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#425485 - 02/16/13 12:58 PM A little advice needed
jay75 Offline


Registered: 07/23/12
Posts: 145


I posted on the progress form about how I have been letting go of anger directed towards my father for not being there for me for not protecting me for abandonment. I outlined how I've been able to speak to him on the phone and be very cordial and civil. Well I'm in a different place today. I put aside time this summer so that myself and my family can go visit an elderly family member. My father caught wind of this and invited himself to meet us in the state that this family member lives in. I am in no way happy about this my stomach is in knots and I felt that anger boil to the surface. I have seen this man a total of 3 times in the last 22 years and every time I see him I am an absolute wreck, I end up with stomach issues before during and after the visit, it is always a very unpleasant experience for me.

I want to tell him that his presence is not needed nor is it desired, but I do not know how to approach the situation. On one hand I'd rather say go f*** yourself there is no way I'm going to meet with you, and on the other hand Who Am I to deny him the right to see his grandchildren. I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place right now and I do not know how to put my feelings aside AGAIN! Should I even have to put my feelings aside for him and for my children?

This is the second time I'm writing this post I have had to clean it up alot. The "F" bomb flows like water over my keypad when I'm this pissed.

another thing is I don't even know why I am concerned about his feelings why the f*** should I even care? but in some sick f****** way I do. this all just seems like way too much for me right now especially while this is all so raw.

So much for progress......

-Jay-

I know this post sounds somewhat childish I apologize.
_________________________
"Those are not your sins" A wise man

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#425489 - 02/16/13 02:16 PM Re: A little advice needed [Re: jay75]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1562
Loc: New England
Hey Jay,

Nothing childish about it. We're all angry. Many of us have had to distance ourselves from relatives to maintain our sanity. And many of us have a hard time putting OURSELVES ahead of someone else's feelings. Even when its someone who has shown little caring for us.

So let the F bombs crop. Then do what you need to, to keep YOURSELF sane and healthy. You deserve to be first sometimes.

Jude
_________________________
Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine.
Sheryl Crow

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#425496 - 02/16/13 06:37 PM Re: A little advice needed [Re: jay75]
thirteen Offline


Registered: 08/17/11
Posts: 44
Loc: sweden
My dad wasn't there much as I grew up. He is sorry about it and has apologized, he started of by saying that he's not very good when it comes to talk about feelings. He did it his way and we now have a much better relationship though we are still working on it.

I always wanted to be like him when I grew up, always wanted him to be proud of me and so on, and I always made the wrong decisions and ended up in the wrong places. So this was, although very weird and awkward, a good thing for me.

I'm saying this because I don't know what your story is with or without him but maybe ask yourself WHY you are angry? Because he wasn't around? Then, while you of course have the right to be angry, at least now he tries to be around. We all make mistakes and like I said I don't know your story so it's hard to say this without the chance it'll seem "bad" from your point of view.

Are you angry because the abandonement led to a fucked up life on your behalf? That's a bit of how it was for me, then again, sure it might have "helped" aim me in this direction, but it wasn't his fault. The abuse and other things I lived through wasn't because of him, so how can I blame him for that?

For not being around, yeah, I can. But hey, at least now he's changed. And with a child on the way, it seems that although I'm in a bad situation with all of this, my child will have a grandfather.

So, ask yourself why you are angry. If part of the anger is from things that aren't his fault, then MAYBE you might want to give him a second chance. Then again, even so, as Jude said you need to do what you need to do.

If he really "deserves" all your anger, or just enough of it, for you to not wanting to be around him, then that's the way it has to be, at least for now. Just make sure you don't regret it later when it's too late.

No matter what you do, take care and good luck

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#425503 - 02/16/13 09:52 PM Re: A little advice needed [Re: jay75]
txb Offline


Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 210
I don't really have any advice for dealing with the situation. But you said this:

Originally Posted By: jay75
Who Am I to deny him the right to see his grandchildren.


And i just think, what right does he have to see his grandchildren? Just because someone has your genes it doesn't give them any right to anything. You've seen him 3 times in 22 years. It's hardly like he's made an effort. I don't know the backstory of it all but is he even someone you want your children to meet? (I grew up without any grandparents - i believe most of them are still alive, but i've just never met them. It never bothered me.) Sounds like meeting him is just going to ruin your time away, so I'd go with the "go f*** yourself option". But like you said it's easier said than done. (and I don't think you sounded childish at all, I think you sounded perfectly reasonable)

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#425521 - 02/17/13 03:20 AM Re: A little advice needed [Re: jay75]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
Mixed bag here, Jay. Nor, in a quick read of some of your other posts, am I quite clear on the relationship with your father.

As far as his grandkids...well, they're YOUR kids, not his. What is real obvious is that you're a man of considerable conscience as a husband, father...and son.

Two of my own experiences.

Dad was a fun-loving, horny drunk. He left to marry a woman who treated me as one of her own.

That probably saved my sanity because I was stuck with the mommybitch who had custody of me...considerable drinking of her own, physical, verbal and emotional abuse. Eventually she and her third husband pretty much delivered me to my perp.

Dad found sobriety. And worked his program like no one I've ever met. Our relationship blossomed the last ten years of his life.

I haven't had anything to do with the mommybitch in almost 25 years. I imposed a no-contact restriction on her. And my reaction to her, John, was EXACTLY like yours. (I later discovered, clinically speaking, it's likely she's a textbook narcissist or NPD). She hadn't changed and as far as I'm concerned she can rot.


I can't advise you. I don't know your father's interest or lack of or the reasons. But, three times in 22 years? I'd like to know more about the nature of your phone convos with him and any insight you might have. If anything, imo, caring for yourself and your family is the priority. Your father is not.

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#425527 - 02/17/13 05:12 AM Re: A little advice needed [Re: jay75]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2018
Loc: durham, north england
Hi.

I agree absolutely with txb. if blood is thicker than water that's why it forms a scum on the top laugh.

Funnily enough, my dad actually was semi disowned by his father too, indeed I never even met the man though I know my dad spoke to him on the phone before he died, and would certainly much rather my dad was happy than he ended up ill because of some random old geezer. in fact on the rare occasions when he comes up in conversation my brother and I refer to my dad's parents by name, not as grand parents at all, indeed we didn't have any grand parents while we grew up and though we've met various aunts, uncles and cousins have very little in common with most of them and likely when our parents aren't around anymore wont see any of them again.

Your post also didn't sound childish at all, so no need to appologize.


Edited by dark empathy (02/17/13 05:19 AM)

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#425531 - 02/17/13 07:48 AM Re: A little advice needed [Re: jay75]
jay75 Offline


Registered: 07/23/12
Posts: 145
.
_________________________
"Those are not your sins" A wise man

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#425534 - 02/17/13 08:34 AM Re: A little advice needed [Re: jay75]
jay75 Offline


Registered: 07/23/12
Posts: 145
Hey guys,

first off thank you for the responses, it offered great insight into my delema. I know I did not go into my past dealings with my father so I'm going to throw some crap out there now. last night I did as Thirteen suggested try to figure out why I am so angry, well needless to say I did not have to dig too damn deep.

My father was both emotionally and verbally and physically abusive towards me. he often made comparisons between my brother and myself, I of course always came up with the short end of the stick. my brother was in all around athlete a man's man somebody my father could identify with. Me on the other hand I was a very sensitive 9 year old who just lost his mother she had passed away suddenly, my father detested me he would often refer to me as a little faggot, queer, cry baby so on and so forth. I think the verbal abuse was 1000 times worse than the physical abuse it hurt more and left deep scars. In a way, yes I do blame him for what happened to me I believe that it helped to condition me very much so to accept the abuse. I believe the way he treated me, made me believe that my abuser saw what my father saw in me (a little faggot) and so I believed it was my fault. long story short there are just so many layers to the story. I left home at 12 ran the streets with friends, drowned myself in alcohol and drugs. Never worried about any consequences because I would prefer to have been dead at that point. The last time I was with my father as a teenager he had what he considers a heart to heart discussion with me that included me getting slapped across the face repeatedly and him asking if I like girls or wanted suck a dick. That all came about because I showed great enthusiasm when the cable went out during a football game, and only a faggot would be happy about that.

Now I have 4 very smart well rounded sons. I'm pretty sure they are everything my father has ever wanted for himself or wish he had in me as a son. Yes I do see that he is making an effort to reconcile in some way but I do not believe it something I even want.

-Jay-
_________________________
"Those are not your sins" A wise man

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#425536 - 02/17/13 08:56 AM Re: A little advice needed [Re: jay75]
jay75 Offline


Registered: 07/23/12
Posts: 145
@Jude,
You are 100% right, im not sure why I care about his feelings I seem to care to much when he didnt care about me.. It is time to think about me! Thanks .

@Thirteen I posted above a little back story. Im glad you found common ground with your father. I know the importance of family and maybe one day I will get there... Thanks.

@Txb & Dark empathy Thanks for the words, your right, he has no right to see my kids. the truth is he gave that up a long time ago.

@Lancer, it's funny you bring up the nature of our phone calls and the conversations that we have. the conversations to say the least are very awkward he tries to engage me and I'm somewhat off putting with my answers. he will try to reminisce about the good old days and I'll slap in the face with what reality actually was. but at the same time I do have to admit it but I don't believe I hate the man I don't wish any ill will. I do know that I need time to process, accept and forgive before we are to meet again. Thanks

Thanks guys for sharing your experiences.

-Jay-
_________________________
"Those are not your sins" A wise man

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#425590 - 02/17/13 03:38 PM Re: A little advice needed [Re: jay75]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
Thanks for the addtl info Jay. Not unlike my mommybitch experience, so I'll expand on it as it might be what you're feeling.

What I struggled with before/after I cut her off was that, abusive as she was, she'd been the mother figure and a woman who was part of my history from Day One. It felt as though if I cut her off, I was cutting off a part of myself and that I should feel guilty about that.

I also realize today it was also part of her training/conditioning of me. She'd act hurt or somesuch just to reel me back in for another round...which sounds very similar to what you experienced with the calls. She'd even sometimes engage one or two of her girl buddies to call me. I knew what was up and, sometimes not so politely, hung up on them.

Strangely, it wasn't until I cut her off, weaned myself from the nostalgia (a T would call it grieving I guess), that I really started to process how abusive she'd truly been and the abusive events became clearer. And her manipulation became something I could feel, dread and avoid, not just clinically acknowledge.

fwiw, yeah, there's a part of me that wishes it could be different, that there must be something I can do to resolve it, etc., etc. But she'll never change without some serious psychiatric help (no chance of that) - as much as I might wish it - and the best I can do is get on with my life without her emotionally toxic bullshit.

In fact I cannot believe the similarities in our feelings and thought processes. It feels like you were telling my story. I rarely identify THIS closely with one of my brothers' stories, but you just nailed it.

One of my favorite movies is Bette Davis in "Now Voyager" in which she's the verbally/emotionally abused, bespectacaled daughter of a rigid old bat. Even when the old bat is squarely confronted in front of everyone by psychiatrist Claude Rains, it makes no difference. Davis gets treatment, goes on a cruise and comes back a ravishing Bette Davis. I particularly like it because, unlike "Mommy Dearest", a considerable portion of the movie is devoted to the emotional recovery of Davis' character.

That said, I think you have my answer - aw fuck it - on the whole thing and some considerable empathy.

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