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#427913 - 03/13/13 11:28 AM Question for the guys......
sugarbaby Offline


Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 329
If you kept your abuse a secret. What would have helped you to pursue treatment/seeking help at different developmental points?

What would have helped:

Prior to age 10?

from 10 - 15?

from 15 - 20?

from 20 - 30?

from 30 - 40?

etc....

Think about it. What would have/could have/might have pulled you out of the soul crushing weight of silence? Where could the process have started?

I'm curious because for me, being female, I have options. I have a local abuse place, OB/GYNs ask about it as standard practice, there are hotline posters on restroom walls.

I don't see this type of support for the guys....for the teen boys who are struggling.....or for the little guys.... and to be quite honest it pisses me off.

The best connection for males and help that I can think of is doctors. My son saw his Dr a little while back and they talked to him about sex in general(he is 16). BUT not abuse. Why? Probably because they don't know that they are (IMHO) probably the best possible link for male victims and help. OB/GYNs obviously know this so I looked at the Amer. Med. Assoc. web site for a while but I didn't find much about specific policy.

Since I am a Nursing student (career change) I have Physician professors. I'd like to bring it up to them and ask about policy but I need to know the consensus about what would be helpful. Maybe I am totally off base with the Dr link.

Tell me what you think and ask other guys on here to also tell me.

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#427917 - 03/13/13 11:56 AM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1309
Loc: kansas
...


Edited by Obi (05/03/13 06:09 PM)
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#427923 - 03/13/13 01:11 PM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
Jacob S Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 594
Originally Posted By: sugarbaby
If you kept your abuse a secret. What would have helped you to pursue treatment/seeking help at different developmental points?



I've been thinking a lot about that. For me, it would have been nothing short of different parents. They were not the CSA perps, but fostered such an atmosphere of worthlessness in me that no amount of talking by a professional was ever going to overcome that.

Its a shift in how we raise children. Its instilling an attitude of value in their own body, value in their voice. If they believe they are important, it will be harder for a perp to keep them quiet.
_________________________
Like a spent gladiator
crawling in the colosseum dust
who can count on his remaining limbs
all the people he can trust.
Like the one who stands behind him
cheering him on
Estatic when he stands defiant,
wild with abandon when he's gone

just stay alive.
do whatever you need to.
you are worth it.

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#427924 - 03/13/13 01:22 PM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
Rosemary Offline


Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 31
Loc: Johannesburg, South Africa
I agree with Obi, children must feel free to tell their parents anything, and as parents you need to take the bad and the good. The most important thing is to believe them, give them all the support they need and consider their feelings. To achieve this open relationship with your children you need to start from day 1.

Unfortunately, this is not possible in the case of incest because sadly the perp could be one of the parents.
_________________________
Rosemary

Partner Support
South African Male Survivors Of Sexual Abuse
Web page www.samsosa.org

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#427925 - 03/13/13 01:26 PM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
L84 Offline


Registered: 11/17/12
Posts: 22
Loc: USA
Great Question Sugarbaby!
Also, Thank you for being a supporter of your husband, your son and other guys like at MS :0)

I think the question has two parts.

(1) Those that haven't been abused. I think the guys above hit on that.

(2) The ones that have suffered abuse. I will give a few thoughts on that one:

The biggest part of the answer is "when they are ready".
If you suspect someone has been abused you can support them and suggest things, but very gently.

It seems for many like in the books "Nice to Meet Me" and the stories on MS and my own story. Until your conscious mind is ready to deal with what happened, it will stay buried. It seems some remember and shove it down. I had absolutely no memory of what happened to me until a ton of stress hit in midlife that things started to leak out. I am still amazed that your mind can block that stuff out until you're ready to deal with it. Looking back I can see a few impacts to my life, but not until just recently did the eruption take place, the memories come back and I had to say, "I am going to do whatever it takes to get better!".

L

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#427929 - 03/13/13 01:35 PM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
Suwanee Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 703
Loc: Southeast USA
First of all, thank you for trying to understand and do something about this problem.

It's complicated and I tend to agree with Obi. There are eons of cultural expectations that both genders are given at birth. One of the expectations communicated to boys is that we should tough it out without complaint. As you might expect, this leads to a culture of silence that is ripe for exploitation by those with unsavory motives.

Beyond this, there is the issue of guilt that is interwoven in male CSA. Boys are told that sexual abuse is something that you just don't let happen---unless "you like that sort of thing." It's related to blaming female victims for being raped because she wore a short, provocative skirt---"she asked for it after all---with that skirt and all..." The male counterpart is "he let it happen."

That's nonsense. I didn't ask for it, I thought I was tough, but I was just a kid. When it happened to me at 13, I was embarrassed, ashamed and angry. That combination doesn't lend itself to disclosure to parents or doctors. I had(still do) have great rapport with my parents, but I still didn't want to tell. I didn't want to be seen as less than what I was before it happened. It isn't logical, but neither is CSA.

Like Obi said, this attitude has to change---even if it takes two generations. My experience is shaped by what happened to me---I was 13 and well into puberty. The perp was non-family. Victims of familial abuse, serial abuse---or young victims will have another set of issues.

Will
_________________________
Cruel Summer
My Journal

-Signs and traces left in stone
Ruins of a past unknown-

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#427939 - 03/13/13 03:12 PM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
I did not piece together the pictures in my head as representing sexual abuse until I was 12, so certainly nothing before then.

Maybe if there had been any serious sort of sexuality component to health class in my school (as opposed to just STDs, menstruation, and eating disorders.... really), or if I'd just opened up to anybody about my agonized struggles with what I now know to have been bisexuality / SSA starting at around the same time, maybe it could have led to some therapy and probing questions.

Maybe when, well into my 20s, I would faint during medical exams if the doc touched my balls, maybe if there had been some questions then.


Just about absolutely, I would have told sometime after 12 except that a particularly infamous pederast - a teenager - started using my teenaged sister as his "beard," to deflect suspicion. He got very close to my family, was over for dinner frequently. He never hurt me but when he was finally exposed it put my sister through hell and my parents were along for the ride. Seeing that destruction, and how upset they were, I never wanted to bring up the subject again. If not for him, I do believe I would have told, and gotten treatment sometime in my teens. It's almost like I'm his last victim.


Matt
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#427959 - 03/13/13 08:38 PM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
pittsburgh Offline


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 89
Loc: west Chester, Pa
What a great question. It seems that our society accepts the fact the women can be raped but not men. After I was beaten an raped I tried to approch a uncle and was told to "man up what did I do to cause it" Not once in my sixty yeard did anyone in the "health field as if "I was safe, if I was ever touched. Nothing, not in health classes, nothing, I did learn how to brush my teeth, wow, also I did not learn I had a prostate till sixty when it started to have big issues, the only thing I can take from this is that men just do not count. There are many "Women's health centers" I have not seen one for men. I guess men are made to bring home the pay check and go stand in the corner till it's time to go to work the next day.
_________________________
it is and has been quite a trip thru life, as last I feel that I am in a better place, it takes work and in my case a wife the was and is forgiveing and helpful. At last a relationship has gone right, messed up three.

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#427963 - 03/13/13 08:57 PM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
EagerLearner Offline


Registered: 01/04/13
Posts: 16
Loc: Midwest
I'm not a guy, but as someone who is going into the medical field as well I found some of the things you said about doctors being the best connection for help interesting.

I think it's definitely true that women who were abused have more resources than their male counterparts. It's unfortunate to be sure. I'm not aware that there would be any particular policy about asking patients about things related to abuse. Many physicians do screen for depression, but practices vary somewhat from physician to physician. Definitely Ob/Gyn physicians tend to be more tuned in to issues of abuse. They typically screen for domestic violence which tends to be perceived as something more of a "women's health" issue even though it is certainly not only women who can be victims of domestic violence and abuse.

I'm a medical student and I had my Ob/Gyn rotation a couple months ago. While on that rotation I spent some time in the clinic seeing women for their annual well woman exams. I got in the habit of asking each patient if she felt safe at home. One woman, when I asked her if she felt safe, looked surprised. She asked me why I was asking. I told her we asked everyone that. She then told me that her husband had in the past threatened to kill her. She went on to tell me that he had been a victim of CSA and a lot of it was coming out now. She said he had never physically harmed her and that she did feel safe. They had been working through it.

I suppose it is interesting that we put so much more emphasis about asking women these questions than men, but a part of me also wonders how many men would feel comfortable talking about it with their physician. As others have said, I think there is this cultural impression that men have to be tough and that they shouldn't show vulnerability. Though I don't suppose it would hurt to ask. Perhaps the best way to get responses would be to have some questions included on an intake questionnaire and then if any of the questions were answered positively the physician could bring it up.

Perhaps more than anything I think this is an issue that pediatricians should be very aware of. In fact, pediatricians are strongly encouraged to talk to patients both with their parents and separate from their parents, especially teenaged patients. Children may not realize what is happening at the time, but pediatricians can ask questions in ways that make sense to kids but also give a picture of what is going on. This seems to me to be one of the best ways of catching it early.

I really think public awareness is important and we should never ever blame the victim. It kills me that my survivor sometimes seems to think that he is somehow less of a man because of what happened to him. Truth be told, I think he is an incredibly strong man in every sense of the word and I try to remind him of that regularly. I hope all of the men on this site realize how strong they are too.

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#427974 - 03/13/13 10:35 PM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
Thanks for the question Sugarbaby.

Although my abuse was in a different era, one thing that would have helped immensely would have been the school authorities who fired my perp for "sexual issues". Had someone - in fact, like a woman - followed up with me and his other possible victims it would have made a huge difference. I was 15-16.

The question, "Do you feel safe at home?" would have been a wonderful inquiry. I was in the frame of mind at that time to definitively answer, "NO." Intervention, however, was not available in that era. Even as a pre-teen in that environment - back to age 7 - I would have answered in the negative. I'd started to cry myself to sleep every night at that age.

Bitchmother was an obvious drunk, verbally and emotionally abusive. It would have been clear to any caseworker. And I desperately wanted to be with Dad instead, a healthier home environment, and being able to go to the boys school with my other buddies who lived on Dad's street.

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#427978 - 03/13/13 11:01 PM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
ThisMan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/13
Posts: 767
Loc: upper south
Sugarbaby,

The medical profession is an excellent resource. But most of us, children included, only have appointments maybe once a year.

I might have a readily available resource in the form of the schools. Beginning in the building the child attends, and the teachers and aids the child loves and treasures. TRAIN these people in the look fors and the necessary reactions when they do discover abuse has happened.

Help them understand that they may be the one safe place for disclosure. TRAIN them in what to do and say that will foster confidence for kids in sharing. The schools ARE the safe place for the majority of children of abuse and the schools are open every day...not by appointment only. This would help children from pre-school thru senior high. But it will require training for all.

After the age of 18, I really don't know. I didn't disclose the CSA until my early 30s. And I've never spoken of the ASA in the real world, other than therapy. Just too much shame and embarrassment associated with sexual assault for males.
_________________________
For now we see through a glass, darkly.



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#427984 - 03/13/13 11:36 PM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
Wife - Survivor Offline


Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 38
Loc: PA
SAD BUT TRUE: Both hubby & I are in CSA Recovery sooo I have asked 2 MD's, 1 PhD (not ours) several Teachers & several Social Workers if they have reached out to kids that may be suspected as abused. All said about the same thing "I fear doing that because I wouldn't know what to do if they say Yes and then they have a melt-down. We don't have a policy on THAT, besides I could lose my job". This just reinforces the NEED to start educating the educators, starting now. Yrs ago I had to sign-up for my kids to have a 1 day sexuality class; it was a joke. The FIRST education job is with the parants & we grandparents need to discuss this with our own kids who are now parents, I have. Remember, most of us were seen as vulnerable (my parents had just seperated) so all kids, M&F, need to KNOW someone is there for them, at all time. Most families have a fire escape plan - they also need an open honesty plan ! Only we can change the future......
_________________________
Everyone DESERVES Recovery, IF they WANT it.
Anything worth it, takes mucho Time & Willingness.

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#427988 - 03/14/13 02:04 AM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
Rosemary Offline


Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 31
Loc: Johannesburg, South Africa
Our daughter is an amazing teacher who works with special needs children now, and is currently doing her honours degree in deaf education. She did teach in a government school in a previously disadvantaged community before. In the short time that she has been a teacher, she has had numerous occasions where she felt children were in some sort of danger at home. I think her father's history has made her more observant. She has made it her personal goal to do whatever she can to assist children who are bullied.

Most urban schools here have a school counselor and any cases of this sort are handed over to this person, However, rural schools are at a point where simple things like desks, electricity, toilets, running water, over crowded classrooms are the challenges that they face. One wonders if they have the time or inclination to worry about possible abuse cases. Sadly, teachers also make up a great proportion of the sexual abuser's here, many teens are having babies fathered by teachers.

It makes us so proud that she in her own small way is making a difference.
_________________________
Rosemary

Partner Support
South African Male Survivors Of Sexual Abuse
Web page www.samsosa.org

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#427992 - 03/14/13 03:11 AM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
crazy gecko Offline


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 309
Good question, sugarbaby, and thank you for trying to do something constructive...

I started writing a reply, but I decided that it came across as far too angry, so I decided to not post it. I will try to write a more appropriate reply.

The story is basically that when I was little I didn't have the vocabulary to express what was happening. I just knew it hurt and I wanted it to stop. By the time I understood what he was doing, I also understood that it was my fault or that at the very least I should have stopped it. Later, when I decided to tell after all, I couldn't find anyone who was both willing to listen and had the power to help me. The only person who tried to help me was my friend's mother but there wasn't much she could do besides repeat my story to the same people who refused to listen to me.

I think was is needed, is education.

Education for little kids about what sexual abuse is, that it is wrong, that despite what the perp said, it isn't their fault, and what to do about it. It would have meant the world to me if someone explained my body's physical reaction to the abuse to me.

Education for teachers, doctors, even cops about sexual abuse, and particularly the fact that boys are abused too and need to be believed and treated with compassion.

Education for parents, teaching them how to recognise the signs and what to do about them.

Education to society in general - a bit like the campaigns that proclaim that a woman who wears a short skirt isn't asking to be raped. Society needs to understand that little boys aren't men who can defend themselves, and that even strong grown men can be overpowered, even by much smaller and weaker assailants.
_________________________
I guess what I'm trying to say
Is whose life is it anyway because livin'
Living is the best revenge
You can play
-- Def Leppard

My Story, Part 2

My blog

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#428000 - 03/14/13 04:48 AM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
Rosemary Offline


Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 31
Loc: Johannesburg, South Africa
CG,

You are spot on, education is the key. I am sorry that the system was not there for you in your hour(s) of need. When my husband and I talk to people about what he is trying to do - make people aware of the abuse young boys suffer at the hands of adults, they are honestly shocked. They know it happens but are under the impression that it is just a few isolated cases. How wrong they are.
_________________________
Rosemary

Partner Support
South African Male Survivors Of Sexual Abuse
Web page www.samsosa.org

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#428016 - 03/14/13 09:53 AM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3363
Loc: somewhere in Africa
[“If you kept your abuse a secret. What would have helped you to pursue treatment/seeking help at different developmental points?”]

I kept it a secret until I had a melt-down in my mid-30s – depressed, suicidal, non-functioning.

[“What would have helped:”]

Prior to age 10? NOTHING – I lived with my 1st abuser – step-dad – there was no escape, and mom was in total denial – willfully blind to everything. There was no help at school at that time. There were NO preventive or educational efforts beyond the “don’t take candy from strangers or get in their cars.”

from 10 - 15? NOTHING – nothing had changed at home – and still no help at school - and that was another scene of abuse – constant sexual bullying from jocks who were the golden boys of the sports coaches. it was too shameful and humiliating to tell anyone – and who was there to tell? It was obviously my fault - I deserved it - and there was no alternative. There were no safe places or people to go to. Even if there had been – I’d have been too afraid to chance it because it would have made things worse at home with the parents and at school with my peers.

from 15 - 20? MAYBE I could have reached out at that time – if I had known: that I wasn’t the only one – that it wasn’t my fault – and that there was hope to either stop it and keep me protected where I was – or get me out of there to a better situation.

from 20 - 30? SLIM CHANCE of any help – I’d repressed, denied and forgotten it all by then. I was OK and nothing was affecting me – get on with life and don’t go there.

from 30 - 40? THAT’S WHEN the TRIGGERS started and blew the dam wide open. i was rendered nearly catatonic by the memories. That’s when I first got help – i was led, nearly deaf, dumb and blind, to a therapist – to deal with the overwhelming deluge of garbage that I was drowning in. at that point I could no longer keep it a secret. It was finally safe to tell – whether there was hope or not.

Lee


Edited by traveler (03/14/13 10:30 AM)
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#428018 - 03/14/13 10:24 AM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6400
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
1-10

I know I could not have told anyone else it would have gone even worse for me. I could sustain what I was experiencing.

10-18

Here too, I was a hated figure of mayhem in my town. People leveraged that against me for their desire to test their own plumbing. I returned to the lead-perp from age 10-14 more than once per-week. Back then there was virtually zero understanding of that. Even I thought of that as FULLY my fault, and there would be no explaination nor excuse for it. It would have required suicide without question.

BUT

I often wished I could have been rescued from the home ultra-violence. His beatings were nothing short of a psychotic episode. I regularly thought I was going to die. For THAT reason, I wished for many miracles and certain (as in guaranteed) escape options that would have pulled me from that nightmare without question, without explaination, without haveing to deal with retarded cops and the very perp of violence.

If there would have been a big red button in town square, the schools, the mall...anywhere...I would have pushed it if it meant an emergency response would wave taken me away and fully insulated me without question (WITHOUT QUESTION). Once you push this button, we take you to a safe setting and find a new life.

Back then, in Massachusetts, life with the state employees, or the people they stick kids with meant more violence, starvation, rape, rape and more rape.

So...there was nothing to be done. Society would not support any such efforts.

...and BTW: if there were such a button today, I would push it...today.


Edited by Still (03/14/13 10:25 AM)
_________________________
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#428057 - 03/14/13 06:44 PM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Simple
Parents that cared enough to notice that the once outgoing young boy became a recluse and never had any friends. Cared enough to talk to me and find out what was wrong, and told me that it was ok, that they loved me and wanted to fix things.s
MMM parents that were not so preocupied with their own lives and their own crap.
Fairly simple I would think

Martin
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#428058 - 03/14/13 06:45 PM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
DavoSwim Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 324
Loc: Iowa, USA
This is a very interesting question, and one that I have pondered seriously for a long time. For me to have revealed that I was a victim, I first would have had to have an adult confidante with whom I would have felt safe revealing my secret. This could have been a doctor, a teacher, parent of a friend, friend of my parents or someone else. In order to for an adult have been a confidante, I would have needed to have an existing, healthy, secure relationship with that person. I'm not sure that anyone can train people to be mentors in that regard. That would just come from adults knowing that their interactions with kids can have powerful repercussions, both good and bad. It also means that the relationship has to be in place prior to any revelations.In addition, I would have had to believe that things like this do happen, the right thing to do is to tell, and I would have had to feel safe in telling. This is where education can be useful. Society needs to recognize that significant number of boys (1 in 6) are victimized. Teachers, doctors, coaches, and other adults who interact with kids need training in recognizing signs of abuse, and they need to be taught how to act if they suspect abuse, and what to do when they come across incidences of abuse. Kids also need to know what to do if they are victims. In school, kids are taught how to be safe in case of a fire ( stop-drop-roll) and they need to be taught what to do before any abuse takes place.
The critical piece of this puzzle is the actual revelation - what would have been necessary for me to tell. The worst thing to do is to sit down with a kid and ask questions - that is too much like an interrogation. It would be too easy to lie and deny everything. It would be easier to reveal being a victim if we were doing something else - playing catch, playing cards, washing a car - some activity where I felt that the mentor and I were working together towards a final goal. That would make it so much easier.
Finally, I would have wanted to hear these words - 1. It's not your fault, you didn't do anything to cause it. 2. We will make sure this will stop now and you will never be harmed again. 3. You are not gay. and 4. We love you, you are a good boy/man/person.

For me, it wouldn't even be necessary to know that the perp would be punished. Just that we will make sure you're safe from now on.

Dave

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#428060 - 03/14/13 07:08 PM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
ThisMan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/13
Posts: 767
Loc: upper south
Davo and Sugar,

It is a great question and the responses are as well. All have some form of credence to them. With the utmost respect for your views, I would avoid attaching sexual orientation to any person as a possible cause of rape.

...."3. You are not gay."

I had no idea what sex was in a concrete way during the years of my CSA. And my sexual preference had nothing to do with the ASA rapes. Nothing. Thanks, I needed to share my thoughts on that.
_________________________
For now we see through a glass, darkly.



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#428075 - 03/14/13 09:01 PM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
DavoSwim Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 324
Loc: Iowa, USA
@ThisMan - Thank you for your opinion. I hadn't looked at it like that. I just thought that because it felt good, and I reacted physiologically it had to mean something and that something was I was gay. I wish someone had said that a physiological reaction is in no way related to sexual orientation. Thanks Dave

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#428094 - 03/14/13 11:47 PM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1618
I think the times in the 1960's were so different than today. At least my life, lived in a community of immigrants or 1st generation Irish and Italian and the Wasp's which generally did not move in our circles. The church was the center of life--school, parent social activities, children activities, and the priest and nuns were revered beyond all others. They were part of our life. We feared, respected and loved them. What they said from the pulpit was God's word. So when in the cellar he spoke we bowed and said we said yes. I was a silent compliant child. So when he said I would be taken away if I told because my parents would not believe me (and I did not want to know otherwise that they did would not believe me). So how could I tell----today I still believe I did it so I could stay with my family and not be taken away as he told me--the police would not believe me and take me away and my parents would believe I was an ungrateful son. I was around 10/11---could I have done differently. Some say I was old enough to defend myself but I did not--so am I the guilty one. I do not want to believe I allowed it to happen but maybe I let it happened. It was not my parents that denied it, it was me.


Edited by KMCINVA (03/14/13 11:47 PM)

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#428095 - 03/14/13 11:48 PM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: whome]
Candu Offline


Registered: 06/30/12
Posts: 312
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: whome
Simple
Parents that cared enough to notice that the once outgoing young boy became a recluse and never had any friends. Cared enough to talk to me and find out what was wrong, and told me that it was ok, that they loved me and wanted to fix things.s
MMM parents that were not so preocupied with their own lives and their own crap.
Fairly simple I would think

Martin


My youngest niece was sexually abused by the father of one of her girlfriends that had a sleepover. My sister noticed something wrong the next day when her daugter got home. And she asked, and found out. She confronted the perp who turned himself in to the police. She supported and got help for my niece. All the way it should be when something like this happens.

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#428097 - 03/15/13 12:08 AM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6845
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: sugarbaby
If you kept your abuse a secret. What would have helped you to pursue treatment/seeking help at different developmental points?

What would have helped:

Prior to age 10?

from 10 - 15?

from 15 - 20?

from 20 - 30?

from 30 - 40?

etc....

Think about it. What would have/could have/might have pulled you out of the soul crushing weight of silence? Where could the process have started?

I'm curious because for me, being female, I have options. I have a local abuse place, OB/GYNs ask about it as standard practice, there are hotline posters on restroom walls.

I don't see this type of support for the guys....for the teen boys who are struggling.....or for the little guys.... and to be quite honest it pisses me off.

The best connection for males and help that I can think of is doctors. My son saw his Dr a little while back and they talked to him about sex in general(he is 16). BUT not abuse. Why? Probably because they don't know that they are (IMHO) probably the best possible link for male victims and help. OB/GYNs obviously know this so I looked at the Amer. Med. Assoc. web site for a while but I didn't find much about specific policy.

Since I am a Nursing student (career change) I have Physician professors. I'd like to bring it up to them and ask about policy but I need to know the consensus about what would be helpful. Maybe I am totally off base with the Dr link.

Tell me what you think and ask other guys on here to also tell me.



That's a good question.

I was abused at a bunch of ages. At a very young age I had no capacity to separate what happened to me (csa) from the normal routines of life. If for example, at age 7, you had been abused for half of your brief life, how would you know how to see the abuse as something out of the ordinary.

So, young children have to be helped to understand the context of the abuse and why it was not a good thing. They have to be encouraged by wise counseling to understand and express anger. They don't have words for it, and so they must even be given the vocabulary. They could use dolls and stuff to act it out. That sounds good.

I have been told that I was very outgoing before abuse at a young age. Then I became very quiet. I was very much like the boy described in the book: Dibs In Search of Self. In my case a kind grandmother and 2nd grade teacher helped me a lot.

When I was horrifically abused at age 12, I had a number of symptoms, including social impairment, and communication impairment. These got worse and worse until I received counseling when I was 15. Even though the counselors didn't know what to say to me then, it somehow relieved the pressure and I started improving.

A book I've been reading, Psychological Trauma and the Developing Brain, by Stein, talks about how young children who receive abuse must be given positive training in overcoming the social problems resulting from abuse. This book makes a lot of sense to me. It describes what I had as complex PTSD with a lot of effects.

http://www.amazon.com/Psychological-Trauma-Developing-Brain-Neurologically/dp/0789017881/

Puffer



Edited by pufferfish (03/15/13 12:21 AM)

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#428112 - 03/15/13 02:02 AM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: DavoSwim]
crazy gecko Offline


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 309
Originally Posted By: DavoSwim
I wish someone had said that a physiological reaction is in no way related to sexual orientation. Thanks Dave

This is exactly what I meant when I said I wished someone could have explained my body's reaction to me...

If someone only explained to me that the body is programmed to respond to physical stimulation, I would not have lived half my childhood thinking that 1) I was gay*, and 2) I enjoyed/wanted to be abused. It would have seriously diminished the amount of shame and guilt I felt.

* Please don't see this as a homophobic statement. This is simply about the fear and confusion of a young (straight) boy growing up in an extremely homophobic society...
_________________________
I guess what I'm trying to say
Is whose life is it anyway because livin'
Living is the best revenge
You can play
-- Def Leppard

My Story, Part 2

My blog

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#428191 - 03/15/13 09:38 PM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
ThisMan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/13
Posts: 767
Loc: upper south
Davo, C G-

I understand completely what you say and felt the same sexual confusion growing up. Am I ? Am I not ? -use either gay or straight or bi... all of us have had the question. Actually thought it was settled until I found myself single at 46.

Appreciate you, guys.
_________________________
For now we see through a glass, darkly.



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#430813 - 04/10/13 10:45 PM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
sugarbaby Offline


Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 329
Wow! Thank you for all the responses! I will have to come back to read them more thoroughly. It's late and I just popped in to see what was going on on the F&F board.

My 'mission' .....even when I don't express it clearly.....is to make the societal conversation about the abuse of males the same as it is for women.

I have choices my H did not .....well he DID but they were not nearly as front and center.

ABUSE is ABUSE is ABUSE.....it makes no difference who the victim is.

FYI - I skip over parents and teachers for many reasons but mainly:
- parents, in some cases like with H, need education
- teachers/administrators are in a work culture that hides perps and to me a culture like that is a perp unto itself

More at a later date........


Edited by sugarbaby (04/10/13 10:50 PM)

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#430846 - 04/11/13 03:11 AM " [Re: sugarbaby]
lbcali1978 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/12
Posts: 217
"


Edited by lbcali1978 (04/29/13 12:02 AM)
_________________________
They said

Come home

I said

I'm confused and alone

They said

We understand

I found out they don't

I'll walk the path exactly how I've always done it

Alone

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#431938 - 04/21/13 11:04 AM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1963
Loc: durham, north england
Hi.

I'm afraid reading this topic, I find the confidence in "education in school" really worrying. i understand that for people (of both genders), who were abused at home, school was a haven and the thought of education there or seeing a counseller was a good one, I'm sorry to say however that is not the case.

In my school, the teachers were so afraid the school was threatened with closure, they contributed to the bullying that turned into full on gang rape by essentially paying no attention, indeed I was frequently told it was my fault and "they are a very nice year" as for s/x education, well since i have just had lunch I will not describe some of the s/xual humiliations that I experienced in those classes when the teacher gave all the pupils leaflets to read then walked out of the room.

the problem with giving the power to teachers and educators is they have too much vested interest, even when they are not actually perpetrators themselves, there are still too many teachers who just see schools as a factory and just walk in and out of work each day not giving a dam about the kids, or worse, what the kids do to each other.

just as Obi said, the first thing is to educate people that boys can! be the victims of abuse (especially boys themselves). Particularly in terms of abuse by other kids, including that much protected group in our society, teenaged girls. Abusers are not all creepy old men in parks, and the sooner that is understood, the better.

another key point as well as the point of keeping silent, is people's understanding that "rape" doesn't just mean the legal deffinition. I never used the word to describe my experiences, indeed I found bullying hard enough to mention. Even though I was extremely close to my parents and still am, actually talking about what had been done to me at school was just inconceivable since it was so alien as to be in another language. For example, i remember when I was 14 mentioning that a girl at school said she liked me. My mum loved this, and asked me many questions about her, did I like her etc. I couldn't have explained to my mum at that point what! said girl had been doing at the time, it just would've been clearly wrong.

doctors might be a good point for this, though equally there is the problem that you only see the doctor when your ill. Myself, i'd love to see a formal contact system for men. After all, if a girl had been gang raped at school, she could always go to a center, talk to a medical professional etc, not to mention the fact the school would likely have a major investigation on their hands. not so boys unfortunately.

Another thing that would've helped me in my late teens to early twenties, was some relationship advice. One of the biggest and most irritating things about being male is the expectations about finding relationships. I gave it time, I waited, and nothing happened, and still I found my genophobia so much at odds with those around me. i wouldn't make s/xual jokes, i'd become embarrassed, I'd dislike touch, and this felt alien, wrong, completely out of context. Even though my friends were not the sort of men who talked about relationships in crude terms, I still couldn't shake the feeling there was something wrong with me, and the universal "give it time" attitude didn't help.

if a woman showed such genophobia, society cuts her a break, indeed I remember one of the old James bond books in which one of the girls has similar symtoms that Bond is understanding over, but because she is a woman he sees it as acceptable, and the relationship works because he! is prepared to go at her pace.

not so a man with genophobia, your seen as outdated and weerd, or having some ridiculous religious prejudice or other, and often people (especially women actually), see this as a situation for mockery.

Again, I have no idea what would help hear, other than perhaps an understanding professional of some sort. it took a severe shock, unrequited love and a lot of pain to force me to deal with my abuse at 25, and I'm still doing it five years later, but I wouldn't recommend that method to anyone.

Luke.

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#431940 - 04/21/13 11:48 AM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: sugarbaby
FYI - I skip over parents and teachers for many reasons but mainly:
- parents, in some cases like with H, need education
- teachers/administrators are in a work culture that hides perps and to me a culture like that is a perp unto itself


Haven't been on this thread in a while, but I'm glad you brought up the work culture. Particularly interesting - and discouraging - you've found it prevalent 40 years after my high school CSA.

The understanding I've achieved is that, like the CSA, much of it was about power. The perp had been one of the charter teachers and eventually became the head of the guidance dept. No underling would challenge his "activities" until it became so indiscreet and outrageous they had no choice but to fire him.

But, in that culture, there was no follow up with his victims. It was more like relief they could finally sweep it under the rug.

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#432565 - 04/26/13 07:11 PM Re: Question for the guys...... [Re: sugarbaby]
sugarbaby Offline


Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 329
Thank you again for all the points you all have made.

I have to find a channel for my frustration. I can't not advocate for men, teen, boys who are in all your shoes. It's just not who I am. But I need to be a kind of a 'silent partner' because I can't make H a poster boy.

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