. At times, it feels so big.

Thanks,
redswami


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#455 - 06/10/02 12:30 AM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
Ken Followell Offline
President
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 12/30/01
Posts: 990
Loc: Bradenton, FL
Redswami,

Your words are so powerful. I am sorry for all the pain and confusion you have endured. I wish you well in your healing as you learn to love this woman in your life. Our abuse screws with our minds in such a profound level that we question everything and alll we do.

Thank you for sharing this here.

Ken

_________________________
Ken Followell

Everything works out right in the end. If things are not working right, it isn't the end yet. Don't let it bother you, relax and keep on goin
- Michael C. Muhammad

"I get up. I walk. I fall down. Meanwhile, I keep dancing."
� Rabbi Hillel

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#456 - 06/10/02 07:29 PM Re: Reclaiming Positive Sexuality.
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Redswami
I read your post days ago, along with all the ones before. And it's been on my mind a lot.
I'm nearly 49, over twice your age, but we've followed a similar path from abuse through acting out. Wondering about our sexuality and then finding it doesn't work properly when we try.
It's a bitter disapointment to get "through" recovery, stop acting out and then discover that masturbation is the only way for me to have any sex. A big part of my problem could well be the effect of boarding school and being seperated from my family, obviously being abused while there made it worse, but that kind of deprivation makes someone resist affection for the rest of their lives, abuse does as well.
Maybe being abused by family members has the same effect, rejection of affection later in life.
And I think that sexual relationships NEED displayed affection. I love my wife dearly, but I find it so hard to hold her hand as we walk or give her a hug. Kissing and being intimate is harder than hell, when we do have sex ( make love ? ) I choose a position where my body has the least contact with hers. It kills me, then I start to go limp, so I kick off a fantasy about acting out with other men. I feel even worse about that and it ends in tears.
She understands, she know just how much I love her. But for me knowing "why" hasn't helped me much with this problem yet, maybe it will. I want to get this important bit of our life back.
I hope you do as well, it's so good to see guys starting recovery at your age.
At my age I'm having my mid life crisis as well !!!
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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