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#401158 - 06/21/12 12:06 PM Re: What do you wish other people knew about ASA [Re: J.Bytendorp]
WriterKeith Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 951
Loc: southern California
I hope my words here are taken with the understanding that I want to help.

I wish we, the men of the MS community, would take the lead in bringing the topic of ASA out of the shadows. We need to hear more about it, we need to learn more about it, and that's not happening because ASAs do not feel safe talking about...even here.

Pop culture has the majority of us buying into the notion that, "ASAs are lesser men or lack the masculine traits and that is what rendered them vulnerable to rape or assault." Therefore, we are unintentionally re-victimizing, ostracizing, and silencing ASAs. This empowers perpetrators. While comedians have audiences roaring with laughter over ASA punchlines, perps are wringing their hands in delight. Few ASAs would stand alone and speak up against that kind of mob mentality, and it's pretty much how the general public deals with the matter. To some degree, we reflect that behavior here in our own MS community.

I was a boy, a CSA, less than 4 feet tall when I was molested each Saturday by my father. My own mother said it was my fault, that I should have defended myself, that I must have "done something to entice it." Can you imagine the things that are said to an Adult Survivor of Assault or Abuse?

We need to HEAR and SEE ASAs, so we may ALL be educated on the matter, so that WE may include them and support them, and, most of all, to prevent future incidents. ASAs have to take the initiative and courage to step up and speak out, but they cannot do this without a VISIBLE AND INCLUSIVE FORUM, especially in our MS community where they are safe, respected, and surrounded.

I believe it is important that they be blended into the CSA forums and discussion rather than relegated 'to the outskirts of town' and isolated from CSAs. We CSAs have a LOT to learn from ASAs, and even more to learn about ASAs. ASAs most definitely need a place to share where they are heard and respected, and I believe the key is not to isolate them but to address the issues of MS CSAs who lack compassion and respect for our ASAs.

....and we CSAs need to be men enough to speak up if ever we witness an ASA being addressed disrespectfully in a CSA-dominated discussion. ASA issues pinpoint and magnify the most sensitive CSA symptoms. The guilt/shame/blame issues come to the forefront, and some CSAs respond by "lashing out" and trivializing rather than "dealing with."

Thank you for tending to the needs of our ASA members of our community! [u][/u]
_________________________
"A burned bridge can be a gift; it prevents us from returning to a place we should have never been."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JfvAPZGjds

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#401272 - 06/22/12 03:56 AM Re: What do you wish other people knew about ASA [Re: WriterKeith]
TheTwoOfUs Offline


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 149
Loc: USA
Thank-you for writing this, Keith.

Can't say more than that right now.
_________________________
Matthew

Adapt. Overcome. Survive.

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#401526 - 06/24/12 10:57 AM Re: What do you wish other people knew about ASA [Re: J.Bytendorp]
theredhairedcrow Offline


Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 20
Loc: Germany
I know the deadline has passed, but I wanted to post anyway just in case some else wants to read, or we can have further discussion on:

I wish more people understand that as a man who, honestly now, I'm not sure if I am gay or bisexual, that just because that is my sexual orientation I did not ask for or deserve to be gang-raped by soldiers when I was nineteen. My sexuality has no impact on how being a survivor should be viewed, as if being gay is evidence I some how wanted or enjoyed it.

Additionally, I wish people would understand that some adult males who continue to allow themselves to be abused by other men are often survivors of childhood abuse who do not know what to do with or relegate their feelings. Some may ask for it or accept it, but it is still hurting them in a way, whether they happen to admit it or not. Some may laugh about it, but inside they are still dying. I know so many like that.

I wish people would understand how we may desparately need and want love, want to have a relationship, express and receive affection sometimes. In this same vein, I know it is part of having difficulty dividing affectionate touches from sexual touches, because we were forced and confused by childhood abuse.

Like others have expressed: huge trust, touching and control issues. I can barely give or receive a hug from my son, who is the light of life, and it was utter agony to see the confusion in his face when he was younger.

This is a really, really big issue for me, and I hope those here can understand, but I am a writer and many of my characters are gay or are in gay situations or lifestyles. It is reflective of my own life, just as the stories often address adult men dealing with the after effects of abuse. One of the biggest problems I have, I must admit, and I've been vilified by some other writers for it, is these writers who portray male characters enjoying rape, or showing relationships as rape or non-com sex but where the man eventually submits, as being the average or norm in gay relationships. Often it is often portrayed that ejaculation means 'wanting it' and then the person will be submiss and fall in love into what was effectively their rapist. I know some may just say this is fiction, their fantasy, but some people believe it and it affects how they treat those who have really been abused!

I wish people, even rape groups and supporters and sorry some of the dreaded feminists who disbelieve men who've been raped as having the same negative aftereffects, would understand rape is terrible for anyone. After I was gang-raped I was referred by a well-meaning therapist to a rape survivor group. I was treated far worse by those women than any other place I've ever been or by those I've told. I was treated like filth, as told my presence was offensive. I attempted suicide after that and spend many more months in a psych hospital and it inhibited me from telling anyone or trying to get help for almost a decade.
_________________________
"Always be kinder than necessary, you never know what someone is going through."-Anonymous Quote

My website, Songs of the Universal Vagabond, http://redhaircrow.com/

My story on MS forums: http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=390668#Post390668

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#401576 - 06/24/12 05:07 PM Re: What do you wish other people knew about ASA [Re: theredhairedcrow]
WriterKeith Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 951
Loc: southern California
Originally Posted By: theredhairedcrow
After I was gang-raped I was referred by a well-meaning therapist to a rape survivor group. I was treated far worse by those women than any other place I've ever been or by those I've told. I was treated like filth, as told my presence was offensive. I attempted suicide after that and spend many more months in a psych hospital and it inhibited me from telling anyone or trying to get help for almost a decade.


RHC, my jaw dropped when I reached this statement. I too was referred to a women's rape group to deal with my PTSD issues, the result of my being restrained, tortured, and raped by my father throughout my childhood. Hard to believe that, in the 21st century, 'professional' medical practices would refer male rape survivors to a women's rape group.

Your post is one of the most honest and eloquent posts I've seen on the site. Please post frequently, as you contribute a part of the conversation long overlooked.
_________________________
"A burned bridge can be a gift; it prevents us from returning to a place we should have never been."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JfvAPZGjds

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#401624 - 06/24/12 11:57 PM Re: What do you wish other people knew about ASA [Re: theredhairedcrow]
CruxFidelis Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: theredhairedcrow

I wish people, even rape groups and supporters and sorry some of the dreaded feminists who disbelieve men who've been raped as having the same negative aftereffects, would understand rape is terrible for anyone. After I was gang-raped I was referred by a well-meaning therapist to a rape survivor group. I was treated far worse by those women than any other place I've ever been or by those I've told. I was treated like filth, as told my presence was offensive. I attempted suicide after that and spend many more months in a psych hospital and it inhibited me from telling anyone or trying to get help for almost a decade.


I am so sorry you had to go through that in addition to the rape, which is horrible enough by itself. It is cruel whenever a survivor receives even more abuse but this time, it is abuse under the label of "professional help" and a "support group." When the "help" offered to survivors is more like abuse, who would be surprised if it is a hindrance to receiving more help.

It kind of bugs me that the field of advocacy for sexual abuse/assault victims seems to be synonymous with the feminist movement. Even a lot of the rhetoric aimed at male survivors seems to be geared toward the idea that there is somehow something wrong with a man wanting to be strong, powerful, and in control of himself. My T is always saying that I need to be more in touch with my feelings and accept that it is OK to be vulnerable. I guess he is trying to help me to understand that being raped doesn't make me less of a man, but why do I have to be a whiny little pansy in order to get that point? I don't know. Maybe this is a topic for a different thread.

I have heard from a lot of gay survivors that being gay adds another layer of guilt onto the experience of assault, because there is this idea that because one is gay they must have somehow wanted it. Which doesn't make any sense. Not all straight women are attracted to all men, yet it isn't assumed that since a women is straight, she must have "enjoyed" or "wanted" to be raped by a man. So many double standards.
_________________________
“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

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#401661 - 06/25/12 10:32 AM * [Re: J.Bytendorp]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/28/13 06:02 PM)

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#401728 - 06/26/12 02:25 AM Re: What do you wish other people knew about ASA [Re: theredhairedcrow]
TheTwoOfUs Offline


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 149
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: theredhairedcrow
After I was gang-raped I was referred by a well-meaning therapist to a rape survivor group. I was treated far worse by those women than any other place I've ever been or by those I've told. I was treated like filth, as told my presence was offensive. I attempted suicide after that and spend many more months in a psych hospital and it inhibited me from telling anyone or trying to get help for almost a decade.


And this is EXACTLY why I held out for over a year about even DEALING with the rape. This is EXACTLY why I just about needed to be dragged by the arm into a therapist's office, and this is EXACTLY why I have NEVER tried to actually find one of these 'support' groups! This is it EXACTLY.

*sighs*

I'm so so SO sorry you had to deal with that kind of crap. It just makes an already bad situation even worse. The entire proffessional community really needs to start treating this issue with the same kind of seriousness as they treat the females. They don't send girls to a boys' support group for CSA, then why the HELL are they sending men to a women's support group for ASA?! This is simple logic!

I don't know. This has been a hot topic for me lately, so I have been trying to limit my posting on it. My own T openly stated he wasn't a specialist in my "area" but that he would try his best and that I could feel free to drop him at any time. And then went on to tell me that he would try to help me but that he is also looking to try and find a "specialist" to deal with me.

Rargh! And this guy is so far the ONLY one we've been to that I'm even partially comfortable in front of. Seriously. I feel like I'm taking the scraps left over from the evening meal because "at least it's something and something is better than nothing."

It pisses me off. Why the hell should we have to take hand-me-downs or less-than-we-need just because of our gender. No excuse. None. Society needs to get off it's collective duff and face the music eventually.

I was told very recently that I must not have fought hard enough if "let" them do that to me/us.

What the HELL?! I'm barely walking, mine and my sis's medical records could fill a couple of three inch binders from this assault, and someone - ANYONE - dares to even SUGGEST that I might not have fought 'hard enough', let alone suggest that I *LET* anyone do it?!

I quite literally decked the guy in the mouth. I knocked him right over off his feet before I left. I lost my temper. I keep expecting the cops to show up but they haven't yet, so maybe he won't be bothering to call them. I don't know. But I have about had it up to here with people treating this issue as a fucking joke or trying to sweep it under the rug.

There will be NO recognition if we don't TALK about it. So I have started to try and talk about it, at least a little bit. I know stuff like what was said to me will be par for the course for a while, but this particular individual KNEW better. He's known me for thirty fucking years of my life.

I wish to hell that anyone who hears the words "I was raped" out of someone's mouth would shut the hell up and LISTEN! Especially if those words are coming out of a man's mouth - we DON'T admit that crap easily or carelessly! If we're telling someone, it's because we have a huge amount of trust in them, that is sticking our necks WAY out there to be chopped off!

Sorry. I'll shut this off now. I think I'm ranting, and I sincerely apologize if I have been. Just very frustrated with this lately. I feel as though we are told on one hand to open our mouths and talk about it and then on the other hand the second we do we get slapped across the face and told that we aren't SUPPOSED to talk about it.

I think this is another thing that should go into the list of things I wish people knew about ASA. There are so damn many conflicting signals out there that at least for me, it's hard to tell what end is up and what end is down, and it's damn hard to figure out who I can trust enough to talk to, and it's confusing as HELL to figure out when I should talk and I when I should just shut up and put up with it.... *sighs*

Shutting up now.
_________________________
Matthew

Adapt. Overcome. Survive.

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#401795 - 06/26/12 02:30 PM Re: What do you wish other people knew about ASA [Re: TheTwoOfUs]
Tyr Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 180
today is a ROUGH day. I just want to cry. I... got into it a bit with my therapist who thought he was being supportive by talking about CSA and I shut him down. I firmly said NO

Its not the same and dont talk to me like a 5 yr old boy who is sitting ina therapist office pointing at a no no spot on a doll.

The guys that raped me were adult cowards with low level cunning and would absolutely lose a one on one fight with in person.

adult male rape is VIOLENT more often than not.
It is not being molested.
It was Rape. someones penis went in me without my consent.
thats not just getting felt up for a popsicle.

grrr sorry I agree with twoofus... i have no more faith in the MH system. It doesnt fix anything. its not even worth it to engage
_________________________
Once you hear the details of victory, it is hard to distinguish it from a defeat.

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#401855 - 06/26/12 11:56 PM Re: What do you wish other people knew about ASA [Re: Tyr]
CruxFidelis Offline


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Tyr
today is a ROUGH day. I just want to cry. I... got into it a bit with my therapist who thought he was being supportive by talking about CSA and I shut him down. I firmly said NO

Its not the same and dont talk to me like a 5 yr old boy who is sitting ina therapist office pointing at a no no spot on a doll.

The guys that raped me were adult cowards with low level cunning and would absolutely lose a one on one fight with in person.

adult male rape is VIOLENT more often than not.
It is not being molested.
It was Rape. someones penis went in me without my consent.
thats not just getting felt up for a popsicle.

grrr sorry I agree with twoofus... i have no more faith in the MH system. It doesnt fix anything. its not even worth it to engage


I can relate to a lot of what you've said here. I was raped by one guy and not a group, but I have thought a lot about how if I didn't have the type of medical issues I have, I could have taken him on. He was out of shape and the reason why he was able to do what he did was because of his position of being a healthcare worker, and also the fact that I was too weak to defend myself at that point in my life. There were other points in my life where I was athletic and could have taken him on no problem. I could see how, if you were attacked by a group of people, you would go over the scenario of being attacked by someone individually. Even if I was really in shape I couldn't imagine having to defend myself against a group of marauders.

I can also understand taking offense at a therapist trying to fit your experience into a different "box." I know most of the survivors my T works with have CSA and there have been times when I think he has tried to approach my issues in this way. They don't know any other way of doing things and I can understand why you would be angry, especially if he knows your story well and has been working with you for awhile. The methods he proably employed probably would work well for a CSA survivor but for you, it wasn't what you needed because your problems are fundamentally different.

I personally think my therapist is a good guy and I respect the fact that he really tries to help me. The fact that he believes me and affirms me in spite of what has happened means a lot... but I don't think he always has the right tools in his toolbox for the job. It's like going to a dentist's office and having him try to fix a cavity with a hot glue gun.
_________________________
“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

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#401895 - 06/27/12 08:07 AM Re: What do you wish other people knew about ASA [Re: J.Bytendorp]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
When a man who has been through CSA states that his abuse is worse than mine I cringe. When a man who has been through ASA says his abuse is worse than the man who has experienced CSA I also cringe.

In the last couple of years I have cringed quite often.

I honestly do not know why anyone would categorize pain like that.

I have felt slighted by comments made in the last few years and have seen men who went through ASA slight those who experienced CSA.

I do not think either are necessary or should be tolerated. What one wants from others one must be willing to give. And above all else I would certainly think respect and understanding would be at the top of the list.

Perhaps I am as naive as some have told me.


Daryl


Edited by prisonerID (06/27/12 12:43 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling
_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

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