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#424832 - 02/10/13 10:43 AM Angry at Devout "Friend"
seikei Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/12
Posts: 94
It's very hard for me to reconcile my religion considering all the horrible things that happened to me. I have heard scriptures pertaining to the necessity of suffering before, but I still cannot find myself to believe that a loving "God" would allow such a thing. Involvement in my Catholic religion has always been a difficult aspect of my life. My extremely devout "friend" does not help matters.

Yesterday we spoke on the phone and he wanted me to go to an Ash Wednesday mass next week. The mass is at 8AM and I told him that it was too early for me and that I did not want to attend. He then went on to berate me saying things like "Oh, I see, you don't want to go and be with God because it's too early." I ignored the outburst, said good night and hung up. Now I am feeling a swirl of emotions, mostly anger and guilt...I suppose that was his aim, which angers me even more that he would try to manipulate me like that.

He has always been rather extremist in his views (in my view) but I had always put with it in favor of a need for companionship. After what occurred last night I just don't know anymore. I've been rethinking our "friendship" for a while now, and have blocked communication from him for the time being. Despite being so upstanding about his beliefs, he is quite clingy and it will be very difficult to end the relationship on a whim.

Considering I am in recovery, it really upsets me when people state what a horrible person I am for not being the star Catholic I'm supposed to be. It might just be my youth, but I hold very liberal views that do not fall in line with church doctrine. I live in a very conservative part of the country so its really hard to reconcile my views when there is so much scorn.

I realize I'm jumping around...so the the point of my post is that perhaps one day I will become the star Catholic people want me to be, but considering that I'm still trying to make peace with what happened to me, as well as work towards my future at the same time, the last thing I need is someone chastising me for my lack of religiosity. As always, I would just like some help understanding the place where I am right now. Am I right to want this? Thoughts?

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#424836 - 02/10/13 11:45 AM Re: Angry at Devout "Friend" [Re: seikei]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1039
Seikei,

You are correct. It is no one's business but yours whether or not you go to an early mass for a holy day of obligation or not. Anyone who tries to shame you into conforming to his/her notions should be shown the door, and you were right to hang up on your friend.

You might also want to point out that while Ash Wednesday may be a holy day of obligation, the act of receiving the ashes is merely a Sacramental, not a Sacrament in itself... and many churches around the country give out ashes without the mass, so you can drop by church at your convenience that day, if you so choose (maybe call ahead tomorrow and see what the policy is).

Be yourself; be strong in who you feel you are; and don't let anyone push you around. You are feeling the right things and handling it correctly -- in my opinion, anyway.

Cant
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#424837 - 02/10/13 12:04 PM Re: Angry at Devout "Friend" [Re: seikei]
seikei Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/12
Posts: 94
Thanks for your thoughts Can't. At this point I think I just want to take a break from him. If don't want to debate with him only because he will never admiy that he is wrong. Call it self confidence gone ary to put it nicely. People can believe whatever they want, he though chooses to be very obnoxious with his beliefs and it's really getting on my nerves.

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#424838 - 02/10/13 12:37 PM Re: Angry at Devout "Friend" [Re: seikei]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1928
Loc: durham, north england
Whenever I meet people who claime suffering brings us closer to God or lets us develope moral virtue or some other rubbish, I've felt an overwhelming urge to thump them soundly and say "well so, any closer to God then?"

Indeed, while I would never actually do this I have sometimes offered some quite sarcastic responses to people with those sorts of beliefes, since I find the arrogance of someone telling someone else that their suffering is good to be ridiculously offensive.

One lady for instance who claimed "oh, disability can be so beautifull" I actually shocked severely by saying "Well poke your eyes out and see how beautifull you find it!"

Ultimately I agree with cant remember, we are quite good enough at evaluating our own lives badly without the church or anyone else doing it for us, plus of course to me, as a long term student of philosophy I'd never accept any view until I'd both thought and meditated upon it very deeply, whatever! organization said so, and even more especially an organization like the Catholic or protestant church who have a less than perfect record when it comes to pressing their views on others.

Indeed quite ironically all the people I've met in my life who I'd describe as distinctly holy, ---- of various faiths (including Islam, buhdism and Judeism as well as various brands of christianity), have tended to be anything but overzealous, perhaps because they know where they! stand in relation to the devine and thus don't feel a need to force their beliefs upon others.

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#424849 - 02/10/13 02:18 PM Re: Angry at Devout "Friend" [Re: seikei]
seikei Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/12
Posts: 94
Thanks for your thoughts Dark Empathy. I too have to wonder why if people are firm with their beliefs why they feel the need to try and make everyone believe what they do. With my "friend" I don't think its really a case of wanting to push his extremely devout dogma on me, but rather a desire to upshow others. "Oh look at me, look how devout and virtous Iam, and look what a sinner/adulterer/fornicator you are. He's always looking for ways to try and make himself look surperior. This is just the latest way. I don't doubt there are Catholics out there who truly and sincerely value their belief system, he is not one of them...its just a ploy to try and look down on others.

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#424850 - 02/10/13 02:19 PM Re: Angry at Devout "Friend" [Re: seikei]
seikei Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/12
Posts: 94
He also has a very profound distates for protestants. He's stated before how he wishes he could burn people at the stake if they aren't catholic.

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#424853 - 02/10/13 03:54 PM Re: Angry at Devout "Friend" [Re: seikei]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1928
Loc: durham, north england
I'd be tempted to ask him what he thought of all the renaesance popes, ---- indeed if your looking for some world class fornicators look no further, (apparently one had a child by his own daughter).

one serious question however, is if your friend holds such dogmatic and dare I say it immoral beliefs, why is what he says important! still more if his motivation for such beliefs is as selfish as you suggest.

You are certainly right there are! reasonable catholics, indeed one of the people I can think of who I've met who I would describe as having a sense of holiness about him was! a catholic priest, but he certainly had no such dogmatic opinions especially about protestants.

One person I know, while not actually a religious nutter is someone who argues with everyone, who regards the entire world as against him, indeed if you dislike a book he likes or visa versa he thinks your physically attacking him and becomes defensive overbearing and angry.

i once said, when he expressed his opinion on copying cds, "oh he's made up his mind, so there's no point discussing it further, that is that" and when he attempted to carry on the conersation I said "I'm not discussing this with you since you'll get angry" where upon a friend of mine voiced the opinion "harsh, but fair!"

This particular chap is someone who's good opinion I do not value, since i know him not to have any, so frankly if he disagrees with me or gets angry at me I don't care, since I don't value what he thinks.

Perhaps, if your concerned about matters of catholic faith you could considder finding a more reasonable catholic to talk to who's opinions make sense, and simply treating this "friend" of yours as someone who's opinions don't matter to you since they obviously don't have any reasonable grounding, and since he planely does not think very much of your friendship if he's making you feel so badly about yourself. As I said, we're quite good enough at doing that on our own.

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#424855 - 02/10/13 04:18 PM Re: Angry at Devout "Friend" [Re: seikei]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6367
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: seikei
it really upsets me when people state what a horrible person I am for not being the star Catholic I'm supposed to be.


Still's #1 Rule for Survival: People suck! Stop thinking or hoping otherwise. The bible says NOTHING bout putting ANY faith in ANY people or their contrived "valid churches."

If you dont bleev me, ask my ex. She'll tell yah I've said that since the day we met.
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#424856 - 02/10/13 04:21 PM Re: Angry at Devout "Friend" [Re: seikei]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6367
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
And if I need validation, watch my testimony on the 700 Club.
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#424858 - 02/10/13 04:32 PM Re: Angry at Devout "Friend" [Re: seikei]
LazyPirate Offline


Registered: 01/03/13
Posts: 106
Loc: Ontario
Originally Posted By: seikei
He also has a very profound distates for protestants. He's stated before how he wishes he could burn people at the stake if they aren't catholic.


Sounds like he isn't a friend at all, or even a decent human for that matter. People like that are what has put me off of religion all together. I find that many of the most devoutly religious I've met are the most racist, sexist, homophobic, intolerant & close to pure evil that there is.

Obviously not true in all cases.
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The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson

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