Newest Members
Serenity40, markm, hans32, SilentNoLonger, masryt
12132 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
casey (45), flaredsoul (31), Madcap (29), susie24 (59)
Who's Online
6 registered (learning2remember, CafeMan, I Want 2 Thrive, 3 invisible), 65 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12132 Members
73 Forums
62561 Topics
438347 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#425566 - 02/17/13 01:14 PM What would you tell your boy about sexual abuse?
TheBobcatAgain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 493
Loc: AZ, U.S.A.
Everyone here probably has an opinion on what and when to tell children (in this case, boys) about sexual abuse. I don't know if there's information or laws on this subject elsewhere, but I feel if the world listened to sexual abuse survivors - in essence, EXPERTS on sexual abuse - we could better protect our kids from being abused and/or abusing others.

1. At what age would you explain sex and/or sexual abuse to your boy? Bear in mind that some of us were sexually abused as far back as we can remember. At what age can the boy start to protect himself in addition to his parent's protection?

2. Is an explanation of sexual intercourse necessary to explain sexual abuse? Should the boy know all the different ways he can be abused (i.e., someone wanting him to perform fellatio when he doesn't understand what that is)?

3. What do you tell your son about nudism? Some boys go skinny-dipping, or bathe together. At what age would you tell your boy to be cautious about exhibiting himself to others? (Remember - if he shows his nudity to a girl, for instance, he could get in a lot of trouble.)

4. Explaining that he shouldn't be touched in his private areas by a stranger is easy - but we know that very often, an abuser is a friend or teacher or clergyman...or a family member. How do you explain that doctors, for example, can touch him (if necessary), but friends and family shouldn't?

5. How do you tell your boy never to submit to abuse, even if this means that he might get beaten up, or threatened, or coerced in some other manner, and neither you nor anyone else is there to protect him?

6. What would you tell your boy about voyeurism/pornography?

7. What would you tell your boy about not touching others? Sometimes I think we overlook the possibility of our boy abusing others because he doesn't understand that it's bad. What would you tell him about touching other children's genitals, or snapping girls' bras, or talking about another child's genitals, etc.? A lot of that can be construed legally as abuse these days, I think.

I'm sure there are other questions, but if we could organize our responses to these questions into a instructional document for parents/guardians - from US, the EXPERTS - perhaps we could help protect the children of tomorrow.

I would REALLY appreciate your input on this topic. Let's please be respectful of everyone's opinion, even if you don't agree with it. Thanks!

Mods: If this topic needs to be moved to another forum, please go ahead and move it. Thanks.

Your loving brother, as always,

Bobcat
_________________________
You don't have to be perfect to be wonderful.

Top
#425570 - 02/17/13 01:46 PM Re: What would you tell your boy about sexual abuse? [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6317
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Generally --- Biggest thing for his mother and I was to remove social taboos regarding body-parts. A penis ought not be ANY more difficult to discuss than his nose.

If there's shame or bashfulness surrounding all those areas that must be known by their real name, perps have some fuel. Take away the open conversation about the parts, the perps don't have that particular advantage.

I don't know why, but my son developed a bashfulness regarding his privates as he grew older...not that private parts come up in conversation after trying to program him to be conversent.

But as for as when we began; As soon as he was learning to talk. "Naming of Parts" became as standard as naming of things around the house.

5 - Talks about due privacy, bad-touch, coercion, perps, what CSA actually IS and such....that's been on-going including these days at 14yo.

VULNERABILITY - I discuss ways people have been flat-out raped at high-school alcohol parties when they pass-out. I point out the realities of certain vulnerabilities and have doen so since about 6-ish. He was a scout, and his mind runs at a mile-a-minute. He always forecasted vulnerable situations and verbalized them to me and peers.

He also has been taught some rather devastating fight methods against adults, and has been officially allowed to let-loose on any adult when he feels in danger.

As for #3: I'm of the european mentality. Shame over ones body is wrong, but no one is licensed to request any state of undress and YOU (boy) are required to be mindful of others around you.

As a kid, my fam was very chill with nudity. No harsh or outrageous reactions to it at all. Within my house there was nothing inappropriate cept for the violence (fully unrelated).

During our frequent and very long sailing trips up and down the coast, I never hesitated to go swimming with nothing...walk a remote beach as such, and fresh-water bathe on-deck...till i reached about 15. I did not hit puberty till 15.5. Then I did not want to bathe on-deck, but the swimming and beach stuff was still chill.

My sisters had NO part of it. They never...and I never saw them naked once in my entire life.

I do not believe that nudity makes anyone more vulnerable to any perp. Perps gonna perp if other factors of power are in place. If you have an open and conversent child, you have a safe child.

My kids exhibit very reasonable and consistent modesty at home and around others. I'm quite happy with that.

I teach and discuss situations of "vulnerability," and make them realize certain scenarios they want to avoid. Again, loss of control from drugs and alcohol make you a very appealing and easy target for a scumbag or other drunk peer.

They know the blame is fuly on the perps and never on the victim NO MATTER WHAT!!!!

We keep these discussions just as normal and un-eventful as talking about the economy or school, bullies, stupid teachers, skateboarding, etc.

They will actually say to me or peers; "what's that man doing in this park?" just so others are aware of the potential hazard.


Edited by Still (02/17/13 03:38 PM)
_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

Top
#425576 - 02/17/13 02:05 PM Re: What would you tell your boy about sexual abuse? [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
jay75 Offline


Registered: 07/23/12
Posts: 145
Bobcat,

I am the father of 4 boys I too am interested to hear the replies to your questions.

1) With my oldest heading to college soon I took a very strong stance when it came to stranger danger. I was very upfront with him about sex and sexual abuse but unfortunately I started the talks when he was 11, I now realize that is not young enough. I have NEVER DISCLOSED TO MY CHILDREN.

2) I did not explain every type of sexual abuse but i did reinforce what sex was and any type of touch that includes private areas was abusive and should be reported to me or my wife.

3) I explained to him that NO PERSON SHOULD EVER touch him inappropriately regardless of familial ties. we also have a very open dialogue with our doctor who also explained good touch bad touch during a physical with my wife and I present in the room so there was no room for confusion. after the physicals once he got older and we were no longer present in the room we would drill him as to exactly what took place during the physical. and of course reinforcing that we would never be upset with him if anything ever did happen.We try to maintain a very open dialogue with her children.

4) In our home there is no reason anyone should ever be nude. we are very clear that your naked body is yours and yours alone and that no time should anyone see your nude body outside of marriage. locker room situations we have no control of but we try to reinforce for them to use the best judgement.

5) this is a very hard one. What I have told my son in the past is that no one has the ability to do you harm him or our family for telling us anything. I hope I have instilled in him a sense of strength and courage that will enable him to fight for himself when not in the presence of his parents or anyone else that can help him.

6) I have told my son that pronography typically leads to sexual dysfunctions and give him a warped sense of what sexuality actually is. I have also told him the pornography isn't real and of course have tried to reinforce that sex should only be involved when 2 people love each other as any reasonable parents would. In hopes that he will listen to our guidance.

7) I have always told my children to keep their hands to themselves. and that the rope swings both ways. I have never had a problem discussing any of these things with my children because I do not want them to him subject to the things that I have gone through, so yes I have told them that if they were to ever touch somebody else that they would go to jail be expelled from school and all sorts of other repercussions.

I know that I may have gone wrong in my dealings with my children concerning these issues. but I'm fine tuning at this point and handling things a little differently with my younger children. my oldest we still maintain a very open dialogue about all these issues. I am a very hyper protective parent my children are the ones who have never been to a sleepover who have never had a babysitter. I know my approach is some what unrealistic but I try to be as honest as possible without disclosing.

-Jay-
_________________________
"Those are not your sins" A wise man

Top
#425592 - 02/17/13 03:48 PM Re: What would you tell your boy about sexual abuse? [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1871
Loc: durham, north england
I don't have children myself, nor do I even want them, so the education side of this iis a relatively academic discussion. However, there is one question I would like to ask while discussing education. how do you give your child knolidge and an adult atitude without making them an absolute social outcast among other kids?
At the age of ten I was given a very frank and adult discussion right down to the functions of the sperm and ovum. I was told about mastervation, I was told what s/x was. While my parents (both at different times), made clear that this was an emotional, as well as physical thing, I was distinctly taught to feel and think nothing shamefull of it, just as I'd never been taught to be shamefull about my body, albeit never to be seen outside undressed because it would not be private. In fact the discussions about s/x much less pubity weren't really that different to two many conversations we'd had much as Still describes, years before at the age of eight I'd asked my mum quite openly if women had testicles, and while my mum impressed on me that this wasn't a "polite" question to ask someone else, she did give me my answer.

so, I was pretty grown up about the hole thing, indeed when I was ten I remember sharing a cabin with a boy a year younger than me at an activity week during the summer. One comment he made indicated he knew nothing about any of the things I'd been told, but I consciously decided not to say anything else since the fact he didn't know wasn't that important and I just supposed his own parents would tell him when he got to be ten.

Then what happens? I go to secondary school, and literally everyone of both genders talks about constantly, ---- often even incorrectly, and are near to being obsessed with the subject! heck, it even used to piss me off that nobody used the propper scientific names for things.

I was not interested in it, it was just biology and something I supposed I'd experience later, like shaving, ---- but everyone else! couldn't leave things alone, and this just got worse as people got older indeed any ipotentially decent people I knew at school at eleven were behaving like idiots and making ridiculous s/xual jokes at age twelve.

Then when I was thirteen and the school actually started s/x education classes things got even worse, indeed some of the worst abuse incidents I had happened in those classes, including one particularly vile episode with a tampon.

Did I tell any of this to my parents? how the hell could I. I assumed everyone experienced the same thing, including my brother who was at a different school, heck I was too embarrassed even to mention the word "bullying" let alone detail any incidents. Indeed, I remember my mum's pleasure when i said a girl at school said she liked me, ---- without telling my mum said girl had been forceably fondling my penis at the time. How the hell could! I say anything?

Sorry, stepping back now.

My point is, that how what good does education actually do when the other kids don't have it. Admittedly my situation was extreme since said school was a hell hole, however what good is all the education in the world when so many teenagers are less educated but more absolutely obsessed.

What is the point of for instance teaching your kids to repsect bounderies if their bounderies won't be respected by others their own age? what is the point of teaching kids not to feel shame about their boddies when other kids use exposure as a humiliation or an insult?

I'm not sure if there is an answer to this, but it just irritates me when everyone talks about the wonders of education and knolidge and how people can avoid abuse just by having the right attitude, hell I had a better atittude about my own body and the entire subject of s/x when I was ten than I have ever had since. I admit this might partly be because of what abuse happened to me during! s/x education lessons in school, which was in fairness more due to the teacher simply spending five minutes talking then walking out for the rest of the lesson, (I learnt to dread those).

I'm sorry if this is harsh, I know there are! people who just didnt' know, heck I remember one incident when i was 7 when an eighteen year old cousin got me to touch his penis, (though I quite inocently told my parents on that occasion and we were never left alone together again), but that was nothing compared to whatt happened later, after! I had all this wonderfull knolidge and good attitude.

Top
#425599 - 02/17/13 04:15 PM Re: What would you tell your boy about sexual abuse? [Re: dark empathy]
jay75 Offline


Registered: 07/23/12
Posts: 145
DarkEmpathy,

Im sorry to read of your experiance, I dont believe I have an answer to that. I guess all we can do is educate our own children the best as possible. I am in no way jaded by the thought that educating my children will somehow prevent an incident from occurring. I guess I can only offer them the information that I have and the knowledge that I have and give them guidance and hope for the best. Your question is exactly why I stated in my previous post that I am a hyper protective parent. I trust no one with my children and yes they have suffered because of my paranoia. they have missed out on birthday party sleepovers camp outs with friends and their families and my wife and I have gone without nights alone or dinners at restaurants by ourselves.

You my friend are 100 percent correct! and I could not agree with you more.




"What is the point of for instance teaching your kids to repsect bounderies if their bounderies won't be respected by others their own age? what is the point of teaching kids not to feel shame about their boddies when other kids use exposure as a humiliation or an insult?

I'm not sure if there is an answer to this, but it just irritates me when everyone talks about the wonders of education and knolidge and how people can avoid abuse just by having the right attitude," Darkempathy..

-Jay-
_________________________
"Those are not your sins" A wise man

Top
#425605 - 02/17/13 05:07 PM Re: What would you tell your boy about sexual abuse? [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
Frankly, I WOULDN'T tell my son "never submit to abuse even if it means you get beaten up or harmed." Detached retinas and ruptured spleens and crushed testicles don't respond to therapy.

My boy is 4. We use proper terminology for all body parts. There is frequent casual nudity in the home - just leaving the door open when changing, etc - in order to reinforce that everyone has a body and it's nothing to be ashamed of. We have already told him that if anyone ever touches him in a manner that feels bad he is to tell us at once - no matter who they are or what they say. Fairly soon that will be specifically refined to "the underpants area and anybody else's."

When he's old enough to have a chance of it mattering, he'll get some really devastating and dirty self-defense tricks, ie keys into the eye.

But, frankly, he will also be told that if all normal instincts and avoidance have failed, that running and screaming and fighting has failed, that contact has been made and something bad is already beginning.... frankly, go limp, go blank, and let it happen. Do anything, say anything, promise anything to stay alive.... then tell.

That's REALLY heavy shit that will have to wait for, like, 12ish. But I'm serious; if someone already has physical control over your kid and is all "do this or else"... if your kid gets the "or else", they'll just get abused after too. Grim thoughts but it's a grim topic.

The basic mechanics of sex should be explained by no later then 9.

As for nudity, skinny-dipping... it would be explained as having to be age-segregated, and even then, if it ever felt wrong, LEAVE.

Above all, the kids will be pre-armed with excuses that position my wife and I as the "bad guys" - snooping domineering helicopter parents. Sorry, I can't go there, my dad's coming in 10 minutes. I can't sit on your lap, these are new pants and if they get wrinkled my mom will kill me. My dad already called me twice, I'm so late for getting home. And so on.


Matt
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

Top
#425636 - 02/17/13 11:37 PM Re: What would you tell your boy about sexual abuse? [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
TheBobcatAgain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 493
Loc: AZ, U.S.A.
Thank you, my brothers, for your replies so far. My hope is that this topic will not only provide some answers to those survivors who already have, or are planning to have, children of their own, but also to society in general. Everyone has an idea of what and when to tell children about abuse, but if enough of our opinions mesh together, could we create a "guide as written by survivors of abuse"? Just a thought.

Anyway, thanks again, bros! smile

Your loving brother, as always,

Bobcat
_________________________
You don't have to be perfect to be wonderful.

Top
#425661 - 02/18/13 04:20 AM Re: What would you tell your boy about sexual abuse? [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1871
Loc: durham, north england
@bobcat, that was why I indeed did mention this point and I do hope that if any guide or information was created it'd be included so that parents would be more aware that no, it's not just! a question of educating your kids to say no to strangers or avoid the creepy old man in the park, other kids are just as dangerous if not more so.

@jay, it wasn't just in the context of what you might call potential social abuse at sleepovers etc, heck I had no friends at the time so never experienced anything like that. One thing about me is that it was my very good! attitude that alienated me, simply because other kids at school did not have it. Teenaged boys are taught that s/xual jokes, crude humour etc is how to be accepted in the group, and anyone with a more mature attitude will be an outcast at the very least, just because that's the way society encouragers teenagers to be. then there is the point that so many teenaged girls are quite aware of this, and will tell filthy jokes one moment and s/xually humiliate a boy, then as soon as it comes to talking to an adult with accuse boys of sexisum or abuse because "they're girls!" and should be protected and have their boundaries respected by anyone, and woe betide the boy who even looks! at a girl the wrong way.

heck, I was once severely! yelled at for punching a girl in the chest, ---- never mind what she was doing.

I am quite aware my own situation was exceptional, but how do you protect vulnerable boys from their own peers, when they have to go to school?
.

Top
#425673 - 02/18/13 08:26 AM Re: What would you tell your boy about sexual abuse? [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3568
Loc: South-East Europe
Hi Bobcat,
this is very nice and important topic!
I was touched inappropriately by other older boys as six year kid and never discussed this with my parents, based on some tries and curiosity shown at early age for sexual maters my parents dismissed my questions as terrible wrong and shameful and I gave up of talks about it at the end. I would never like to repeat same story with own child if I would have some.
So here are my thoughts about all this:
1. As soon as possible I would talk about sexual matters in educative manner and adapted to child's age. Off course at start I would spare them of details but with maturing talk could be more precious and direct. I find children much more capable in understanding and learning comparing to adults and I don't see any justified reasons for delaying educating them. They should know at least in general terms what is sex about...
2. I'm not sure that some specific and too detailed explanation of intercourse is needed at all, it is more about feelings and trust. Kids need to be able to recognize when such feelings show and what is source of those in case of abuse and they need to feel comfortable to reach for help or to share it with parents. For small kids talks about "private" parts could be enough...
3. I would like to be easy going with nudism with kids, they shouldn't be ashamed of naked body nor see it in some sexual light. I would not much talk about it but rather would like to share some intimacy (bathroom/toilets/swimming pools-cloths changing) and make them feel comfortable with selves.
4. Beside talks about touching by strangers it is very important to touch own kids and to hug them. They need to know to feel when some touch is good and when is something more than it is wanted. We can't much talk about it but rather with a lot of practice they would develop sense about it and it should come naturally. Kids should easy be able to sense if some touch is free and warm or if it is with some intention. General talk also would additionally help there and I would be very specific about all people that work with children, as perps tend to get involved into such places to be close to kids.
5. I would like to tell my kids that even if someone could beat or abuse them they should keep safe place in their hearts that can stay out of reach of others. Those were my thoughts as kid when I was involved with other boys, I knew that I'm doing something unwanted and wrong so I was keeping talking to self that I need to not give my mind and heart. They should keep their spirits safe and guarded to others. Many stories for children have such massages and kids can understand it I'm sure...
6. Related to pornography/voyeurism I would like to broad this and to include internet and smart phones here, it is easy to explain kids that there are evil people who are enjoying to see their naked pictures or to pretend that they are friends and actually they are complete strangers with evil intents using all those tools for easy access. Kids should know that internet is like jungle or highway with many risks around.
7. Beside usual talk about inappropriateness of such behavior I would like to learn own kids to protect other kids or animals if they would be threatened. Kids could very easily become small heroes, they just need to believe in something, why not to believe in love and good? Here is also very important touching and hugging them and showing affections in front of them, kids need to be in such environment to develop sensitivity and how to be gentle and kind. Pets could be very helpful here so kids could very easily learn to love and care for others...

I hope some other survivors would add their opinion/experience here!

Pero

_________________________
My story

Top
#425681 - 02/18/13 10:05 AM Re: What would you tell your boy about sexual abuse? [Re: dark empathy]
jay75 Offline


Registered: 07/23/12
Posts: 145
@Darkempathy,

Yeah, I understood your questions but I didnt have an answer for it so I was just adding info from my point of view. Im not sure you can protect young kids from their peers, and my extreem measures as a father my be futile. Sorry but I cant give a real answer, but I hope some one will.

-Jay-
_________________________
"Those are not your sins" A wise man

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.