Newest Members
BusterJones, Desperateforhelp, aniceguy, Green_Lantern, Safe11ride
12121 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
corvairman1 (43), marianne (44), son (35), speedy (31)
Who's Online
3 registered (3 invisible), 58 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12121 Members
73 Forums
62521 Topics
438141 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#424943 - 02/11/13 09:39 AM Frivolity
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6317
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Mike Lew's book and some other sources comment on "frivolous play." Namely that "the abused child cannot afford frivolous play."

I was fully there. I admired it in others but I never understood it after I was first attacked. I use to marvel at the other kids; "how can you just throw caution to the wind and act like that?"

I equated frivolity to foolishness...to 'letting my guard-down.'

I wished I could be like that, but it was only a wish. I always had my back to the wall and watched for the wolves.

Anyone else remember this? (or still there)
_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

Top
#424945 - 02/11/13 09:47 AM Re: Frivolity [Re: Still]
traveler Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3204
Loc: back in the USA
oh, yes - i played - but was very serious about it - guarded and often solitary and self-controlled. almost scripted and practiced and ritualistic in the degree of control that i needed. i admired and envied those who could just be totally impulsive and spontaneous. couldn't do it myself, though. never associated it with the CSA - but it makes sense.
lee
_________________________
We are often troubled, but not crushed;
sometimes in doubt, but never in despair;
there are many enemies, but we are never without a friend;
and though badly hurt at times, we are not destroyed.
- Paul, II Cor 4:8-9

Top
#424946 - 02/11/13 09:47 AM Re: Frivolity [Re: Still]
JoziSA Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/05/12
Posts: 144
Loc: Johannesburg, South Africa
I fully understand where you are coming from...

I became hyper vigilant, never could do anything spontaneous. I think I'm still like that. My guard was never let down, I missed out on all the fun stupid things kids/teenagers do. I remember it all, with regret and a heavy heart, you cannot get your childhood back.

Like yourself I wished I could have been like that, but I do realize that was how I survived, my mask protected me.
_________________________
Rees (JoziSA)
My Story and Blog www.kilimalesurvivor.wordpress.com

South African MALE SURVIVORS of Sexual Abuse
www.samsosa.org
If your mind can perceive it and your heart can believe it, YOU can achieve it.

Top
#424953 - 02/11/13 10:56 AM Re: Frivolity [Re: Still]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
Since my memories became real I've tried to push my son towards playing more and being even more carefree. We've built forts and I taught him how to climb trees; he was so proud of himself! It felt like I was actually creating more innocence in the world to counterbalance the poison.

But last night...

I was prepping him for bedtime and something he said distracted me, and when I turned back to what I was doing one of his very large dolls was DIRECTLY in my face, point-blank. It wasn't a doll, it was a face, a person right there touching me!!! Worst hyper-exaggerated startle response in a lifetime full of them and it happened in front of my boy in the middle of father/son time; he had to watch his daddy cry out, recoil, stop breathing then clutch his chest to calm down and stare off into nowhere. He asked what was wrong and I couldnt answer him and that scared the shit out of him, the look on his face... he was very concerned, something was wrong with daddy and playtime was over. And when I still couldn't talk I was inwardsly berating myself - DON'T FUCK THIS UP, IDIOT, DON'T GIVE HIM A BAD ASSOCIATION, DON'T BRING FEAR INTO HIS ROOM!!!! I pulled myself together, faked a smile, some bullshit about a boo-boo, he started smiling again.

They are so trusting. For better and for worse.

His play is fucking sure going to be frivolous and if for whatever reason it isn't it won't be because of my bullshit stepping on his happiness.


Matt
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

Top
#424954 - 02/11/13 11:17 AM Re: Frivolity [Re: Still]
Tanis2105 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 46
Loc: SW Florida
Hi Still,

Until I read your post I had never really looked at it that way. I played but I remember being very guarded and aware of my environment and never played games that involved touching like tag or football(until High school)To this day I'm still very vigilant and untrusting but working on it. Thank you for posting.

Kevin


Edited by Tanis2105 (02/11/13 11:17 AM)
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsnCq24hu9w

Top
#424962 - 02/11/13 01:57 PM Re: Frivolity [Re: Still]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6317
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
I have employed frivolous play as a key indicator of my kids emotional health. I've had a lot of agreement and buy-in from Ts and others that it IS in fact an indicator worth much. There's a lot of things you can't do in crazy-laughing, nuts-o play if yer suffering from depression or similar.

I can happily say that my two kids are crazy, laughing, dain-bramaged nut-cases. Its nice to see it up close and personal...and to be invested in it. And then i see some of their friends or peers who act more like I did as a kid.
_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

Top
#424988 - 02/11/13 04:58 PM Re: Frivolity [Re: Still]
SmartShadow Offline


Registered: 11/27/12
Posts: 134
Loc: Washington State
Wow, and just when I thought there was nothing more for me to think about. Lol

Well when I read Matt's reply, I sobered up fast. I am realy sory you went through that in front of your son.

I supose I have tryed to protect my kids from the damage I react out of. My reactions have not always been the best. The disproportional anger that has come out of me towards my kids has some times been triggered by there inappropriate behavior or attitudes. I just started to teach my kids at a young age that I can get it wrong. That why I got upset was because there was a problem that needed to be addressed, but my overreaction was not there fault and not something they deserved or that was right in any way. That in some cases my reaction was even a biger problem then what originally needed to be addressed. And that I was sorry and would they be willing to forgive me. I supose this owning my stuff and not allowing my kids to take the blame for what is my bad behavior, has given us all the ability to be a bit more open and honest about what is happening under the waterline. My kids never once fail to forgive me they always were so relieved to have the relationship restored. And it made it easy for them to own there stuff.

As far as the frivolous play gose I have a 12 year old kid in me that loves to come out and play, stir up truble in all the right ways. Loves to have fun. I supose because of this I have in some ways grown up with my kids. It is a bit sad that this part of me is now more and more with out friends to play with. My youngest is now 18 and moving more and more towards adult ambitions.
He some time gets kid like and we play, spar,banter, hang in the foolish just for fun. But more and more I find that I am alone in this younger part of me. I hope to play like this with grand kids someday. I would hang out in this state all the time if I could. Bit hard on the marriage. smile

I supose when my csa took me out this part of me was able to break off intact.
It has never been able to grow up, frozen at that age. Like the lost boys in Peter Pan.
I suppose I should be thankful for breaking apart this part of me was not abused.
The part of me that has was abused is not coping to well. He is a mess.




Edited by SmartShadow (02/11/13 05:08 PM)

Top
#424989 - 02/11/13 05:21 PM Re: Frivolity [Re: Still]
newground Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 645
Loc: michigan
play is not so bad as long as it is planned but yea spontaneous is never good. I have learned to do better but that is still not very spontaneous. I'm with all you guys I kinda envy the ones who can do it
_________________________
Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee. let me then tow to pieces, while still chasing thee, thou damned whale! Thus, I give up the spear!"
Herman Melville

Top
#424997 - 02/11/13 06:59 PM Re: Frivolity [Re: Still]
traveler Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3204
Loc: back in the USA
i haven't thought of this in years - decades maybe:

when i was a kid, my younger brothers would roll around on the floor ans wrestle and be all over each other like a litter of puppies. i was the oldest of 4. i could never do that. it just wasn't in my vocabulary or skill set. i didn't know how. sometimes my step-dad and the real dad of the 2 youngest (half)brothers - would be down there with them. i NEVER joined in with him. and he never grabbed or touched me in play that i can remember. touch between us was reserved for in private. and it meant one of 2 things - physical punishment/abuse or "accidental" contact that turned into something worse and half-ambiguously crossed the line into CSA.

in the neigborhood, at school and at scouts, other boys could play that way - casual rough-housing - and usually it was innocent and harmless. i could never do that. it was like i was chained or turned to stone. i was always the outsider - observing...

when i grew up, got married and had my own kids, i was still not able to do that kind of rough & tumble play with my children. i could read to them and play board games or with legos or dolls, animals or action figures. but i was still too self-conscious, too inhibited, paralyzed by whatever had happened in my childhood that i still hadn't even remembered, to play that involved lots of physical contact.

lee
_________________________
We are often troubled, but not crushed;
sometimes in doubt, but never in despair;
there are many enemies, but we are never without a friend;
and though badly hurt at times, we are not destroyed.
- Paul, II Cor 4:8-9

Top
#425317 - 02/15/13 01:25 AM Re: Frivolity [Re: Still]
onlyakid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1536
Loc: New Jersey
Still, I'm so happy to hear your kids are doing well and are crazy fun loving nuts. Me I was never one for frivolous play. Even before the abuse I remember not really enjoying playing in the neighborhood. If they were playing some game in the woods that would have been to risky for me. I know there was lots of arguments between my parents and I know that my father had a few incidents of anger issues to the point that after they separated we had to put a two sided lock that required a key from the inside so it couldn't be unlocked by breaking the window and unlocking it from the inside. I guess this explains the weirdness of my brother when my dad died to this day he doesn't have a grave marker. He always kept saying he'd get around to it and its been 10 years last month that he died.
_________________________
"Being with people that understand you...Priceless"

"and i don't want the world to see me, cause i don't think that they'd understand"

"You don't know what love is...you just do as your told"

"My life has changed. What you take as a simple thing, is not so simple for me anymore"


Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.