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#427274 - 03/06/13 09:17 AM Re: Pedophilia and problems in treatment [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
Canuck Offline


Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 56
Loc: CA, United States
Originally Posted By: Ken Singer, LCSW
Quote:
So I come here today, and see another shrink making exactly the same kinds excuses that the perps use against me and the other victims.

And most galling of all, he's urging "discussion that won't polarize folks around here." and instructing: "Let's be civil"

No. I won't be civil: You're contributing to the problem, Ken.



I am advocating for civil discussion among the readers here. In no way am I saying that anyone should be swayed by arguments that therapists or perpetrators make. It is only to keep the focus, whether someone is taking a stance one way or another, to be respectful to each other. That's all.

i


Awesome deflect.

You're contributing to the problem, Ken.

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#427275 - 03/06/13 09:20 AM Re: Pedophilia and problems in treatment [Re: catfish86]
Canuck Offline


Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 56
Loc: CA, United States
Maybe I missed it:

What did Dr. Fred Berlin say when he was asked what his motive was for studying pedophilia so intently?

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#427276 - 03/06/13 09:24 AM Re: Pedophilia and problems in treatment [Re: unhappycamper]
peroperic2009 Online   content
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3607
Loc: South-East Europe
I know that this is very disturbing theme for discussion and could be more than triggering so please take care for yourself and try not to read it if there is risk of emerging many negative emotions, flashbacks and similar...

Originally Posted By: unhappycamper
Dr. Berlin failed to mention the fact that child sexual abuse, whether committed by certified "pedophiles" or by plain, old people-who-like-to-fuck-children, is ALWAYS harmful to the victim, and the victim is very young. This is true whether it's a first offense or a 100th offense, whether the perpetrator can help it or not. IMHO that makes CSA qualitatively different from other "phenomena" he discusses.

Berlin also ignores the elaborate and pains-taking schemes child-molesters use, time after time, to zero in on their victims, cut them out of the herd, and keep them isolated.


And eventually he says something stunningly ignorant:

"I find it difficult to imagine that a large group of people, people in institutions—people who work hard and tend to have values that we respect—would get together and with clear vision say, 'We’re going to put protecting our brand ahead of kids.' I think that if we stop and think about it, that is really a stretch."

Apparently he's never heard of the Boy Scouts of America, the Catholic Church, or (though the interview is appended to an article about Jerry Sandusky) Penn State.

John

Don't know what all Dr. Berlin said but I really wonder about possibility of treatment and what are main difficulties and if there is some progress in this field.
It is obvious that catching abusers after damage is done many times doesn't work to protect us. I would like to hear that there is much more done...

Originally Posted By: Ken Singer, LCSW
The typical child molester is not necessarily a pedophile. You can google or wiki the definition of pedophilia or sociopathy and see that it does not apply to most or many people who sexually abuse children.

I've checked Wikipedia's definition of sociopathy (actually psychopathy) and there something I spotted that sounds more than terrible for me:
"A 2011 study of conditional releases for Canadian male federal offenders found that psychopathy was related to more violent and non-violent offences but not more sexual offences. For child molesters, psychopathy was associated with more offences. Despite "their extensive criminal histories and high recidivism rate", psychopaths showed "a great proficiency in persuading parole boards to release them into the community." It is purported that high-psychopathy offenders (both sexual and non-sexual offenders) are about 2.5 times more likely to be granted conditional release compared to non-psychopathic offenders."

here is the source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy#cite_note-59
https://people.ok.ubc.ca/stporter/Public...20offenders.pdf

I don't know what to say about this alarming finding frown

Pero
_________________________
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#427292 - 03/06/13 12:35 PM Re: Pedophilia and problems in treatment [Re: catfish86]
Jacob S Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 594
My thoughts on this thread:

I think that understanding the differences and overlaps between pedophiles, sociopaths, etc, are important in the long run for improving society's ability to prevent more abuse.

I think dispassionate academic discussions are a useful tool in parsing through complicated subjects.

I think emotion adds drive to a topic but clouds reason. I think when one is in the middle of a hurting situation, one needs to watch oneself regarding lashing out at others.

I think its important that people are able to speak their mind, no matter what their opinion, without being afraid that they are going to get the internet equivalent of being attacked. That doesn't foster a safe environment or useful conversation. It certainly makes me think twice about sharing.
_________________________
Like a spent gladiator
crawling in the colosseum dust
who can count on his remaining limbs
all the people he can trust.
Like the one who stands behind him
cheering him on
Estatic when he stands defiant,
wild with abandon when he's gone

just stay alive.
do whatever you need to.
you are worth it.

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#427353 - 03/06/13 11:44 PM Re: Pedophilia and problems in treatment [Re: catfish86]
Canuck Offline


Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 56
Loc: CA, United States
I think its important that people are able to speak their mind, no matter what their opinion, without being afraid that they are going to get the internet equivalent of being attacked. That doesn't foster a safe environment or useful conversation. It certainly makes me think twice about sharing.

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#427363 - 03/07/13 07:21 AM Re: Pedophilia and problems in treatment [Re: Canuck]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6419
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: Canuck
I think its important that people are able to speak their mind, no matter what their opinion, without being afraid that they are going to get the internet equivalent of being attacked. That doesn't foster a safe environment or useful conversation. It certainly makes me think twice about sharing.


Well I hope that dissent and varying angles won't cause you to stop posting.

I want to point out one other aspect of the thread if I may...

The NAMBLA types come to this site and look for bits of "evidence" in the form of our posts, stories, etc., that justify their "position." They seek evidence to support the "SEE??? SEE THAT??? He liked it" garbage...even if they take it out of context. Or even, "oh....poor little guy had a shitty family and a nice man came along to..."

Just wanted to point that out while the thread continues.

Hi NAMBA-types!..you slack-jawed, drooling, kiddie-porn, jerk-offs. Your life is a mistake!
_________________________
This nation has lost its mind!

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#427370 - 03/07/13 09:31 AM Re: Pedophilia and problems in treatment [Re: catfish86]
Jacob S Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 594
Still -- crazy people will always be able to find evidence for their delusions. Its not worth it to change what we say for their sake, because they will always find something to twist.

Canuck -- is your repeating what I said word for word just your way of agreeing with me or there something I'm missing? It just confused me a little.
_________________________
Like a spent gladiator
crawling in the colosseum dust
who can count on his remaining limbs
all the people he can trust.
Like the one who stands behind him
cheering him on
Estatic when he stands defiant,
wild with abandon when he's gone

just stay alive.
do whatever you need to.
you are worth it.

Top
#427376 - 03/07/13 11:10 AM Re: Pedophilia and problems in treatment [Re: catfish86]
unhappycamper Offline


Registered: 10/21/11
Posts: 611
Loc: VA
I'm focusing on Dr. Berlin's interview article, which is all I criticized in the earlier post. As I read it, I had a discouraging sense of "deja lu" [= already read]. It reminded me of the diversionary tactics used by Catholic church clergy and lawyers when yet another abuse scandal comes at them.

And I think the whole attempt to paint CSA as just another possibly acceptable "sexual orientation" is dangerously NAMBLA-like. The NAMBLA line was that their "boy-loving" did no harm to children--it was "society's" response that harmed the children. How many times have we heard that from priests and other men when they're caught abusing kids?

Also, calling CSA (even with a fancy Greek name) just another "orientation" is a calumny on others who are struggling against prejudice towards their sexual orientations.

John

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#427484 - 03/08/13 12:24 PM Re: Pedophilia and problems in treatment [Re: Jacob S]
Canuck Offline


Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 56
Loc: CA, United States
Originally Posted By: Jacob S
Still -- crazy people will always be able to find evidence for their delusions. Its not worth it to change what we say for their sake, because they will always find something to twist.

Canuck -- is your repeating what I said word for word just your way of agreeing with me or there something I'm missing? It just confused me a little.


Jacob:

I was hoping you'd read what you wrote.

"Its not worth it to change what we say for their sake, because they will always find something to twist."

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#427487 - 03/08/13 01:20 PM Re: Pedophilia and problems in treatment [Re: catfish86]
Jacob S Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 594
.


Edited by Jacob S (03/23/13 06:01 PM)
_________________________
Like a spent gladiator
crawling in the colosseum dust
who can count on his remaining limbs
all the people he can trust.
Like the one who stands behind him
cheering him on
Estatic when he stands defiant,
wild with abandon when he's gone

just stay alive.
do whatever you need to.
you are worth it.

Top
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